=][= ALLOWING DISCUSSION OF NON-GW GAMES =][=

[Gillyfish]

 

=][= ALLOWING NON-WARHAMMER 40,000 GAMES AS PART OF YOUR WARHAMMER 40,000 HOBBYING AT THE B&C =][=

 

The Warhammer 40,000* hobby is a subset of the tabletop miniature wargaming hobby. The overall hobby consists of several basic elements:

• Modelling (including converting, assembling, and painting of gaming tables/boards, terrain, and models)
• Gaming (including discussion of rules, tactics, and actually playing the games)
• Lore (including fiction and videos)

 

The Warhammer 40,000 hobby is very distinctive in all three of these elements, from the recognisability of the models to the rulesets to the expansive setting and its rich background. For many years, we have allowed members to use third-party models in their content here at the Bolter & Chainsword. Our only requirement has been that such models have to appear to fit in the setting through some combination of conversion and painting. To further support hobbyist creativity, we are going to widen things out a bit more.

 

Members are now allowed to include content about/for non-Warhammer 40,000 games in their B&C content as long as the usage is clearly in furtherance of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby.

 

What does this mean? What follows is descriptive guidance to address the intent. You are expected to use your best judgment in adhering to that intent.

 

An easy example is using non-Warhammer 40,000 games to play out games in the Warhammer 40,000 setting, such as the following:

• Using Grimdark Future Firefight or Stargrave in lieu of Warhammer 40,000: Kill Team
• Using A Billion Suns in lieu of Battlefleet Gothic
• Using Aliens: Another Glorious Day in the Corps in lieu of Space Hulk
• Using Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game in lieu of Aeronautica Imperialis

 

Players might even be a little more creative, doing things like:

• Creating chess sets representing Warhammer 40,000 (sub)factions
• Using Warhammer 40,000 models to represent the Survivor and demons in Demon Ship
• Adapting the rules for The Silver Bayonet to represent battles between Inquisitors and heretics (e.g., Inq28) (most likely involving creating custom rules for various factions)
• Using the rules for Gaslands Refueled in lieu of Gorkamorka
• Using Dropzone Commander rules but Legions Imperialis models and setting, or Dropfleet Commander rules to represent 40k starship combat (you'd most likely need to source some appropriate 40 or 30K-style models though)

 

Regardless, the models used in the game should be appropriate Warhammer 40,000 models or converted to appear as such, and narratives for models and battle/session reports should be appropriate to the Warhammer 40,000 setting.

 

Following the above through, battle reports of games played within the 40k setting(s), but using alternative rulesets would make perfect sense on the forum. It also follows that you might explain the force composition and what that counts as in the setting and the game (so this is a tactical squad, but for the ruleset counts as X, or we used the rules for a Jade class cruiser from Dropfleet to count as the Eldar Eclipse class cruiser). There's definitely am element of common sense that needs to be used here (see below for what is not allowed) and the intention is that this should allow members reading your post to understand the forces, their composition and how the game played out. As a rule of thumb, if you realise you are writing lots about the other universe or ruleset instead of the 40k game, then it has probably gone beyond the level needed for explanation of the flow of the battle report.

 

So what kinds of things will we definitely not allow? Again, we'll be descriptive here.

• Using non-Warhammer 40,000 models in a non-Warhammer 40,000 game (e.g., using Battle Tech: Gothic rules and models wouldn't be appropriate as a substitute for Adeptus Titanicus, even if you refer to those Ironclad Alliance models as the Legio Crucis and those  Draconic Imperium models as the Legio Magna)
• Discussing rules, tactics, or strategies for non-Warhammer 40,000 games (beyond that discussion necessary to explain force composition and/or something that happens in a battle/session report)**
• Discussing news, rumors, or speculation about a non-Warhammer 40,000 game

 

This content may be posted in the places where you would post the equivalent Warhammer 40,000 content. For example, if you use the Infinity rules to play a small-scale skirmish in the Warhammer 40,000 setting, you could post that in either the + KILL TEAM + forum or your blog, or both. Likewise, if you use the Hardwar rules for your battles in the Age of Darkness, you could post that in the + EPIC SCALE HORUS HERESY GAMES + forum or your blog, or both. Similarly, a project to convert some Mandalorian Super Commandos from Star Wars: Legion into a Tempestus Aquilons kill team, you could post that in your blog (preferred) with outreach topics in the + ASTRA MILITARUM / IMPERIALIS AUXILIA +, + KILL TEAM +, and + HALL OF HONOUR + forums. In cases where the game you're playing doesn't really have an analog in the stable of Games Workshop games, you can always use the + OTHER GAMES + forum, the Other Games categories in the Gallery and Downloads features, the Tactica/Homegrown Rules category in the Articles feature, and the Game Play category in the Blogs feature (depending on the type of content you're submitting). We will not be creating forums for non-Warhammer 40,000 games.

 

Remember, the intent here is to loosen things up a bit to better support our members' enjoyment of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby (not the tabletop miniature wargaming or board gaming hobbies). The allowance for non-Warhammer 40,000 games is only when those games are used as an expression of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby. In cases where it's pretty clear that someone is trying to sneak something in that doesn't meet the criteria, that content will be removed. If you have non-Warhammer 40,000 content that you would like to share here at the B&C, it's always recommended that you contact the staff beforehand to ensure that what you want to do will be allowed.

 

If you have any questions about this update to our community rules, feel free to ask them here. The community rules will point to this topic for now, but we will update those rules as we develop better guidance based on any questions that are asked here. So please do ask!

 

 

 

* "Warhammer 40,000" also includes the Horus Heresy setting.

 

** Most games have some form of online support, whether it's a Discord server, the publisher's website, or places like Board Game Geek. Hobbyists are recommended to consult such external sites for issues about non-Warhammer 40,000 games.

 

[Pacific81]

I did have a small pause then as I thought other rulesets are not permissible, but it does sound like that is allowed? A few other users and myself have been using One Page Rules for 40k and Kill Team (using 40k/Necromunda) minis for example.

 

Using BFG rules for 40k minis is something I would love to see! Funnily enough, the first set of Adeptus Titanicus rules were based off of a WW1/WW2 battleship game apparently, as were BFG rules, you can see the base mechanics there of broadsides, optimum ranges etc

[Gillyfish]

One Page Rules is a ruleset that we specifically had in mind with this, given that they effectively publish lists that allow you to use 40k inspired armies. We are aware that they are a popular ruleset that a lot of people use as an alternative to 10th, for example and that's a good example of the sort of thing we do want to capture; different ways of exploring the universe and playing games.

 

Elements of BFG certainly came out of third edition Epic (if you don't count Titan Legions as third edition, but rather 2.5) where there were firepower values, etc. That mechanic certainly carried through as did the concept of blast markers (not templates), although in BFG they denoted areas of weapons' discharge and could knock down shields rather than affect morale. However, it would not surprise me if there were elements of battleship games in there too.

[twopounder]

Not trying to be difficult, but this is a bit confusing. What is the material difference between using BattleTech models for Titanicus game and using StarGrave for Kill Team? It appears from above that BattleTech is not allowed but StarGrave is in terms of models? Titanicus is allowed on the forums currently as its a 40k era/universe game. It is very specifically only allowed in the scope of 40k and not the specialist games?

[phandaal]

14 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

One Page Rules is a ruleset that we specifically had in mind with this, given that they effectively publish lists that allow you to use 40k inspired armies.

 

This is how we use this ruleset in my area. The games are very much "40k with a different set of rules." Although we may have had a couple of matches of Sisters of Battle vs "Necrons" that looked suspiciously like robots from a far away galaxy. 

[Urauloth]

Hell yeah. I got into OPR exclusively to use it for Heresy-era skirmish battles and it's cool to be able to post about it.

[Gillyfish]

11 hours ago, twopounder said:

Not trying to be difficult, but this is a bit confusing. What is the material difference between using BattleTech models for Titanicus game and using StarGrave for Kill Team? It appears from above that BattleTech is not allowed but StarGrave is in terms of models? Titanicus is allowed on the forums currently as its a 40k era/universe game. It is very specifically only allowed in the scope of 40k and not the specialist games?

 

Questions are fair. The point of this is to basically allow people to play games from the 40k universe (or 30k) with alternative rulesets. Stargrave is pretty miniatures agnostic as a ruleset, so if you wanted to use it as an alternative skirmish ruleset for marines vs Orks (for example) then that would not be a problem. If you were using Titanicus rules and a mix of GW, third party and Battletech models for a game, but it was still clearly Titanicus you were playing (and intended to be) that would probably be okay. If you were using the Titanicus rules and only Battletech models then that might not be (but discuss it with a mod first); that feels more like a game of Battletech with an alternative ruleset than a game of Titanicus with alternative models to me, if that makes sense. However, if those models had been converted to fit the 40/30k background then, again, that might make for a different story.

 

That's why we have gone with descriptive examples rather than hard and fast rules. We want to support community creativity, but there's a certain amount of shared responsibility in not abusing the option that comes with it as a quid pro quo.

[Brother Tyler]

We are currently working on revisions to our community rules to incorporate the changes that @Gillyfish announced above. We've tried to be more descriptive than prescriptive in this, but we want the description to be as clear as possible, both in terms of identifying what is allowed and making clear the kinds of things that aren't allowed. This is a significant change to the site and we expect a lot of fine-tuning to take place as we collectively learn what works and what doesn't. Ultimately, we're trying to open the aperture as wide as possible in terms of enabling members to enjoy the Warhammer 40,000 hobby.

 

Are there any more questions/comments? Your questions/comments will help us to nail the rules revision down.

 

 

 

And please don't give me any positive reactions for this change - it was @Gillyfish's idea. He's the one who deserves your gratitude. If you want to give positive reactions, give them to him in one of his posts above.  If you don't like this expansion, feel free to give your negative reactions to me.

[JeffJedi]

Maybe I could come up with a few breakdowns and you could elaborate on if these are in line with your ideas and meanings?

 

40k Universe but with One page rules: seems a sure thing.

 

Necromunda  rules but with Dark Eldar instead of on Necromunda: seems within the guidelines for a fan project.

 

Space Hulk rules but with zombie apocalypse with humans: If set in modern day, no. If Imperial Guard or something like them, yes.

 

Blood Bowl games but with fully 40k figures conversations: I'd love to see something that creative allowed.

 

Chess using 40k models: This is exactly the same idea as the Blood Bowl idea in spirit, so if you allow this, why not that, eh?

 

The Barns and Noble and the Target games: This, I believe already falls under the "Other Games"  sections of the B&C.

 

Older Editions of games: I'd have one thread for discussions of these for sure, no need for whole forums.

 

The Unification of Terra /The Great Crusade / The Scouring Eras using HH 3.0 rules: Seems like a perfectly reasonable fan project.

 

I've tried to come up with some ideas that could be rejected or approved purely as examples to clear things up.

 

[Gillyfish]

Absolutely.

40 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

40k Universe but with One page rules: seems a sure thing.

 

Yes, in fact it's one of the examples in the original post.

 

40 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

Necromunda  rules but with Dark Eldar instead of on Necromunda: seems within the guidelines for a fan project.

 

Yes. Both are within the 40K universe. The small scale engagement might fit the concept of a Dark Eldar raiding party rather nicely.

 

41 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

Space Hulk rules but with zombie apocalypse with humans: If set in modern day, no. If Imperial Guard or something like them, yes.

 

Your views on both examples are correct. It needs to be within the 40/30K universe to fit.

 

42 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

Blood Bowl games but with fully 40k figures conversations: I'd love to see something that creative allowed.

 

This makes sense, but you would probably need a complete conversion to the 40K setting. It would probably not be acceptable to have your Space Marine team playing against Lizardmen and put pictures of that on the Board, for example, although your converted Space Marine team would still be cool to see (I actually recall someone had converted marines in the colours of the Six Nations rugby teams several years ago; the ball was a melta bomb...). However, if you had two teams and an appropriately grim-dark pitchh then this would be fine, from my perspective.

 

47 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

The Barns and Noble and the Target games: This, I believe already falls under the "Other Games"  sections of the B&C.

 

I am not completely familiar with these as I live in the UK, but, form what I have heard, they are set within the 40k universe, so yes, they would fit under Other Games (for rules), as would Space Crusade, Space Fleet, Ultramarine and the like.

 

49 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

Older Editions of games: I'd have one thread for discussions of these for sure, no need for whole forums.

 

We already have Oldhammer clubs on the forum specifically for this. 

 

50 minutes ago, JeffJedi said:

The Unification of Terra /The Great Crusade / The Scouring Eras using HH 3.0 rules: Seems like a perfectly reasonable fan project.

 

Yes, and would be absolutely amazing to see (hint, hint).

 

The key thing about the above is that they are using the appropriate setting. They should all be using models that are appropriate to the setting too, whether GW, converted, or sourced from elsewhere but which fit within the setting's aesthetic. The latter is where there is a bit of a blurred line and judgement comes in as, for example, you might be able to make battletech models fit the 40k aesthetic, but you would want to ensure that that was clearly the intention (so probably a fair bit of conversion).

[phandaal]

4 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

We already have Oldhammer clubs on the forum specifically for this. 

 

Would something like Prohammer fall under the "Oldhammer" umbrella, because it is a fan conversion of older editions of 40k?

[Gillyfish]

I have to be honest and say that I don't know much about Prohammer. Tell me more - maybe PM me?

 

Overall, if it is 40K in background and models, then it would fit within the forum's remit. The broader question might be where best to discuss it.