Rinky-dink Retcons?

[Flaherty]

Everyone has hot takes on the gender of the Emperor's golden guardians or whether Magnus did anything wrong. But what's your most trivial take about how to improve the imperium, Great Waaaagh, Hivemind, etc.?

 

My cool take is that the Codex Astartes needs a better art director.

- The Raven Guard and Iron Hands should have a loser-leaves-town match to decide the black and white color scheme. Add in Deathwatch and you have entirely too much charcoal ceramite. IMHO, I'd make the Raven Guard a bit more native american themed, dark camo, tribal motifs, etc. Iron Hands have so little going for them lore-wise, they deserve the better color scheme. But this current duplication cannot stand.

- The Codex Astartes needs a better way to differentiate company markings than colored pauldron trim. 4th company Imperial Fists look ridiculous – Like a 1990s Nickelodeon commercial. The White Scars are the way. Let the Ultras resemble color-coded three-ring binders, but give the others a clear marking system that makes their organization stand out, rather than a Crayola crayon box.

 

How would you marginally improve the imperium of man? No major lore rewrites or Deus Ex developments, just little tweaks around the edges.

[CL_Mission]

Terminators should wear the Crux Terminatus on their right shoulder pad so their chapter insignia can go on the left like everyone else in the chapter. Alternatively everyone else should move their chapter insignia to match the Terminators.

[Evil Eye]

The Rhino can only carry 10 fully equipped Marines with the top hatch open; 6 is the maximum it can carry with it closed. This (along with the additional space for the ammunition and turret mechanisms) is why the Razorback can only carry 6.

 

A bolter round has a two-stage ignition; a conventional case-charge like any other shell or bullet which provides the initial momentum, and then the rocket motor kicks in after a set time from firing to give extra range/penetration. This circumvents the issue with IRL gyrojet rounds (poor close-range performance) and also has the side effect of a single bolt producing three bangs; the initial charge of the firing action, the secondary rocket motor and then of course the bolt itself exploding on impact. As a result, even by firearm standards, bolters are INCREDIBLY LOUD.

 

The agri-world featured in the Calgar comic (the "orange-skied hellscape poisoned by fertilizers and pesticides") is only one, relatively uncommon form of agri-world in the Imperium, which run the gamut from planet-wide hydroponics facilities to giant rice paddies to worlds consisting almost entirely of relatively conventional (and honestly fairly pleasant) farmland. Standardization in the Imperium is so incredibly poor after all that even if the factory-farm world was judged to be the best way of doing things, it almost certainly wouldn't be widely adopted as between the Administratum being painfully slow at best and the sheer logistical nightmare of trying to enforce such a standard on the entire galaxy (even without the Rift) there is no way whatsoever it could be enforced.

 

Speaking of the above, attempts to enforce standardization on the Imperium have lead to considerable unrest and even minor intra-Imperial conflicts, and indeed quite a lot of other things with the notable exception of any form of standardization. The Great Agri-War of M38 was sparked after a motion by Magos "Auld" Makdonnal to convert all the agri-worlds in the Dionysa Sector to a single unified pattern of intensive grain farming, as opposed to the variety of different farming methods and product the sector had been providing, lead to outrage amongst the populations and governences of these worlds, resulting in a century long conflict between the supporters of the Magos and the local farmers, drawing several Imperial Guard regiments and even a few Space Marine chapters into the fray. Notably, companies of the Death Crusaders, Lionhearts and Tarantulas all came to the defense of the Dionysa Agri-Union (as they became known) whilst the Magos was supported by the Giantslayers and the Bronze Avengers. In fact, the Agri-War grew so bitter that accusations of heresy and deliberate subterfuge were made, and in the end the Inquisition became involved; however, despite thorough investigation neither the Dionysa Agri-Union nor the Magos and his aides were found to have any heretical purpose or outside corruption. In the end, with nobody to blame but simple human stubbornness, the Inquisition demanded an immediate end to hositilities and brokered a compromise: future worlds converted to agriculture in the Sector would follow the Magos' model, but all established worlds would continue to operate as they had been prior to the conflict, with reconstruction efforts coming out of the Magos' pocket. In the end, no exterminatus orders were made, nobody executed for heresy and the Dionysan sector returned to its usual, idyllic (by Imperial standards) existence, whilst Magos Makdonnal seethed.Though not as much as after it was discovered the only other worlds in the sector suitable for agri-world conversion were incompatible with the grain crop the Magos had been intending to produce.

[ThaneOfTas]

3 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

A bolter round has a two-stage ignition; a conventional case-charge like any other shell or bullet which provides the initial momentum, and then the rocket motor kicks in after a set time from firing to give extra range/penetration. This circumvents the issue with IRL gyrojet rounds (poor close-range performance) and also has the side effect of a single bolt producing three bangs; the initial charge of the firing action, the secondary rocket motor and then of course the bolt itself exploding on impact. As a result, even by firearm standards, bolters are INCREDIBLY LOUD.

Honestly I would genuinely have put money on that already being the case.

Edited 18 hours ago by ThaneOfTas

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

They do, in fact—several of the older codices and rulebooks describe bolter rounds as “two-stage” projectiles with both an initiating charge (similar to a normal firearm) and a secondary rocket propellant in the bolt itself (like a gyro jet). 
 

Canonically, the initial charge on an Astartes bolt gun is so powerful that its recoil would break a normal human’s arm. The bolters normal humans are running around with in-setting are smaller versions of the Astartes ones. 

[sitnam]

5 hours ago, Flaherty said:

- The Raven Guard and Iron Hands should have a loser-leaves-town match to decide the black and white color scheme. Add in Deathwatch and you have entirely too much charcoal ceramite. IMHO, I'd make the Raven Guard a bit more native american themed, dark camo, tribal motifs, etc. Iron Hands have so little going for them lore-wise, they deserve the better color scheme. But this current duplication cannot stand.

 

I disagree. I think the art should do a better job of differentiating their blacks. I always liked he oily black portrayal of Iron Hands in some of the studio Heresy paint jobs. The Raven Guard could have a flat matte black. This combined  with unique unit markings would set them apart.

 

5 hours ago, Flaherty said:

- The Codex Astartes needs a better way to differentiate company markings than colored pauldron trim. 4th company Imperial Fists look ridiculous – Like a 1990s Nickelodeon commercial. The White Scars are the way. Let the Ultras resemble color-coded three-ring binders, but give the others a clear marking system that makes their organization stand out, rather than a Crayola crayon box

 

I  hate the shoulder trim system, but honestly when you look at the first founding chapters it's not that prevalent of a problem. If I am correct, only Fists, UM's, and Raven Guard use the shoulder trim system. BA, IH, and  Salamanders all use unique shoulder symbols, whereas the WS and DA have leg patterns. Of course the preponderance of codex compliant UM successors means that many chapters will use the shoulder trim system, but it definitely isn't universal.

[Felix Antipodes]

It’s funny how the mind works… I’ve always perceived the RG and IH as different - matt black and gunmetal grey respectively - so never saw them as the same.

 

The shoulder trim system is also a non-event for me as well.  There are plenty of other methods shown over the years as well (both from GW itself and frater DIY Chapters) that I only use it as a given if I’m working on a UM successor design.  Even then it’s not a given if it affects the overall design.

 

If I was able to retcon anything it would be to change back some of the recent retcons that annoyed me no end, starting with the way they have tried to put the genie back in the bottle wrt deviant/non-codex Chapter sizes.  Looking at BT and especially IH.  Trying to shoehorn them back into the codex 1000 limit doesn’t work for me.  I much preferred the original do they/don’t they, nudge wink of the past.

 

The GK bathing in the blood of sisters would also be in my sights.

[SvenIronhand]

10 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

The agri-world featured in the Calgar comic (the "orange-skied hellscape poisoned by fertilizers and pesticides") is only one, relatively uncommon form of agri-world in the Imperium, which run the gamut from planet-wide hydroponics facilities to giant rice paddies to worlds consisting almost entirely of relatively conventional (and honestly fairly pleasant) farmland. Standardization in the Imperium is so incredibly poor after all that even if the factory-farm world was judged to be the best way of doing things, it almost certainly wouldn't be widely adopted as between the Administratum being painfully slow at best and the sheer logistical nightmare of trying to enforce such a standard on the entire galaxy (even without the Rift) there is no way whatsoever it could be enforced.

 

This is just canon, I thought.

[apologist]

While I'm fine with how Imperial Fists now stand, part of me wishes that 3rd edition had grasped the nettle and had the Black Templars as a particular detachment/faction/modus operandi of the Imperial Fists (much as the Deathwing were an alternative scheme for Dark Angels).

 

Likewise, I'd retcon the Alpha Legion to be slightly less insufferable and spool back to their 'superiority over all' schtick rather than 'sneaky sneaky ah-ha!' villains. Don't get me wrong; I like the 'hidden knife' idea; but think it rather fights with the idea of a Legion fighting battle-scale operations. By all means have the top brass and special forces in a tangled web of intrigue and misdirection, but it'd be nice to make their warbands (rather than individuals) have a bit more character.

 

+++

 

Beyond Space Marines, I'd like regular ork boys to have a bit more 'dark mirror of humanity' about them. They feel better when they're more comparable to a Guardsman than a Space Marine – tougher and more of a threat up-close, sure; but fundamentally an equivalent to a human, not a superhuman. I'd like more to be made of their settlements, kultur and personal/tribal rivalries; that strikes me as more narratively interesting than just the hulking mindless monsters. Like the baddies from old films, they should be a proper scary threat, but not as alien in their aims and desires as, say, Tyranids.

 

Orks should love a proper scrap and not have existential fear of death – but that doesn't mean they're idiots or can't get scared. Let's see some taktiks and straturgee from them; give them the credit for outwitting Imperial and other forces every once in a while, even if they generally prefer to out-muscle them to prove how 'ard they are!

 

+++

 

Also, I'd like the psychic part of Eldar to be made more of – superhuman reflexes married to a psychic communications grid should make them the masters of battlefield understanding. They're the elves of the setting, so I'd like to see Guardians get a bit more respect. Militia they may be, but they've still often hundreds or thousands of years of life experience – and in a galaxy of war, you bet they've seen their share of conflicts. Many have walked the path of the Warrior themselves, and their physical conditioning is – well, elf-like – so they're no slouches.

 

While I'd expect them to get pasted one-on-one with a Space Marine, a five-man group of Guardians should be a respectable opponent that's a genuine threat: operating with great equipment, a close understanding of their role and comrades, and with a psychic 'spider sense' helping them identify, neutralise or eliminate threats.

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, Flaherty said:

- The Raven Guard and Iron Hands should have a loser-leaves-town match to decide the black and white color scheme. Add in Deathwatch and you have entirely too much charcoal ceramite.

 

Better invite the Black Templars as well. It was even worse in the GC/HH as the Dark Angels wore proper black then too.

 

It turns out that in the grim darkness of the far future, black is the new black! 

[sairence]

14 hours ago, Flaherty said:

How would you marginally improve the imperium of man? No major lore rewrites or Deus Ex developments, just little tweaks around the edges.

 

In the next Ghaz story, regardless of who he's up against, out of nowhere comes Yarrick in customised dreadnought armour and WITH A STEEL CHAIR!

 

(I'm not bitter about him being written out in the margins, no sir, not at all)

Edited 9 hours ago by sairence

[Evil Eye]

21 minutes ago, sairence said:

 

In the next Ghaz story, regardless of who he's up against, out of nowhere comes Yarrick in customised dreadnought armour and WITH A STEEL CHAIR!

 

(I'm not bitter about him being written out in the margins, no sir, not at all)

"Zog me, Yarrick! Where's yer been? I'z missed ya, me boy!"

"It takes more than foul warp-spawn to...wait, what?"

"Oh come on, Yarrick, you'z me best foe ever, it just 'asn't been da same wivvout yer!"

"...Huh. Um...thank you, vile xenos? I won't lie, that's far from the worst thing I've heard from a bitter enemy. Though I don't remember you being so big, I swear you used to fit on a 40mm."

"Yeah, scale creep's weird like dat."

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

- reintroduce the black trim on Blood Angels pouldrons

- get rid of gold helmets on BA veterans

- back banners for everyone all the time, with personalized heraldry for characters. And for dreadnaughts

- there's not enough burning heretics in SM artworks 

- Sons of Medusa have faithfully kept the precepts of Moirae, maybe expanded upon with time, but the core remains the same and their beliefs are unmistakebly those of Moirae

 

Finally, I don't know if it counts as a minor change, but SM should belive in Emperor's divinity like everyone else and it has always rubbed me the wrong way that the space warrior-monks do not. It was a bad retcon introduced in the end of the 2nd ed. Either this or get rid of all those monasteries, chaplains, brothers, relics, prayers and what's not.

[Karhedron]

49 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

- reintroduce the black trim on Blood Angels pouldrons

 

Black trim never went away (yes, I will die on this hill! )

 

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

- reintroduce the black trim on Blood Angels pouldrons

- get rid of gold helmets on BA veterans

- back banners for everyone all the time, with personalized heraldry for characters. And for dreadnaughts

- there's not enough burning heretics in SM artworks 

- Sons of Medusa have faithfully kept the precepts of Moirae, maybe expanded upon with time, but the core remains the same and their beliefs are unmistakebly those of Moirae

 

Finally, I don't know if it counts as a minor change, but SM should belive in Emperor's divinity like everyone else and it has always rubbed me the wrong way that the space warrior-monks do not. It was a bad retcon introduced in the end of the 2nd ed. Either this or get rid of all those monasteries, chaplains, brothers, relics, prayers and what's not.

Problem with that last bit is that currently, its part of the BTs identity that they do believe that (wonder how Dorn will feel about that with his eventually return). Plus with primarchs running around the setting, they may want to respect his wishes of not being idolised. Guilliman may have conflicting opinions of this over what happened in godblight.

 

Thinking on that thread though, where do the Grey Knights stand on that issue? Are they straight up 100% believers or is it more complicated than that.

[Bouargh]

The RetConning I see would be a rewrite of the Age of Apostasy and the following events up to Abyssal Crusade. It will define St Basileus as a real Living Saint and not a Chaos power puppets (or in the end, and as a terrific cliffhanger, not at all, but with good excuses). Why? Please follow my mindless demo:

 

Last BIG RetCon in GW franchises is the World that Was. So, if I go crazy and if I draw do a parallel with the game system release schedule for Fantasy and the timeline of the Old World to be transposed into 40k:

( Article about AoS having been released 10 years ago is not disconnected from my brain going off-roads  (History of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – Soul Wars and Broken Realms - Warhammer Community))

- The Old World came back on shelves in 2024, so 9 years after it has been shattered and sucked into the warp. And resurrection of the Old WOrld was set a few century/millenias before the End of Times, say into year 2250 while End of times happened 250/300 years after in the game timeline. It is a step back at 90% after Sigmar being revealed vs. End of times date . Which induced the need for RetConning the Empire and the Old World at that time (Welcome Cathay...).

Such a transposition in the same 90% range after the Emperor launching its Big crusade with the XVIII legions and the Date of the Fall of Cadia, with leads to 36th of 37th millenia. So set into the era of, let's say, Age of Apostasy up to Abyssal Crusade as good candidates for RetConning.

 

Consequence, once injected it into 40k setting, it might eventually lead to a series of additionnal comments:

1. It does not necesarily requires a new game system for 40k, even if fans may dream of a come back of the 100% the First born style

2. Badad setting will not, never ever be RetConned*. Oldest times are preferable.

3. And market wise this RetConning will happen 9 years after the Fall of Cadia hit the shelves. So expect it to happen next year (as 8th Ed has been released in 2017...). It will be eventually packed into a series of books/novels only. Call it witchcraft if I end being right.

4. Most of people just do not care of this era so it will be a RetCon without consequences and we will still enjoy our current games of HH and 44k 11th Ed in the same way as today.

 

* Until someone changes his mind.

 

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

18 hours ago, Flaherty said:

Everyone has hot takes on the gender of the Emperor's golden guardians or whether Magnus did anything wrong. But what's your most trivial take about how to improve the imperium, Great Waaaagh, Hivemind, etc.?

 

My cool take is that the Codex Astartes needs a better art director.

- The Raven Guard and Iron Hands should have a loser-leaves-town match to decide the black and white color scheme. Add in Deathwatch and you have entirely too much charcoal ceramite. IMHO, I'd make the Raven Guard a bit more native american themed, dark camo, tribal motifs, etc. Iron Hands have so little going for them lore-wise, they deserve the better color scheme. But this current duplication cannot stand.

- The Codex Astartes needs a better way to differentiate company markings than colored pauldron trim. 4th company Imperial Fists look ridiculous – Like a 1990s Nickelodeon commercial. The White Scars are the way. Let the Ultras resemble color-coded three-ring binders, but give the others a clear marking system that makes their organization stand out, rather than a Crayola crayon box.

 

How would you marginally improve the imperium of man? No major lore rewrites or Deus Ex developments, just little tweaks around the edges.

The Iron Hands received a metallic paint scheme in the HH trading card game.

[DemonGSides]

IH more of a gunmetal grey, RG is more of a Vanta Black situation. Plenty of room for shades of black.

[ThePenitentOne]

I want to see more GSC "Seeding the Stars" infrastructure- both Lore-wise and Rule-wise.

 

Lore-wise, what we're dealing with is Cults who become self aware; they realize that the 'Nids will reabsorb the Biomass of the Cult, and they take steps to prevent it. There would need to be a number of ways a cult can achieve self-awareness, and a number of steps they can take if and when they do. 

 

Rule-wise, I want an Agent of the Perpetual Cult. Now, this can either be a character model, OR a rules template that attaches to a character. This Agent, whether a new character or a template, is concerned with the Cult's preservation beyond the arrival of the Nids. Generally, this involves getting to voidcraft to escape a doomed planet (Seed the Stars, as described in the Crusade rules), but it could also involve the construction of a device the dampens the psychic signal the Cult sends to the Hive mind.

 

It could also be Brood Cycle control: rather than allowing the Cult to grow according to it's natural instincts, a Cult imperative that prevented the second wave of Purestrains from passing the Curse would prevent a second Brood Cycle from developing, but it would NOT necessarily limit the Cult's ability to grow. Some units that tend to appear only in late-stage Brood Cycles (Aberrants and Metamorphs) would be far less likely in such armies.

 

I'm not convinced that Star Seeded cults NEED a voidcraft model- they would be stealing an Imperial craft after all- but it could be a cool edition to the army.

 

More Tau Auxiliaries too please. Like maybe a Vespid HQ and a second unit- Heavy or Elite. Heck, just make an official 40k datacard for the new Necromunda flying Helamites and you've got your second Vespid unit. And then create another species... I'd recommend Demiurg, because I think they could also tie in with Votann. Release a few units of human Tau auxiliaries too- I think they're called Guev'sa? (Not enough of a Tau guy to get all the vocabulary; Kroot were always my primary interest).

 

I'd also like to see more Beastmen. Tzaangors have multiple Kson units, and I feel like every God deserves the same compliment of Beastman awesomeness. Then we need an unaligned/ undivided HQ and a minotaur/ big Beastman unit. 

 

Note: I know some of these suggestions don't necessarily constitute "Retcons" as per OP, but lore additions would need to be made, if not actual modifications.

[Cleon]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Black trim never went away (yes, I will die on this hill! )

 

Aye Brother, they can tear my Black Trim from my cold dead hands!

 

(Also, I respect the black chest Eagle, but it's not for me).

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Black trim never went away (yes, I will die on this hill! )

 

 

 Look at that subtle off-black coloring. The tasteful shade of it. Oh my God, there's even a Goblin Green base

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

Problem with that last bit is that currently, its part of the BTs identity that they do believe that (wonder how Dorn will feel about that with his eventually return). Plus with primarchs running around the setting, they may want to respect his wishes of not being idolised. Guilliman may have conflicting opinions of this over what happened in godblight.

 

Thinking on that thread though, where do the Grey Knights stand on that issue? Are they straight up 100% believers or is it more complicated than that.

 

So maybe it's not such a small lore change :-)  I guess GK fall with the majority of the marines? They were just revealed to be an Emp kill-switch after all.

[Flaherty]

2 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I want to see more GSC "Seeding the Stars" infrastructure- both Lore-wise and Rule-wise.

 

Lore-wise, what we're dealing with is Cults who become self aware; they realize that the 'Nids will reabsorb the Biomass of the Cult, and they take steps to prevent it. There would need to be a number of ways a cult can achieve self-awareness, and a number of steps they can take if and when they do. 

 

Rule-wise, I want an Agent of the Perpetual Cult. Now, this can either be a character model, OR a rules template that attaches to a character. This Agent, whether a new character or a template, is concerned with the Cult's preservation beyond the arrival of the Nids. Generally, this involves getting to voidcraft to escape a doomed planet (Seed the Stars, as described in the Crusade rules), but it could also involve the construction of a device the dampens the psychic signal the Cult sends to the Hive mind.

 

It could also be Brood Cycle control: rather than allowing the Cult to grow according to it's natural instincts, a Cult imperative that prevented the second wave of Purestrains from passing the Curse would prevent a second Brood Cycle from developing, but it would NOT necessarily limit the Cult's ability to grow. Some units that tend to appear only in late-stage Brood Cycles (Aberrants and Metamorphs) would be far less likely in such armies.

 

I'm not convinced that Star Seeded cults NEED a voidcraft model- they would be stealing an Imperial craft after all- but it could be a cool edition to the army.

 

More Tau Auxiliaries too please. Like maybe a Vespid HQ and a second unit- Heavy or Elite. Heck, just make an official 40k datacard for the new Necromunda flying Helamites and you've got your second Vespid unit. And then create another species... I'd recommend Demiurg, because I think they could also tie in with Votann. Release a few units of human Tau auxiliaries too- I think they're called Guev'sa? (Not enough of a Tau guy to get all the vocabulary; Kroot were always my primary interest).

 

I'd also like to see more Beastmen. Tzaangors have multiple Kson units, and I feel like every God deserves the same compliment of Beastman awesomeness. Then we need an unaligned/ undivided HQ and a minotaur/ big Beastman unit. 

 

Note: I know some of these suggestions don't necessarily constitute "Retcons" as per OP, but lore additions would need to be made, if not actual modifications.

 

Totally agree here. Not a retcon per se, but definitely something that should be fleshed out. I have a vision of the Alpha Legion recruiting an operative from a GSC infected society. They have some means to make him resistant to the psychic conditioning and he's trying to effectuate AL plans in the midst of the religious fervor. Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Purestrain.