Thousand Sons and 2+ saves.

[Prot]

I don't have the Thousand Sons codex, and I forget the exact wording of the detachment that lets the player ignore AP if the damage is 1. 

 

The problem is that in our group we've been pretty much convinced it's not possible to increase a save from 3+ to 2+. (Typically this is by means of cover.)

 

However the Thousand Sons player in this case is insistent that his detachment rule gets around this and he can get to a 2+ save with his standard Rubrics.

 

Does this sound right? 

[Karhedron]

I think your friend is correct. The relevant rules are as follows:

 

Cover

 

Quote

Each time a ranged attack is allocated to a model that has the Benefit of Cover, add 1 to the saving throw made for that attack (excluding invulnerable saving throws). Models with a Save characteristic of 3+ or better cannot have the Benefit of Cover against attacks with an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0.

 

All is Dust

 

Quote

Each time an attack with an unmodified Damage characteristic of 1 is allocated to a RUBRICAE model from your army, add 1 to any armour saving throw made against that attack.

 

There is no inherent rule preventing a 3+ save being improved to a 2+. This restriction is specific to the Cover rule. All is Dust does not include the restriction so Rubricae do indeed have a 2+ save against 1D weapons.

[Prot]

Sounds good.

As a side note one thing I did find out after searching a bit is that he has been thinking if he uses the -1 damage strat, he can invoke that rule, and I did find out that isn't possible since the rubric rule is only triggered by unmodified damage 1.

 

Well I guess this just got a whole lot uglier for those of us in the group with a strong bolter presence! 

 

(This army is so oppressive to face with infantry.)

 

Further to this: It's the order of operation that had me wondering.

 

What he's doing is getting hit by -1 in cover.

 

He uses cover to get back to a 3+, THEN invokes his detachment rule, getting to a 2+ save by combining the two rules. This was the part I was unsure of.

 

 

Edited 56 minutes ago by Prot

[Karhedron]

32 minutes ago, Prot said:

Further to this: It's the order of operation that had me wondering.

 

What he's doing is getting hit by -1 in cover.

 

He uses cover to get back to a 3+, THEN invokes his detachment rule, getting to a 2+ save by combining the two rules. This was the part I was unsure of.

 

I think that this is OK and would work either way. Because the shot is AP-1, the restriction on cover not boosting a 3+ save does not apply. So whichever rule you apply first, the Rubric ends up getting a 2+ save against the attack while in cover.