New Calgar, Sicarius, and Victrix Guard miniatures

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm liking the look so far, some really nice kits for the Ultramarines. It would be nice for them to have their own supplement, there's certainly quite a bit of stuff in the range.

 

Next edition I expect intercessors to essentially be tactical marines, as well some sort of new devastator squad. I could also see them making a new multipart kit that has both the flamers and the plasma guns to retire the current ETB Infernus kit and the Hellblaster kit, that would be straightforward to make that a dual kit, or add some other new weapon option.

[DemonGSides]

Double post

Edited 23 hours ago by DemonGSides
Woops!

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

In a perfect world, every chapter would have a bunch of unique characters and units.

I'm just saying that realistically this won't happen. Meanwhile the Horus Heresy has a large range of upgrade sprues, and certain units only exists by combining multiple kits.

And right now, the Black Templar vehicle variants only exist by combining the models with the upgrade sprue which unlocks the Multi Melta. Same thing with the Blood Angels Death Company.

 

So for the likes of Imperial Fists, Salamanders, a unique unit we can build via upgrade sprue is better than no unit at all.

 

 

 

I don't think a perfect world involves ~10 Space Marine Subfactions, at all.

 

Upgrade Sprues should be used to make units more personal; not used for making specific units.  This inflates the cost of kits; you've gotta buy a base kit, and then also an upgrade sprue.  This is anti-consumer behavior.  It's gross and shouldn't be the standard.  "You must pay more money for a worse product" is not an ideal I think ANYONE in the hobby wants.

 

I know how it works right now, I quite literally was lamenting that fact.  I thought that was pretty obvious based on what was written.

 

And I'm directly saying; no it isn't; sometimes having no unit is actually better, because then your upgrade sprue gets used for thematic and fluffy things, not making a piss poor version of a bespoke unit.  Getting a upgrade sprue unit is a feels bad, especially when that unit A) Underperforms on the battlefield and B) is a far worse physical representation of what we had in the past.  I'd rather have upgrade sprues that were good for making my regular intercessors into fancier, somewhat cool looking BA intercessors, than have to use that upgrade sprue and all of it's design space making a unit of Jump Pack Assault Intercessors into a :cuss:ty mockery of a unit that was a lot cooler when it was firstborn.

And I'm saying that as someone who likes Primaris!  I just want, y'know, BESPOKE Primaris stuff, not just "Add some keychains, bam, these JPAI are now Death Company!"  That route is boring as hell.

Edited 22 hours ago by DemonGSides

[jaxom]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I could see Tactical Intercessors being a thing - the current kit is almost 10 years old, and Tactical marines were regularly refreshed. Although in general I really don't care much for a single special and heavy weapon in the squad - I'd rather have my mobility and bolt rifle profiles. The unit is a lot better now than any Tactical squad has ever been and the way it plays is a lot more dynamic, but despite this it's still not a guaranteed pick for an army lol.

 

I'd like an updated kit because 3 rifle options for everyone is wasted space nowadays. I could see maybe some different special weapon options, though the underslung grenade launcher fits their jack-of-all-trades status. I don't think heavy weapons will make their way back in - looking at the Guard update. 

 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

In a perfect world, every chapter would have a bunch of unique characters and units.

I hope not, though I suppose it depends on "bunch." I think every chapter of the big 5 (including Ultramarines) should only have two special character. One for the Chapter's culture and one for the being weird. I think Ultramarines break this mold because they have poster-status and a number of BL character books.

 

I think there's too much focus on unique characters and units, and not enough on how the Codex options fit into the big 9. I like that Captain Acheran is just a Phobos Captain and Agamemnon is just a Terminator Captain. I think Tyranic War Veterans are Sternguard with more 'nid bits on their armor. 

 

[Orange Knight]

Oh lord.... Guilliman is definitely getting a new model lol

[Indy Techwisp]

9 minutes ago, jaxom said:

I'd like an updated kit because 3 rifle options for everyone is wasted space nowadays. I could see maybe some different special weapon options, though the underslung grenade launcher fits their jack-of-all-trades status. I don't think heavy weapons will make their way back in - looking at the Guard update. 

 

The Intercessor Scope/Mag bits don't take up that much space but if they're not going to have rules anymore (outside Killteam) then they could just be made whole guns and free up some space. Probably not enough for another special weapon or 2 tho.

 

The idea of a "Tactical Intercessor" unit would be interesting but it would need something different compared to the normal Intercessor unit (and probably wouldn't have Intercessor in the name).

Honestly I expect we just get the kit Primaris'd but with some older MK detailing and Helmets and still called Tactical Marines.

As for what it would do differently, I'm not sure. Maybe they get Devastators rolled in and they become a SoB Dominions style unit, idk.

[Mogger351]

20 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Oh lord.... Guilliman is definitely getting a new model lol

I wouldn't get ahead of yourself on that one, I know the rumours, but this likely just relates to the fact they weren't supposed to be shown and discussed yet.

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I don't think a perfect world involves ~10 Space Marine Subfactions, at all.

Oh come on now, if we're allowing the concept of the "perfect" world, then surely every faction has 10 subfactions with plenty of personalized kits.

[Crimson Longinus]

50 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Oh lord.... Guilliman is definitely getting a new model lol

 

 

I hope it is as a corpse on Lorgar's base.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

I hope it is as a corpse on Lorgar's base.

Lorgar's getting added as an Angel-looking corpse on Daemon Birb Corax's base.

[Blindhamster]

42 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

The Intercessor Scope/Mag bits don't take up that much space but if they're not going to have rules anymore (outside Killteam) then they could just be made whole guns and free up some space. Probably not enough for another special weapon or 2 tho.

 

The idea of a "Tactical Intercessor" unit would be interesting but it would need something different compared to the normal Intercessor unit (and probably wouldn't have Intercessor in the name).

Honestly I expect we just get the kit Primaris'd but with some older MK detailing and Helmets and still called Tactical Marines.

As for what it would do differently, I'm not sure. Maybe they get Devastators rolled in and they become a SoB Dominions style unit, idk.

I think they'll roll intercessors and tacticals into one. tactical squad will be the name, it'll be similar to current tactical squad, but use bolt rifles and have the option for grenade launcher under special weapons, but also have the option for some other special weapons. 

 

incidentally, thats when assault intercessors will just become assault squad, and otherwise be the same as current assault intercessors.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

The Vixtrix having bolt carbines (aka normal bolters) is interesting. Maybe they’ll keep Intercessors and Tacticals separate by giving tacticals the carbines and some special/heavy options, and keep the intercessors with bolt rifles.

[Orange Knight]

5 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

The Vixtrix having bolt carbines (aka normal bolters) is interesting. Maybe they’ll keep Intercessors and Tacticals separate by giving tacticals the carbines and some special/heavy options, and keep the intercessors with bolt rifles.

 

The Carbines are also on Reivers, as well as several named characters and generic HQ units.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Honestly I expect we just get the kit Primaris'd but with some older MK detailing and Helmets and still called Tactical Marines.

As for what it would do differently, I'm not sure.

If they went back to 5-10 models, they could get their original Index rule back: shoot and charge in a turn they fell back.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

7 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

The Carbines are also on Reivers, as well as several named characters and generic HQ units.

Yeah and they’re rad. I’m saying it would be a way to differentiate the tacticals and intercessors.

[307kg]

I love the look of the old school bolters. I think they fit the scale of marine bodies better than the larger bolt rifles. Ive been very happy to see them introduced back in new kits. (Space Wolves Blood Claws and Grey Hunters, Uriel and now the Vixtrix)

Edited 19 hours ago by 307kg

[Marshal Reinhard]

28 minutes ago, 307kg said:

I love the look of the old school bolters. I think they fit the scale of marine bodies better than the larger bolt rifles. Ive been very happy to see them introduced back in new kits. (Space Wolves Blood Claws and Grey Hunters, Capt Centos and now the Vixtrix)

Captain Centos has a full size auto bolter with a stock, making his arguably the biggest bolt rifle model that doesn't come with "Heavy" in the name. Maybe you were thinking of Ventris?

[Wispy]

9 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

in actual fact the ultramarine range is as significant as blood angels at this point really

 

victrix - sanguinary guard

ferrein - blood angels captain

titus - sanguinary priest

tigarius - mephiston

ventris - sanguinor

sicarius - astorath

Calgar - Dante 

guilliman - lemartes

upgrade sprue - upgrade sprue 

 

I guess blood angels still have the old baal, so let’s equate that to gravis Calgar for the moment.

 

this is just the traditional scale of the Ultramarines range though, which predates the Blood Angels 5th/6th edition refresh. despite the addition of a primarch it has actually contracted slightly. 

 

edit: I forgot cassius.

Edited 19 hours ago by Wispy

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

In a perfect world many things would be different. This is far from a perfect world. 

 

It would be nice if GW just did vanilla Space Marines and then upgrade sprues but alas. 

 

As a Space marine only player who has no interest in anyone or anything that isn't Imperial Fists, even I find it frustrating and suffocating how the Astartes crowd out the other armies so much. But I understand it. GW is a business and Space Marines are the most successful and profitable part of that business. 

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

I think they'll roll intercessors and tacticals into one. tactical squad will be the name, it'll be similar to current tactical squad, but use bolt rifles and have the option for grenade launcher under special weapons, but also have the option for some other special weapons. 

 

incidentally, thats when assault intercessors will just become assault squad, and otherwise be the same as current assault intercessors.

 

I just don't see the "obviously named this way because it's easy to trademark/copyright 'intercessor squad' and it's way harder to trademark/copyright 'tactical squad' in a meangingful way" going away any time, that's why I think a lot of this "Oh we are totally getting tacticals and devastators" back as mostly wishful thinking for most people.

 

I bet it's just a new "Intercessor Squad" box that has a lot of the weirder options removed that got removed with the streamlining of those datasheets/the game in general, and come with more bits to fold in older armor.  That would make more sense with their current design paradigm than basically eliminating Intercessors entirely. Similar datasheet to what they've currently got, no specialist weapons at all.  And that's assuming there's a new Intercessor sprue coming, which I was not very convinced of until this new Marneus Calgar came about.

Edited 19 hours ago by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I just don't see the "obviously named this way because it's easy to trademark/copyright 'intercessor squad' and it's way harder to trademark/copyright 'tactical squad' in a meangingful way" going away any time, that's why I think a lot of this "Oh we are totally getting tacticals and devastators" back as mostly wishful thinking for most people.

 

I bet it's just a new "Intercessor Squad" box that has a lot of the weirder options removed that got removed with the streamlining of those datasheets/the game in general, and come with more bits to fold in older armor.  That would make more sense with their current design paradigm than basically eliminating Intercessors entirely. Similar datasheet to what they've currently got, no specialist weapons at all.

 

I expect something like Tacticals to stay in some form.

"Tactical Intercessors" would fit as a Trademarkable name like Assault Intercessors is, but I do think they will remain a seperate thing from normal Intercessors and get a unique name (Inb4 Tacticors or something equally weird).

 

A Bolt Carbine and Special/Heavy Weapon squad would be an interesting take on it imo.

[307kg]

20 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Captain Centos has a full size auto bolter with a stock, making his arguably the biggest bolt rifle model that doesn't come with "Heavy" in the name. Maybe you were thinking of Ventris?

My mistake I was!

[Crimson Longinus]

For modelling reasons I would like to keep Intercessors and Tacticals as separate units. Intercessors have bolt rifles, Tacticals have bolt carbines and perhaps special weapons. Like SW now have both Grey Hunters and Intercessors. Granted, from balancing perspective it will be a tad difficult as the units are quite similar. But I always like when there is more choice of the basic troops of the army, so there is more variety.  

[Blindhamster]

20 minutes ago, Wispy said:

this is just the traditional scale of the Ultramarines range though, which predates the Blood Angels 5th/6th edition refresh. despite the addition of a primarch it has actually contracted slightly. 

 

edit: I forgot cassius.

 

actually. (feel free to insert meme if desired)

 

Sicarius, Telion and chronus were both 5th edition additions, so in the same boat as sanguinary guard, astorath, sanguinor, death company dreadnaughts, stormravens and librarian dreadnaughts.

 

And if we're going by "traditional" units (assuming the idea was we were talking 4th edition as your benchmark was "pre 5th edition BA refresh"). 

Blood Angels had: 

- Dante

- Tycho

- Mephiston

- Corbulo

- Lemartes

- Death Company

- Honour Guard (unique jump pack command squad)

- Veteran Assault squads (before anyone else had jump pack veterans) - this one admittedly didn't have a unique kit

- Baal Predator

- Furioso Dreadnaught

 

During 4th edition, Ultramarines had:

- Calgar

- Ultramarines Honour Guard

- Cassius

- Tigarius

- Tyrannic War Vets

 

But anyway, none of the above (your point or mine here) are particularly important. The point I was making originally to Ishagu Orange Knight was that the Ultramarine range is roughly equivalent to the current Blood Angel range, contrary to their point that they still somehow had less than the big 4 (though they do have less that DA and SW).

 

 

 

[jaxom]

Has anyone checked in on the Grey Knight players? I’m worried they may do something extreme.