Grand Narrative list idea

[Sume]

I been trying to toss around ideas for the grand narrative.  I decided to take Sisters of Battle to this in November.  After being surprised gifted with the new Emperors Children back in March.  Which I brought to the Dallas narrative event in May.  That one was using Nachmund rules and a mistake of understanding the rules packet.  I had a very bad experience overall with the army.  Nothing wrong with EC, I still feel its like 1/4 of an army book.  Having had some thought on it.  I know what I would fix for 1k and even 2k points using my favorite detachment.  Then for July in Tacoma's narrative event I brought Necrons.  Well with lessons learned from Dallas.  Expecting waves, the army did overall well.  I learned stuff that I wasn't used to in 10th.  Like OMG the strat Rapid Ingress.  Would had helped with both of my forces.  Then probably even with my first games of 10th at LVO back in January.  

 

Anyway I found out in Tacoma that the Grand narrative will be 1k then 2k points for the final games.  I went and broke things down into 2 separate lists. They'll honestly do better as a full 2k point but since it will be crusade I guess I can get units swapped around before the 2k point games to get them experience.  As from my 2 past crusade games.  I realize your not really going to get units past blooded.  Why there's some overlap in the the 2nd part.  I expect the terrain to be the same stuff used from the other 2 narrative events. As Tacoma had extra tables and those where like an Eldar ruins.  The other stuff.  The tables are dense.  Even the Ork planet ones.  That I figured, I can do pretty well.  The list is using Inquisitorial agent allies.  As I want to try and get as close to a witchhunter theme.  So, I am sure there would been better stuff to use but I am trying to go for flavor and all.  Not sure if anything meshes.  Will posts the list and then explain the set up/thought.

First list:  Mostly the main list for the first few games and swap out as needed on duplicated units.  

 

Champions of Faith:

Canoness Warlord, Rod of Office, Power weapon, Plasma pistol
Hospitaller Sanctified Amulet, Bolt pistol, Chirugeon's tools

Battle Sisters Squad
• 9x Battle Sister
    6 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Close combat weapon
    1 with Simulacrum Imperialis, Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Close combat weapon
    1 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Multi-melta
    1 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Meltagun
• 1x Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Power weapon, Combi-weapon

10x Celestian Sacresants 
• 1x Sacresant Superior: Spear of the Faithful, Inferno pistol
• 9x Celestian Sacresant (Hallowed Mace): 9 with Bolt pistol, Hallowed Mace

1x Mortifiers: Anchorite Sarcophagus, Twin Penitent Buzz-Blades, 2x Heavy Bolter
 

1x Mortifiers: Anchorite Sarcophagus, Twin Penitent Buzz-Blades, 2x Heavy Bolter
 

3x Paragon Warsuits 
• 2x Paragon Warsuit
    1 with Paragon Warsuit, Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Mace, Ministorum heavy flamer
    1 with Paragon Warsuit, Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Blade, Multi-melta
• 1x Paragon Superior: Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Mace, Multi-melta
 

1x Immolator: Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta
 

1x Sororitas Rhino: Armoured tracks, Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm bolter

Imperial Agents:
9x Sanctifiers (100 pts)
• 4x Sanctifier
    1 with Simulacrum Imperialis, Close combat weapon, Ministorum hand flamer
    1 with Close combat weapon, 2x Ministorum hand flamer
    2 with Ministorum hand flamer, Sanctifier melee weapon
• 2x Missionary
    1 with Holy fire, Sanctifier melee weapon, Plasma gun
    1 with Ministorum flamer, Sanctifier melee weapon
• 1x Miraculist: Burning hands, Holy fire
• 1x Death Cult Assassin: Death Cult blades
• 1x Salvationist: Salvationist Medikit, Close combat weapon

 

List 2: 
 

10x Battle Sisters Squad
• 9x Battle Sister
    6 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Close combat weapon
    1 with Simulacrum Imperialis, Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Close combat weapon
    1 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Multi-melta
    1 with Battle Sister, Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Meltagun
• 1x Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Power weapon, Combi-weapon

 

10x Celestian Sacresants
• 1x Sacresant Superior: Spear of the Faithful, Inferno pistol
• 9x Celestian Sacresant (Anointed Halberd): 9 with Anointed Halberd, Bolt pistol

 

1x Exorcist: Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Exorcist Missile Launcher

 

3x Paragon Warsuits 
• 2x Paragon Warsuit
    1 with Paragon Warsuit, Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Mace, Ministorum heavy flamer
    1 with Paragon Warsuit, Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Mace, Multi-melta
• 1x Paragon Superior: Bolt pistol, Paragon Grenade Launchers, Paragon War Mace, Multi-melta

 

1x Immolator: Armoured tracks, Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Twin Multi-melta

 

1x Sororitas Rhino: Armoured tracks, Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm bolter

 

Imperial Agents:

Char1: 1x Callidus Assassin: Neural shredder, Phase sword and poison blades
Char2: 1x Inquisitor: Force weapon, Combi-weapon, Psychic gifts

Well here are the two lists.  I know NR was screaming at me on the 2nd list for having too many Allied units.  I know at 2k points that I can have both of these.  Also, I think I could have it switched out in the first list for the Sancttifiers if I decided to not use for that mission.  Also, I know you have the RP pool of points, so in crusade I'll have to pay for the bigger pool as we go.  Which is fine.  The inquisitor also will be attached to the Sanctifiers.  Now, the idea is I can switch the immolators out after they get their first battle honors to level each of them up, along with the battle sisters, sacrants, and the warsuits.  Depending on what unit of sacrants are in, the cannoness will be with the halbreds and the hospitaler will be with the maces.  In the 1k games, the cannoness will be with the main group that been combat squad by the immolator.  I really wanted to add a castigator but I felt that Champions of faith was more melee focused and not as much shooting, 

Things I wanted to add but was sort of at a loss was 10 arco flaggents with or without a priest.  Rhino for arco flaggents.  Then possible rhino for the Sanctifiers.  I really like my tanks and feel sort of naked without transports.  I figured they're helpful to help protect squisher models.  If there is anything glaring or I have overlooked things do let me know.  With this list, all I got to actually buy is a box of mortifers.  I suppose the mortifers could be dropped for the arco flaggents but I feel they help add in some long range fire power, and can help clap some light tanks or medium infantry.  I know I am really lacking anti horde overall but I noticed between Dallas, and Tacoma.  High toughness really ruled the day.  Saw less tanks in Dallas but the overall meta is very tank meta and or high toughness infantry.  

Thank you if you managed to make it to the end of this rather long post that I feel like I been rambling on now.

Edited August 7 by Sume

[ThePenitentOne]

Conceptually, I think you might want to differentiate the two lists from each other a bit- not necessarily by adding or subtracting any units from the total pool, but by putting like models together.

 

So one of the things I always thought about, all the way from 2nd ed, is the separation between units that have maintained their holy covenant with the Emperor, versus those that have fallen  and are now required to take the Penitent Vow. I reasoned that the Holy ones might be afraid that the sins of the Penitent would contaminate the army. As a result, I tended to keep the holiest units together and the Penitent units together. Similarly, I found it matched my head-cannon for the Inquisitor to exert oversight upon the Penitent to ensure they find their way back to the Emperor.

 

Also:  Sanctifiers have two cards- one for sisters, and one for Agents, and I think in a Crusade, you could use those interchangeably, which could help with the number of Agent Units when you're using them in 1k armies.

 

Anyway, diversifying the two 1k forces gives you a tactical choice in a 1k game. If the armies are similar, that choice isn't really there.

 

So maybe one of the 1k forces is a penitent host- it has the Morties, the Inquisitor, the sanctifiers (whether they use the sisters card or the agents card), If you did want to shoe-horn in Arcos, this is where they would go. The other army is the Holiest of the Holy, so heavy on Celestians and Paragons. Then when you figure out who you're facing, you can decide which of your two forces is a better fit.

 

If you didn't like the Penitent/ Holy split, maybe its range vs close combat, or maybe flame vs. melta. But it would give you flexibility in 1k games, however you choose to use it.

 

Also, if you get to do Agendas and add battle honours, loading up one of the 1k forces with a few repentia might be interesting, because if they manage to redeem themselves, you can choose to replace them with a different unit late in the campaign based on what you need, whether that's Seraphim, Zephyrim or more Paragons. They also feed into the Penitent theme.

[Sume]

Thank you for the feedback.  All very valid points for sure.  I tried to mostly work with what I currently have and to use most of what is all ready painted.  Sadly I dont really want to fly with the serphaim and zephryaim again cause of those fiddly flying stands, tell I can come up with a better fix for them.

I did try and take a 2k list and shove it into two separate lists.  I played around and back and forth with different point values.  I do have 2 penitent engines, 5 repenta and 3 more arco flaggents.  I still dont feel like I have enough to make a pentinet host at 1k points without having more repenta, pentint engines and arco flaggents.

I am not sure in crusade if the sanctifers get to switch between the two cards or not.  They where included as agents to give a home to the inquisitor.  As much as i tried to place him some where.  I didnt want to take a full squad of his henchmen and didnt want to drop him in a 5 squad of sisters.  He's there mostly honestly for flavor and my idea for this narrative theme is he's there leading this group, even if hes not on the field.

 

[ThePenitentOne]

Cool, so narrative-wise, your Sanctifiers are Inquisition, even if the rules would allow you to switch it up- I like the commitment, and I'm sure your Inquisitor appreciates the loyalty.

 

 

[Sume]

I really enjoyed the theme of Witchhunters.  I do like that they finally made Agents of Imperium something to play again.  Wish they'd go back to having Demonhunters, Witchhunters and Xenohunters even if they never did get a book.  I feel that 5th did these armies and the faction a whole a disgrace by separating them out.  Space Marines and even the main Chaos Space Marine codexes have so many options.  That I wouldnt mind seeing the Inquistion being rolled back into the codexes like it was in 3rd.

I really do want to try and use that limited edition Inquistor more.  Giden Lore that was released in 3rd.  I see the theme as he's using this batch of Ebon Chalice sisters as his personal guard.  Grand Narrative wise I am not sure what well be doing yet.  Will find out when we get there for sure.  I am on the side of the Inquistor looking for a reason to do an exterminatus that or helping retrieve relics dear to the Esscilary or even the sisterhood.  I felt like that since the events of this one will be incorporated into official warhammer lore.  Lets hope the sisters get a small presence even if they all die right?  I suspect well being the new Armageddon rules again.  

[ThePenitentOne]

I don't mind Agents being its own book- in fact, I think that's the easiest way to organize Chambers Militant: Sisters, GK and DW all have units that they use when fighting under their own authority for their own objectives... And these units are less likely to be used by the Inquisition because they are far too specialized or integrated with the rest of the Chamber's bespoke units.

 

Named characters, obviously, are a bit less likely to subordinate themselves to an Inquisitor's command... Which is not to say they won't work together, just that the relationship is better demonstrated by using the Assigned Agents rule than trying to shoehorn them into an Ordo detachment. Like, if the Inquisition needs Vahl for a Mission, she ain't gonna refuse... But she's going to maintain her command authority over the part of the combined force that she brings with her. She'll do what the Inquisitor asks, unless it's a truly egregious order.

 

Whereas I could see an Inquisitor permanently requisitioning the use of a BSS and a pair of Immos; these units would be away from the authority of the Sororitas, and under the direct control of the Inquisitor. They would adapt their fighting style in accordance with the Inquisitor's needs. This sounds like the arrangement you're looking for with you force. The ebon Chalice units in your army may have been away from the Sororitas Command structure adventuring with the Inquisitor for quite some time. The rules don't really allow you to reflect this, because you have Sororitas units in both lists that MUST be fielded under a Sisters commander rather than an Inquisitor- Sacressants, Paragons, etc.

 

What I DO wish, however, is that GW had gone farther with the Agents dex. It is the height of stupidity that Navy units can't take an Aircraft like the Valkyrie as a transport; it wouldn't even require a new model to make this happen. And while the Space-Faring nature of Rogue Traders makes it reasonable to use their profile to reflect how a Naval officer might behave in game, I'm sure most of us would actually rather have a Naval Officer HQ choice (actually, I want two- a captain equivalent and a lieutenant equivalent). Sure, we can use an Inquisitor to lead Arbites, and I think we can even throw them in a Rhino or Chimera, but I'm sure most of us would rather have an Arbites Marshal or Judge (or both), a Repressor and/or a unit of Arbites bikers.

 

As for what your Inquisitor is doing, you've got the cool threat and sector control stuff from the Agents dex, so you can generate a threat within the Narrative. You may also use some of the material to try and figure out how your Inquisitor works: you won't have any Vermillion level assets (VLA) until you win them, but it's worth thinking about whether your Inquisitor is a Radical or a Puritan, because some of them require you to pick one or the other.

 

You may also think about whether your Inquisition force specializes in Investigation, Influence or Intrigue. This can influence you choice of Battle Honours, Agendas and even unit selection. Obviously, all of this will also feed you Role-Playing tips in addition to governing game choices. If you're a Radical Intrigue guy, you might eventually use a Bound Entity VLA, but it also means you're more willing to work with psychics or trust information from non-Imperial sources; you may even have Xenos contacts or tech. Similarly, you likely prefer to gather information using the Clandestine Operations or Strategic Excrutiation Agendas, and your Agents are more likely to lean into Devotion to the Throne battle honour more than Ruthless Interogators... But it also means you really far more spycraft and politics than naked authority and direct confrontation.

 

Quick sidenote: My sisters are very insular- many of them are natives of the planet where the early stages of the campaign take place, and they don't trust outsiders even if they are required to be civil and work together. These folks tend to fight un-helmeted as a visual cue. When the Inquisitor arrives with Sisters from a larger Commandery, they are helmeted to protect their identities and anyone who can be equipped with a Condemnor Boltgun will be, because while they are Sisters by definition, they are dedicated Witch Hunters in practice.