Iron Warriors and Salamanders 3.0 list crafting

[Galron]

OK, note this is more work in progress rather than a set list as like most of us I am still figuring this whole thing out. Also note I am well over my 3k mark and I am trying to figure out how to drop it. 

We will start with this is my Loyalist Iron Warriors led by Khyr Valen at the battle of Paramar. Going for stuff I like and want in the list. Weirdly, like the big guy from Mountain Miniatures said in one of his videos, doing it on paper is tedious but oddly enough when you put everything together, you generally end up with enough slots.  Also note I am doing this out of my head because I dont have time at home to sit in front of a computer and type these things.

 

Preator-Khyr-Paragon Blade, archeotech pistol, nunceo vox.

 Apex Detachment: Hammer of Olympia

 Tyrant Terminators x5 with o-scope

 ***Dominators x5 - ***Paragon of Battle- I priced them with thunder hammers and added 25 points since at the time of this writing they havent been released in legacies

 Breachers x20 power fist and 4 las cutters-  vex nunceo

***Tactical Marines x20 power fist, vex, nunceo. ***Expendable

Spartan with lascannons and heavy bolter on pintle

 

***Warsmith centurion ***Logistical Benefit

Sicarion Punisher Locutus full heavy bolter loadout

Aux detachment- Iron Fire

Arquator Bombard tank 

Arquator Bombard tank

3x Quadmortar rapiers

Heavy Support Squad x10 Auto Cannons (Will be replaced with iron Havocs once legacies comes out) vex, nunceo

Vindicator

 

Centurion Boarding Shield, power fist

Armored Support Detachment

Sicarion Punisher Full Heavy Bolter Loadout

Vindicator

Vindicator

 

Now originally, I also had a Leviathan with storm Cannons and a Typhon siege tank but this all brought me to 4225 points so they were the easiest to drop at 700 and some change. Now I am trying to figure out what else I should get rid of.

 

Side question since the book is clear as mud, do I need a praetor for each apex detachment? As in one for the extra consuls, one for the Hammer of Olympia, one for the retinue detachment etc.?

Edited August 6 by Galron

[Shard of Magnus]

As I understand, you get one apex detachment unlocked for filling the high command slot. Using special assignment to take another praetor/high command in a command slot wouldn’t open up another apex detachment.  Book is at home so I can’t double check if there are other constraints.

[MDops]

16 hours ago, Shard of Magnus said:

Using special assignment to take another praetor/high command in a command slot wouldn’t open up another apex detachment.

Can confirm this point

 

From what i can tell you have the following:

- crusade detachment

- Aux - Armoured support

- Aux - IronFire

- Apex - hammer of Olympia.

 

That being said it looks like you have enough points for the detachment:

Warsmith/Praetor for the apex

Centurion for the two Aux

 

With all that said, you have quite the quantity of armor with 3, maybe 4 units that can score at least 1 point. Is this something of a concern for you?

Edited August 1 by MDops
Clarity and more detail

[Galron]

To be honest, I have no idea lol. I would like more infantry but I think I can cut a vindicator and a Sicarian and would still be over 3k, I didnt have time last night to look things over, grr wife always wanting to spend time <grumble grumble>. Without having played a game, the idea is to suppress and destroy the opponent so my own minimal infantry can simply walk onto objectives relatively unopposed while the Dominators go do any damage to enemy hard points that needs to be done. 20 man units added up the points quickly. I could just as easily drop them to 10 man units. I have 6-7k of IW to draw on with enough grey legion, pile of shame, and a 3d printer to build anything I dont have, but "need" lol. This was an early themed list to get going and try and bring back a mix of my old list sans leviathan. Hoping Shrapnel weapons make a come back simply because the concept is cool and Irecently built the Sicarians with the idea that they are Shrapnel wagons. I might can drop the Spartan to a Land Raider which will save some points. Ill have to see what the transport capacity is. 

[MDops]

Right so scrolling through your list I would split the vehicles up as follows:

 

Anti tank

- Spartan

- Vindicators × 3

 

Anti infantry 

- Arquitor × 2

- Quad mortars 

- Sicarian × 2

 

Your looking for about 500 points of savings. Personally I think you might get more work out of the sicarians ove r the Arquitor. And dropping a vindicator as well would put you under if not closer to your pts limit. Will be interesting to see how far off the mark you are for the dominators and if that cleans things up

 

Side note. New recruit has the core units loaded at time of writing. Might help while on the move

 

Edited August 2 by MDops

[Galron]

Haha, I was going to say the same thing about new recruit. Its early but I like the way they sorted it out. Doesnt look like they have the auxiliary detachments worked out yet or else I am doing it wrong. 

EDIT:

As i Submitted it, the Legacy doc came out. So Kyr is gone, as is my boy Golg despite the fact the old BoC Preator in termy armor is Golg. I was off quite a bit on the Dominators but they also gained I think. 255 points but now expendable (1). They kept all the options they used to have.

 

Iron Havocs on the other hand... I think I may have to go with a Veteran Heavy Support Squad although they are different roles. 135 base and 25 per dude and autocannons are not free upgrades anymore and cost the same as the heavy supports have to pay, they simply ignore cover and I dont know yet whether thats worth 5 extra points per guy. The Heavy Vet Support on the other hand get an extra wound. 

 

HAHA Night Lords still get their 20 man Tartaros squad. Might be tempted to do a meme list with them now just because and they got their twin claw raptors back. 

Edited August 4 by Galron

[Galron]

I have a little better grasp on the directions I want to go with my various two main legions. Still undecided on my Night Lords as I found a box with tanks in it I had forgotten about. All that does is stir the water though. So I want to go with a more WW1 storm the trenches artillery theme with my Iron Warriors, go figure. Most of the above but I havent redone the points since Legacy came out.

 

My new army for this edition whose paint scheme I am tightening up on is going to be Salamanders. I want to do a storm force of them, however unlike the Iron Warriors, they arent themed around artillery and mass infantry. The idea is a unit from an old book series called "The Fleet" which, short story long, was a series of books following a war between the humans and these weasel-like aliens written by a bunch of prominent sci-fi writers at the time(1980s) and usually they were one off short stories but some of them followed characters or units from book to book as the war progressed. One such unit presented was the idea of a Drop Reaction Company, a unit that was sent in to fill gaps that no other units could fill, take on the hardest missions at the drop of a dime, etc etc. Extremely high casualty rates to the point that assignment was volunteer only, but promotion was rapid, you got to play with the newest(untested) toys and were typically beyond the tip of the spear. I kind of liked this idea and I have a short story in mind of how it would be used in 30k as a kind of trouble shooters,

 

Currently My list is as follows trying to come up with a format that makes sense with 30ks force org

 

 

Primary crusade detachment

Praetor in Cata armor drake scale, forged thunder hammer

 

Centurion forged power fist- Armored fist Detachment

***Centurion forged thunder hammer drake scale, charger - Tactical support detachment

 

***Tacs x10 nunceo vox ***Logistical benefit

tacs x10 nunceo vox

Breachers x10 2 grav guns nunceo vox, vexilla

Rhinos with Havoc x1 

Drop pod(flamer tactical support) 

 

Apex detachment-Vanguard-whatever its called

Fire drakes x5 ***Logistical Benefit (5 in a bag from ages ago)

Veteran Breachers x10 with 5 lightning claws and a power fist, vexilla, nunceo vox(riding in a caestus) 285

 

Warlord Detachment

Cerberus(I have one primed, Im lacking anti-tank, might as well use it)

 

Armored Fist Detachment

Land Raider (left over from my old Dark Angels)

Caestus Assault Ram(I have had one collecting dust since Badab came out) 290

 

Tactical Support Detachment

Tactical Support Squad x5 with flamers with sergeant with the improved flamer(built)

Deathstorm Drop Pod-I have 3 of these, might as well use one for something

 

***Logistical benefit-Pyroclasts x10 nunceovox (5 still in a bag)

 The tacs and breachers will work in tandem with the various assault/burninator units in storming the objectives. The praetor and firedrakes ride in a land raider, the centurion and whatever terminators I end up with get dropped off in the Ram. The tac support squad with flamers is kind of a cheap pinch hitter unit that goes where needed to throw some status effects and maybe a wound or two. Deathstorm acts as early area denial somewhere that I either have poor coverage or the opponent has high concentration of troops.

The characters and the breachers are the only models I dont currently have and I can 3D print most if not all of them. Painting is another subject as only a tac squad is currently 97% of the way painted as a means to test the scheme out. I didnt want to go neon green like so many Salamanders, but I didnt want to go dull Raptors olive either so I went somewhere in the middle. I'll be experimenting with different flame effects as the units get more elite. 

Comes out to 2997 at this time.

Slowly naming detachments the proper names as I get around to it through editiing.

Also realized I can get away with one less Centurion as basic centurions bring 2 aux detachments and not just one like I thought. So I might specialize one into a prime champion. I am aware my HQs need some work, but then I dont have any figures for my HQs so I have time. I wish New Recruit was easier to navigate at this point but it seems all over the place.

Edited August 15 by Galron

[Galron]

As for my Iron Warriors, I have refined my list a little as I have learned New Recruits GUI a little better, its still difficult to read and obviously many units and legion detachments are not there. To put form to my thoughts though.

Primary Crusade Det

Warsmith

Centurion Prime

Siege Breaker in termy armor

 

1 10 man tactical squad

2 10 man Breacher Squads

2 Rhinos

 

Iron Fire

2 Bombards

3 Rapiers with quad Launchers and phosphex

 

Hammer of Olympia

2 10 man Tactical Squads

Tyrant Siege Terminators

 

Armored Support

Punisher Sicarion Locus  Prime with all Shrapnel

2 Vindicators

Scorpius

 

5 Dominators

I havent quite polished up the points as I added a few things when I wrote this and didnt specify most of the prime benefits and so forth. It was easier with my Salamanders since I was starting from scratch, here I actually have models I want to use and put on the field. Thinking about dropping something and adding a mortalis Destroyer squad and Moritat. I think the move shoot 40 deflagrate shots, assault, volley with 40 deflagrate shots, just kidding we arent assaulting, would be pretty handy for clearing objectives of MEQs. 

 

Wow, been working on a Solar Aux force so maybe I can get some use out of my Elysians. Its very hard to fill slots compared to Space marines. Maybe its a New Recruit thing and not having worked out the bugs and it not telling you what you need to know. But I am trying to do a Light Infantry force supported by aircraft and light artillery and elite infantry and walkers at 3000 points and I am running out of slots at about 2500 points so maybe I am missing something somewhere. I know I have 80 line infantry, 60 Veletarius infantry, something like 12 walkers, 4 arvus lighters, 2 fighters, all four command slots filled, 4 or 6 rapiers(although I am using fixed emplacement towed artillery).

Edited August 12 by Galron

[Galron]

A few of my basic vehicles for my Sallies. Knocking out the required stuff before I get to the fun stuff

A few of my basic vehicles for my Sallies. Knocking out the required stuff before I get to the fun stuff

[Galron]

Had a really fun intro game yesterday with a guy I randomly met up with on our group's discord. We both wanted to figure out 3.0 so we jumped in head first with 3k. His list was more themed, mine was more wanting to see what various things could actually do in 3.0. Holy crap, artillery is back baby!

My list was a kitchen sink of

Warsmith(rode with dominators)

centurion prime paragon of battle but only a power sword and volkite charger

Siege breaker in terminator armor(only character model I had was in terminator armor)

2 breacher squadsx10 each nunceo vox, vexillia, 2 graviton guns

1 tactical squad x10 nunceo vox, vex

1 Dominator Squadx5, thunder hammers, one dude with multi-melta and chain fist

1 Tartaros terminator Siege Squad x5with autocannons and chain fists(probably should have skipped the chain fists when I built them)

1 Tyrant Siege Terminator Squadx5

2 Landraiders basic loadout

Vindicator no upgrades

Sicarian Punishers, full shrapnel loadout

1 Rhino no upgrades

1 Arquitor with heavy bolters

1 Rapier Quad Mortar with phosphex

1 Scorpius

 

From what I remember he had

Praetor in cata armor

Saboteur

Exodus

master of signals

10 man headhunters

2 despoilers in rhinos and power spears on sgts

2x 20 tacticals with full upgrades

10 man meltas in a drop pod

10 man flamers in a drop pod

land raider basic load out

2 full lascannon preds

 

I'll snag a few of his pics from discord but there was decent terrain but for some reason we set up all four objectives except two in the open. We misread the deployment rules and thought that he set up first and I went first but no. So I had to change a couple things once we sorted that out. I did fail to seize. 

His T1: He moved stuff forward and realized he should have rearranged things too since he thought he was going second when he deployed. He got some shots off took a few hull points off my Breachers on the left side's rhino, and his land raider managed a hull point on my commanders land raider. His predator completely wiffed on penetrating or even glancing the other land raider even though he had wide open shots on it(thought I was going first). He made the mistake of using his rhino's combi-bolters to shoot at my Tartaros siege terminators in the building covering the left side crater objective and failed to damage anyone. They returned fire on his side armor with 15 shots and did 3 damage and stunned it.  MY T1: Was kind of brutal. I moved my tactical squad onto the right side open objective. My breacher rhino moved up and the breachers disembarked onto the leftside crater objective. The left land raider moved up to use a building as partial cover. Commander LR reversed and pivoted to bring one of his despoiler rhinos approaching the objective my tacticals just took into sight. Vindicator moved its full movement forward to bring one of his 20 man squads with the MOS into range and the Punisher moved forward and got a few guns angled on where I expected the other rhino to dump its troops when I blew it up. Tart Siege terminators blew up the rhino and everyone got out. Punisher and breachers shot up all but three guys I couldnt see on the other side of the wreck(I'll speak on this later.) Tyrants went hog and fired across the board and blew up a Predator. My center landraider wiffed on penetrating his landraider. My command raider did 3 damage to the despoiler rhino on the right, but due to armor bane, no status effects. My Scorpius killed 3 headhunters. My arquitor and rapier scattered and only killed a couple tac marines who were sitting on his almost home objective on the far right. Vindicator killed ten dudes in one shot. 

 

His T2: He dismounted his terminators to try and use their funky gun that gets better with range, not realizing he was too close. His right side despoilers dismount and get their charge off. The left side predator I forget what it tries to do but it fails to do it. Most of the troops remaining on the left side move up and further left to try and engage the breacher camping the objective in the crater. He reminded me I could shield wall, so I did so, and lost only a few guys to the headhunters, remainder of the tac squad and the 3 last despoilers who tried to and failed their charge after everyone totally wiffed on their pistol volley fire. The close combat on the right side was like two kids beating on each other with wet pool noodles and 10 despoilers killed one tac marine, and 5 tac marines killed one despoiler. I did fail since I was outnumbered but passed my check and held, knowing that I had backup sitting inside the landraider.  Oh yeah, his drop pod came in with a melta squad and dropped next to the arquitor for some reason. I popped smoke and he only did 3 damage to me with 10 melta guns. MT T2: Long story short, tarts killed the despoilers, he just picked them up. Breachers and punishers killed all the headhunters and 2 wounds on Exodus but he was out of sight behind the rhino wreck. Vindicator killed one guy, but killed that one guy really hard in the MOS's squad. Breachers, and phosphex rapier, and land raider took out the lernean terminators leaving only the praetor. Dominators and warsmith jumped out of the landraider and it was like that scene from Chronicles of Riddick where the PDF take out the squad of Necromungers and are all cheering and then there is a flash and behind them are a whole bunch more ready to go. Landraider pops the rhino. Tyrants attempt a twofer and go for the other pred but only do 3 damage since they moved.

 

We dont know the legality of it and didnt have time to look but thought it would be fun to try it anyway. In ToW you are allowed to attach and detach characters from units at the beginning of any turn. So rather than hunt down whether you could or couldnt in HH we agreed we could so that the Centurion with the land raider breachers detached when they got out and made his intelligence check to detect the Saboteur. He then charged, and challenged. They duked it out over several turned of combat, and both were down to 1 wound. Finally my centurion got lucky, won the focus roll off vs the power dagger and actually managed to roll a Breaching 6 with his sword to finish him. 

 

At this point we had been playing from 5pm -815pm and my opponent needed to head home and both of us had 45 minute drives in opposite directions so we called it. I wasnt really keeping track of points but I knew I won it just from 2 turns of having 2 line(2) units on objectives, + 1 turn of another line(2) on an objective and first strike. I would have to check to see in Dominators got vanguard since technically the despoilers they killed were on the objective at the time and the surviving sergeant consolidated back onto it after the fight.  

Artillery is great- mine scattered a bunch but the breaching with the high strength and the return of big pie plates was nice. Scatter being only 1d6 is even better.

Tartaros Siege terminators are the bomb. Still dont know what I was thinking giving them chainfists. I might pop off the arms and put on power weapons and save 50 points in the future, I dont see why I would want to move them.

Dominators rock

Tyrants are great, provided they dont have to move. Huge difference. Same for lascannons though. 

Battlesmiths are needed if you bring vehicles. In my case he was hitting me with armor bane every time, which weirdly enough was a good thing, but you need a 6 to get rid of status effects without a battlesmith as near as we were able to tell

We spent half the game looking up rules but it was fun. I wasnt trying to build an overwhelming list, I just threw stuff together to see how it worked. My next list will be different and a bit more cohesive now that I kind of know whats what, where to shave points I didnt need to spend and so on.

 

Apparently the rest of the images were over the 4.8m threshhold and i dont have a way on my phone to shrink them that i am aware of.  So here is the charge of the dominators into the despoilers. Also the melta guys before the arquitor point blanks them and siege breaker who is right behind a drop pod fin charges the remainder.

Edited Tuesday at 05:02 PM by Galron

[Galron]

My new IW Boom list is going to be:

Warsmith

Centurion-Paragon of Battle with combat shield and graviton Crusher(run with the breachers)

3x15 Tactical Squad guys with Nunceo vox

Breachers x15 with 3 Grav guns, nunceo vox, combi flamer on sgt

 

Hammer of Olympia

Tyrant Siege Terminators x5

Dominator Terminators x5 1 multi-melta and chainfist

Land raider basic loadout

 

Tactical Support

Heavy Weapons Squad- x10 nunceo-vox, augury scanner, Missile Launchers

Tech marine

 

Armored Support

3 Vindicators

 

Lord of War 

Typhon siege tank with lascannons

 

I was going to use artillery but decided direct fire was more fun and less oppressive. I can alternate out the tech marine for a veteran version of the Heavy weapons squad or upgrade it to autocannons.