HH3.0 General Q&A

[Pacific81]

With over 700 pages combined of rulebook + Liber there are a lot of rules to be read. Thought a quickfire general Q&A thread might be useful?

 

Does anyone know if I am reading this Sons of Horus Rite of War correctly?

Volley Attacks can only be carried out by Assault Weapons; Therefore this RoW is kind of useless unless you have squads decked out with loads of pistols and the like (and specifically this won't combine with Banestrike Bolters).

 

[Khulu]

Would also work with Implacable Advance 

[MDops]

When you put it in context of units that are probably going to be experiencing this its quite good. Justarians hitting on their normal +3 rather than snapping on 5's is going to do a world of difference. Heavy support squads were probably going to be screwed anyway

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Frankly, I prefer the old Death Dealers. This one is so limited. Ok, with terminators and Destroyers is more than interesting,I admit it but for the rest is, if not totally useless, it is very limited. And in edition with so much weight in shooting, I expected other things.

[SlickSamos]

Somewhat related question, how do templates work with Volley Fire / Snap Shots?

[Gorgoff]

12 minutes ago, SlickSamos said:

Somewhat related question, how do templates work with Volley Fire / Snap Shots?

Templates doesn't need to role to hit and therefore don't snapfire. Volley fire I don't know. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Volley fire are snap shots, and I think template and blast weapons cannot do snap shots.

 

The rulebook,anyway, say nothing about it, or I can't find anything about that. It's just a supposition.

Edited August 14 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Khulu]

1 hour ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Volley fire are snap shots, and I think template and blast weapons cannot do snap shots.

 

The rulebook,anyway, say nothing about it, or I can't find anything about that. It's just a supposition.

I played a game where this came up with a blast weapon on a dreadnought volley firing. I can't find anywhere that it is disallowed but I agree it feels wrong. 

[MagicHat]

I haven't seen anything so far that says template/blast weapons can't snapfire.

You need the Assault trait to make volley fire attacks, so most template/blast weapon can't volley fire... However, hand flamers do have assault, so probably templates can volley fire, and thus snap fire.

Implacable advance just lets you volley fire with any weapon without Heavy or Ordnance rule, so would let heavy flamers volley fire if I am correct.

 

EDIT: Dreadnoughts are still bound to using assault weapons in volley fire, and the Contemptor and Leviathan that do have implacable advance still can't use a weapon with Heavy or Ordnance. I guess Overwatch would let you do so however.

 

Does it define anywhere what majority models means? Determining majority for T is defined, but there are some Mech rules where being the majority does matter (Comptroller, rad furnace counteracting Phage).

Edited August 15 by MagicHat

[MDops]

They can assuming two points.

1. They have implacable advance

2. The weapon doesn't have heavy(x) or ordnance (x)

 

I think only the bolters and flames would fit condition 2 above. I think most of the weapons they can take have heavy of somesort. I don't think the walker trait gets around this

[Khulu]

It was the grav gun in the fist that this came up in regards to.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

12 hours ago, MagicHat said:

I haven't seen anything so far that says template/blast weapons can't snapfire.

You need the Assault trait to make volley fire attacks, so most template/blast weapon can't volley fire... However, hand flamers do have assault, so probably templates can volley fire, and thus snap fire.

Implacable advance just lets you volley fire with any weapon without Heavy or Ordnance rule, so would let heavy flamers volley fire if I am correct.

 

EDIT: Dreadnoughts are still bound to using assault weapons in volley fire, and the Contemptor and Leviathan that do have implacable advance still can't use a weapon with Heavy or Ordnance. I guess Overwatch would let you do so however.

 

Does it define anywhere what majority models means? Determining majority for T is defined, but there are some Mech rules where being the majority does matter (Comptroller, rad furnace counteracting Phage).

But there's also nothing says they can...no Wall of Death or something similar, like in the previous ed.

FAQ and Errata also says nothing about it.

Edited August 15 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf
Put Death instead of Fire. A correction

[MagicHat]

But in the previous edition, Snap Shot had exceptions for templates and wall of death was clearly defined. There is nothing in this edition that clearly states or handles templates differently in a snap shot, so we treat them like any other weapon is treated during snap shots.

 

We know hand flamers have the assault trait, used to fire volley fire. Clearly there is an intent here.

[Brother Kraskor]

13 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Volley fire are snap shots, and I think template and blast weapons cannot do snap shots.

 

The rulebook,anyway, say nothing about it, or I can't find anything about that. It's just a supposition.

I disagree. They actually make a note somewhere telling us not to rely on rules from previous editions - nothing says templates/blasts cannot fire snap shots, so I don't think we can suppose purely based on 2nd ed. 
 

Snap Shots changes the dice roll required on a Hit Test, and can be triggered in a number of ways - simple as that. So for a template, which does not make a Hit Test, it has no effect. For a blast, which does, it changes the roll required. 
 

Your point about 'nothing says they can' based on no Wall of Death - this is a new edition, you've got to take the rules as they are printed. Nothing specifically says Plasma can snap shoot either - but I don't think we need an FAQ there. 

Edited August 15 by Brother Kraskor

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

28 minutes ago, Brother Kraskor said:

I disagree. They actually make a note somewhere telling us not to rely on rules from previous editions - nothing says templates/blasts cannot fire snap shots, so I don't think we can suppose purely based on 2nd ed. 
 

Snap Shots changes the dice roll required on a Hit Test, and can be triggered in a number of ways - simple as that. So for a template, which does not make a Hit Test, it has no effect. For a blast, which does, it changes the roll required. 
 

Your point about 'nothing says they can' based on no Wall of Death - this is a new edition, you've got to take the rules as they are printed. Nothing specifically says Plasma can snap shoot either - but I don't think we need an FAQ there. 

And nothing says about Melta or...because aren't template weapons. They're "normal" weapons, they follow all the rules for distance,sigh, to hit,to wound,...but a template weapon have some exceptions, as don't  need to roll to hit.

So,how we resolve a volley shot with a template weapon, following the rules as they are? As valid is your idea as mine. And we don't have it, at least as previously. 

Personally,I have no plans for add lot of template weapons in my lists, but i need to know if there is a rule or at least an official statement about this, because I have an opinion but other people can have a different one, as you. Or at least, have no idea at all.

 

We need to clarify this point or know where and what the rule is and say,if is not a blank space.

 

I believe the better idea is to send a email to rules section in GW and wait.

[Brother Kraskor]

2 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

And nothing says about Melta or...because aren't template weapons. They're "normal" weapons, they follow all the rules for distance,sigh, to hit,to wound,...but a template weapon have some exceptions, as don't  need to roll to hit.

So,how we resolve a volley shot with a template weapon, following the rules as they are? As valid is your idea as mine. And we don't have it, at least as previously. 

Personally,I have no plans for add lot of template weapons in my lists, but i need to know if there is a rule or at least an official statement about this, because I have an opinion but other people can have a different one, as you. Or at least, have no idea at all.

 

We need to clarify this point or know where and what the rule is and say,if is not a blank space.

 

I believe the better idea is to send a email to rules section in GW and wait.

 

I made the plasma example to illustrate that saying 'it's not in the rules so we can't', especially based on 2nd edition, just isn't helpful. Maybe a better example would be to say 'well, in 2nd ed I got an extra attack on the charge, 3rd says nothing about this - so it must need an FAQ'. I posit that it doesn't, you just have to take 3rd ed as it comes and stop grasping around for concepts like Wall of Death, "normal weapons" etc. when there is no need. 

 

I think it is abundantly clear:

• Volley attack - directs you to make a Shooting Attack (provided you've got an Assault weapon) and to Snap Shoot
• I have a template weapon. How do I make a Shooting Attack with a template weapon? By using the normal rules as laid down - place the template and count the hits. There's no Hit Roll, so no modification from Snap Shooting.
• I have a blast weapon. How do I make a Shooting Attack with a blast weapon? Place it down, make a Hit Roll - but I'm Snap Shooting so that roll is modified. Then continue as normal.

By all means write to GW about it, but for my money the rules are very clear on this and it just takes a bit of reading. I certainly won't be waiting!

[MDops]

Another interesting RAW interaction is that all the allies only have to have a different faction to the main force org.

 

This would imply that you could have a main army of iron hands and multiple mechanicum allies.

 

I suspect this isn't RAI but it's something interesting 

[SlickSamos]

It is intended that you can take multiple Allied Detachments of either the same force or different one (page 281 2nd paragraph). 

 

Auxiliary and Apex detachments must be the same Faction, Army List etc... as the Primary or Allied Detachment that unlocked them (page 280).

 

So Iron Hands with a Salamanders Allied Detachment and a Raven Guard Allied Detachment would be completely fine.  As would be Imperial Fists with a Custodies Allied Detachment and a Solar Auxilia Allied Detachment.

 

So yeah you can take multiple Allied Detachments of Mechanicum if you'd like and that's completely fine.

[Brofist]

The place where it gets funky is that you can take infinite number of allied detachments, of the same faction, provided that its different from your main faction. That's infinite prime command slots, basically (provided its 50% less than you army total)

[SlickSamos]

Well it sucks they left that open to abuse but it is still not as egregious as Dreadnoughts last edition 

 

Going back to templates, blast weapons and the assault rule, I agree with Kraskor, it's just a bit of a headache that they use the same terminology to do different things with each edition and with over a hundred pages to read, things get a bit lost...

[Pacific81]

The FoC initially seems very restrictive, but if you have enough command (especially Consuls with their extra Auxiliary selection), and if you use the Prime slot to select the Logistics option to slot in that extra Dreadnought or Vehicle, you can select more or less anything. I'm going for an off-piste Veterans-only army and it is possible, without needing mandatory units of Troops kicking about.

[Pacific81]

Immediately after posting about how flexible the rules are I come across a restriction haha.

 

Trying to get some Mechanicum Vorax robots (the preying mantis-looking ones) in with my marines. Praevian only allows Castellax, so assume my only way is to add Mechanicum allies?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

4 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

Immediately after posting about how flexible the rules are I come across a restriction haha.

 

Trying to get some Mechanicum Vorax robots (the preying mantis-looking ones) in with my marines. Praevian only allows Castellax, so assume my only way is to add Mechanicum allies?

Yes.

Praevian gives you now just Castellax and Forge Lord only Thallax. The rest of Mechanicum units,as allies.

Edited Tuesday at 02:00 PM by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Valkyrion]

Do vehicles have an innate 6+ repair to shrug off statuses?

I've seen a few videos where i couldn't really ascertain why a vehicle lost a status, but it might have been a legion rule or something and I can't find it in the BBB.

 

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

12 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Do vehicles have an innate 6+ repair to shrug off statuses?

I've seen a few videos where i couldn't really ascertain why a vehicle lost a status, but it might have been a legion rule or something and I can't find it in the BBB.

 

 

 

No, I think they  don't.  Only Rhinos and Land Raiders in the Legiones Astartes army list have auto-repair,  at least in the Libers.

If they are from Iron Hands army, they can have Armatus Necrotechnika +10 pts any vehicle of IH, that gives auto-repair 5+.

 

I don't know now about Solar Auxilia or Mechanicum, I need to check.

Edited Thursday at 08:39 AM by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf