Knights and Deathguard get a loving tap from the Nerf bat

[Karhedron]

Looks like the recent string of tournament wins has prompted GW to roll out points updates to the current meta-toppers earlier than planned.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/pundog9r/warhammer-40000-balance-update-knights-and-death-guard/

 

On balance, they look like they have resisted their usual urge to overcompensate. These changes look pretty balanced and should be just enough to make these armies manageable without making them uncompetitive to field. Nice to see the Atropos getting a slightly bigger increase as this chassis always seemed stronger as it had more firepower without compromising its melee output.

Edited 8 hours ago by Karhedron

[Dark Shepherd]

If GW have dropped the nuance pill I am pleasantly surprised

 

"By making these smaller increases across the breadth of units in the codex, it will reduce the number of units in a typical Death Guard list by one or two in the size of games you normally see at tournaments. This will bring them more in line with the rest of the field without overly downtuning any single unit and causing too harmful an impact to the average Death Guard player."

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Not surprising and maybe shakes up the meta a bit

[DemonGSides]

I'm not sure why PBC's got smacked so hard when they aren't that amazing but their ability can proc a lot of nonsense so I can kind of understand it but I bet we see that number go back down. The actual weapons arent that strong to deserve that cost. 

 

The rest of it makes sense. Probably not enough to matter but in aggregate people are gonna have it drop a full drone from their list if not two. I prefer this than making plague Marines more expensive as I'd rather run a lot of them, though now I'll have to be more precious about who gets leaders. 

[Karhedron]

I haven't played against DG since their new Codex dropped but I have seen a lot of PBCs in tournament winning lists so I guess that is a sufficient indication that they need toning down.

[DemonGSides]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

I haven't played against DG since their new Codex dropped but I have seen a lot of PBCs in tournament winning lists so I guess that is a sufficient indication that they need toning down.

 

But those lists aren't winning purely because of the PBC, but because of contagion and death shroud. PBC is a vehicle for adding more contagion. And honestly they have been falling out of favor of more drones and more poxwalkers. 

 

It feels like a slow response. PBC were everywhere at the beginning of Codex DG but aren't as prevalent now.  They still show up but so does everything in the codex except the terrible characters and blightlords.  210 is a non starter for them. 200 is probably fair. I don't think they were the problematic part of the DG compared to the insanity that is death shroud+LoC or the blast gun drones. 

Edited 7 hours ago by DemonGSides

[jaxom]

I heard PBC in Mortarion’s Hammer was oppressing?

[Bouargh]

Adjusting Imperial Knights points values while the Codex is on its way ( to be released between now and later, I know....) is a bit puzzeling. Anyway, it may also indicate that the release is mor elatter than now and/or that the codex is globally unchanged vs current rules (ie the new knight might not be taht of a game changer)

 

The quote for the reason behind point adjustment is even more puzzeling to me as it leads potentially to an increase of the number of Arminger chassis if it brings player to the edge of getting to get rid of one big boy because of lack of a few tenths of points to pay for it. I see this maybe at expanse of the Loyalists big robots which have less variety on that matter than the Wardog packs.  I was personally convinced that Arminger heavy forces were the issue, more than big boyz. But I am probably wrong...

 

Quote

As a result, we've changed the points of the bigger Chaos and Imperial Knights by between 15 and 30 points each, to bring the total number of big Knights down

 

[Focslain]

By increasing the points on the bigger knights, that leaves less points for armigars, especially in Imperial lists. 

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

I heard PBC in Mortarion’s Hammer was oppressing?

 

Oppressive is probably a bit of hyperbole but sure it was good in a single detatchment. I don't think that deserves a 15 point increase. 200 points keeps it so that you're dedicating almost a quarter of your game plan to two of them while also making it viable to fit other units in.

 

210 is just "We will lower this in 3-6 months since you have started taking defilers and helbrutes instead, also we have increased the cost of those." Whack a mole. Just make it 200 which feels good, is a round number for their inane list building set up, and isn't punishing anyone who wants to run one or two in a non Mortarions Chosen list (which is probably where it's most oppressive, as it can spread affliction really easily. Hammer just gives free affliction which isn't helpful for the PBC, but is helpful for Death shroud).

 

Just feels like one of those changes you know is going to be reverted within 6 months so why bother. 

[Bouargh]

1 hour ago, Focslain said:

By increasing the points on the bigger knights, that leaves less points for armigars, especially in Imperial lists. 

 

Youa re right; by increasing the points of approx 30 per each big chassis, it means that on average the adjustment variable will be getting rid of one Arminger chassis to balance the change. An average of +30pts increase in cost is indeed probably not big enough to lead too often to situations where you have to remove a big knight and compensate by 2 Armingers to absorb the changes in points value...