New Calgar, Sicarius, and Victrix Guard miniatures

[Crimson Longinus]

1 minute ago, jaxom said:

Has anyone checked in on the Grey Knight players? I’m worried they may do something extreme.

There still are Grey Knight players?

[Evil Eye]

6 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I mentioned a few years back that we'll start getting updates to existing Primarchs before we get models for people like Corax or Vulcan...

Both of those are things that should happen around the same time- never.

[jaxom]

37 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

There still are Grey Knight players?

Ooph da, definitely not the fair weather ones.

[Jukkiz]

What´s next?

Gabriel set solo release with Corbulo?

Funnily Sicarius is downgrade from original, lack of head/hand options is weird and just... 2 bare heads is extra weird. 

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Crimson Longinus said:

There still are Grey Knight players?

 

I used to be one of them, a few years ago I sold my GK army.

[Hfran Morkai]

5 hours ago, Jukkiz said:

What´s next?

Gabriel set solo release with Corbulo?

Funnily Sicarius is downgrade from original, lack of head/hand options is weird and just... 2 bare heads is extra weird. 

 

By original you mean the dual lightning claw "come at me bro" one?

 

I really liked that mini.

[SalamandersBro]

I really like these mini's. Will add to my Ultramarines army.

[HeadlessCross]

13 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

The Vixtrix having bolt carbines (aka normal bolters) is interesting. Maybe they’ll keep Intercessors and Tacticals separate by giving tacticals the carbines and some special/heavy options, and keep the intercessors with bolt rifles.

I REALLY hope not. The S4 AP- weapons are really reallllllly bad on top of the inability to specialize the squad into any target. 

 

The Deathwatch Fortis Killteam proves why the two profiles just need to be combined into one. It's a good datasheet and isn't even CLOSE to being broken, and that's a base squad where the Bolt weapons are S5 AP-2 Lethal Hits for no good reason. 

Edited 16 hours ago by HeadlessCross

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

I REALLY hope not. The S4 AP- weapons are really reallllllly bad on top of the inability to specialize the squad into any target. 

 

The Deathwatch Fortis Killteam proves why the two profiles just need to be combined into one. It's a good datasheet and isn't even CLOSE to being broken, and that's a base squad where the Bolt weapons are S5 AP-2 Lethal Hits for no good reason. 

I'd rather go the other way and dial back the arms race so s4 ap- becomes normal again 

[Orange Knight]

I was browsing reddit, the infamous cesspit, and I came across a post that raised a good point:

 

The box for the new Calgar has been revealed, and it makes very specific mention of his armour. The current Gravis model is currently pulled from the UK store, but this has happened before when models have been re-boxed.

I suspect that there will indeed be two Calgar models available, one in the armour of Heracles, and one in the armour of Antilocus.

 

And on a personal note, I have decided to potentially sell my Horus Heresy army to fund an Ultramarine project in 40k, but that would depend on whether a new 40k Guilliman model is released. I really love the 30k version, but I don't feel the aesthetic of the 40k model fully matches the Primaris marines in the way the Lion does.

 

 

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Ye

48 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I was browsing reddit, the infamous cesspit, and I came across a post that raised a good point:

 

The box for the new Calgar has been revealed, and it makes very specific mention of his armour. The current Gravis model is currently pulled from the UK store, but this has happened before when models have been re-boxed.

I suspect that there will indeed be two Calgar models available, one in the armour of Heracles, and one in the armour of Antilocus.

 

And on a personal note, I have decided to potentially sell my Horus Heresy army to fund an Ultramarine project in 40k, but that would depend on whether a new 40k Guilliman model is released. I really love the 30k version, but I don't feel the aesthetic of the 40k model fully matches the Primaris marines in the way the Lion does.

 

 

 

Yeah that pretty much seals the deal. It's the old "Calgar in terminator armor" "Calgar in power armor" again. No reason to specify the armor if that's the only version to be available. You don't see Logan Grimnar's model specified as anything other than him (Though i believe the sled version specified it being the sled version...)

[Casual Heresy]

I think you might be right @Orange Knight.

 

If they do go down the two versions route, I hope they make the rules for the two very different. I'd like to see the current one with his bodyguard become more of a strategist role, buffing the army as a whole, and the new terminator version becoming a beat stick who can solo a Lord of Skulls like that page in the marvel comic. But I'd really like it to be a hard choice between the two.

 

I'm diving back in to my Ultramarines thanks to this. Got Sergeant Metaurus' Bladeguard squad on the desk right now, finally kitbashing Decimus Felix out of the cheap Calgar I picked up from the Imperium magazine, and have additional parts on the way so I can field all of the Victrix Guard models I have as another Bladeguard squad.

Edited 11 hours ago by Casual Heresy

[Ripper.McGuirl]

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I REALLY hope not. The S4 AP- weapons are really reallllllly bad on top of the inability to specialize the squad into any target. 

 

The Deathwatch Fortis Killteam proves why the two profiles just need to be combined into one. It's a good datasheet and isn't even CLOSE to being broken, and that's a base squad where the Bolt weapons are S5 AP-2 Lethal Hits for no good reason. 

I'm really just talking about aesthetics. I think the normal boltguns just look way better in general, and the bolt rifles can be their own thing. I havne't played 40k regularly since 6th edition (heresy and necromunda since then), so I have no idea where things land stats-wise. But in general: primaris look better with firstborn weapons than with primaris weapons.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

I'm really just talking about aesthetics. I think the normal boltguns just look way better in general, and the bolt rifles can be their own thing. I havne't played 40k regularly since 6th edition (heresy and necromunda since then), so I have no idea where things land stats-wise. But in general: primaris look better with firstborn weapons than with primaris weapons.

 

Idk about better, but I use the Death Company Bolt guns from the previous firstborn box as Heavy Bolt Pistols for my Primaris death company and you really can't tell a difference.

 

I do think bolt rifles ended up a little TOO long, but big weapons are also cool.

[Crimson Longinus]

I like the new bolt weapons aside the heavy bolt pistols that look too much like normal bolters. 

[Orange Knight]

I think the new Bolt Weapons look a lot better than the old, it's not even close for me. The bigger rifles look perfect in the hands of Marines - and that applies to Bolt Rifles, Heavy Bolt Rifles, Plasma Rifles, Melta Rifles, etc.

The smaller carbines have a place, as a small SMG/Carbine would in real life, but I don't miss the old Bolters as the general weapon at all. The DNA of the weapons is still obvious to see.

[HeadlessCross]

7 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I'd rather go the other way and dial back the arms race so s4 ap- becomes normal again 

That was NEVER the norm. Nobody has created a list and thought, "I need more Bolter shooting". Did y'all forget how bad S4 AP5 Rapid Fire was for 3rd-7th? 

[jaxom]

9 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

That was NEVER the norm. Nobody has created a list and thought, "I need more Bolter shooting". Did y'all forget how bad S4 AP5 Rapid Fire was for 3rd-7th? 

I used a lot of bolters and stormbolters to deal with Imperial Guard and Orks during 3rd.

[DemonGSides]

Sure, but the game has gotten a lot Tougher since then; having two full factions that basically don't dip below T8 means that a S4 bolter is wounding those factions, at best, on a 6+.

 

Doesn't really feel healthy when you put it in those terms. And making the knights lower toughness is also a non starter as their fans will be apoplectic. It wasn't even a month ago where it was intimated that I was a bad person for suggesting that the Super heavies are warping the game. People love their big robots, to the detriment of the game as it stands.

 

There's a couple of options to fix the dichotomy, but "Keep bolters as chaffe clearing only" isn't one of em. I like the idea of a more powerful bolter, as right now they are technically better than a lasgun, but practically the same against a pretty wide slice of the game. 

Edited 7 hours ago by DemonGSides

[HeadlessCross]

12 minutes ago, jaxom said:

I used a lot of bolters and stormbolters to deal with Imperial Guard and Orks during 3rd.

Highly doubt considering Storm Bolters were one of the worst weapons you could purchase vs using Flamers instead. 

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Sure, but the game has gotten a lot Tougher since then; having two full factions that basically don't dip below T8 means that a S4 bolter is wounding those factions, at best, on a 6+.

 

Doesn't really feel healthy when you put it in those terms. And making the knights lower toughness is also a non starter as their fans will be apoplectic. It wasn't even a month ago where it was intimated that I was a bad person for suggesting that the Super heavies are warping the game. People love their big robots, to the detriment of the game as it stands.

 

There's a couple of options to fix the dichotomy, but "Keep bolters as chaffe clearing only" isn't one of em. I like the idea of a more powerful bolter, as right now they are technically better than a lasgun, but practically the same against a pretty wide slice of the game. 

 

26 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

That was NEVER the norm. Nobody has created a list and thought, "I need more Bolter shooting". Did y'all forget how bad S4 AP5 Rapid Fire was for 3rd-7th? 

 

Honestly I could swear you two are one account given how in lock-step you are.

 

Yes, I expect line rifles shouldn't be wounding a walking tank on more than a 6+, why should they? 4 editions ago they wouldn't have hurt them period, so this comes across as simply projecting your personal displeasure with knights more than a valid point regard bolter balancing.

 

Bolters are chaff clearing weapons, that's the point. They're not there to clear vehicles and elite infantry, they're there to shred lightly armoured humanoids.

 

Stop encouraging a lethality arms race.

 

 

[jaxom]

48 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Highly doubt considering Storm Bolters were one of the worst weapons you could purchase vs using Flamers instead. 

I can only speak to my own experiences. I ran 10-man tac squads for killing infantry, with heavy bolter if I had the points; and 5 man Deathwing with an Assault Cannon for mobile shooting against infantry. Deathwing powerfists and chainfist melee for anti-tank and anti-big stuff. Those were the core of my army regardless of what else I took.

 

As to how well I remember their effectiveness…. Well, similar to how you doubt my ability it to remember, I doubt there’s anything I could write which convince you I’m not senile.

 

*Shrug*

Edited 6 hours ago by jaxom
Fixed an autocorrect error

[DemonGSides]

43 minutes ago, jaxom said:

I can only speak to my own experiences. I ran 10-man tac squads for killing infantry, with heavy bolter if I had the points; and 5 man Deathwing with an Assault Cannon for mobile shooting against infantry. Deathwing powerfists and chainfist melee for anti-tank and anti-big stuff. Those were the core of my army regardless of what else I took.

 

As to how well I remember their effectiveness…. Well, similar to how you doubt my ability it to remember, I doubt there’s anything I could write which convince you I’m not senile.

 

*Shrug*

 

Sure, there also wasn't Imperial/Chaos Knights and routine Primarchs to deal with. The game got a lot of Toughness on the top side that left a lot of weapon profiles in the dust.

 

If the game was still a much more infantry oriented affair, I would agree the Bolter could stay at S4. But if I'm expected to tackle Armiger stat lines on the reg, niche use chaffe clearing guns are the first things I'm abandoning. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Headless cross has consistently, wildly wrong takes of the older editions.

 

Up until formations and knights and all that ruined 6th, the bolter profile was useful. It wasnt game breaking or oppressive, but it was flexible with its range and stats; you could fend off light skimmers, threaten trukks, and put pressure on a good amount of troops. That was important because you either needed to be a troop to score, or needed to be above 50% unit strength back before 5th. It was also important to thin out ork boys, hormagaunts, stealers and the like as soon as you could, which the bolter did pretty well. No one worried about getting more bolters in lists because you either had a bunch of tacs in rhinos (which incidentally brought more), a bunch of tacs and some other units in pods (which also brought more), or bikers (who leveraged the bolters the best). That was enough to deal with most infantry in TAC lists, especially with free missile launchers littered through your tac squads in 5th.

 

But others have pointed out (and i mentioned it too), that that was before the crazy stuff like knights and super high toughness values were common occurences. Back when you had to have a relatively mixed composition army from both the foc and the scoring (all bikes were great up until an objective was placed on the third story of ruins and you couldn't capture or contest it). Modern 40k conflict and unit scale doesn't really support small arms being as useful.

Edited 4 hours ago by SkimaskMohawk

[Wispy]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I was browsing reddit, the infamous cesspit, and I came across a post that raised a good point:

 

The box for the new Calgar has been revealed, and it makes very specific mention of his armour. The current Gravis model is currently pulled from the UK store, but this has happened before when models have been re-boxed.

I suspect that there will indeed be two Calgar models available, one in the armour of Heracles, and one in the armour of Antilocus.

 

And on a personal note, I have decided to potentially sell my Horus Heresy army to fund an Ultramarine project in 40k, but that would depend on whether a new 40k Guilliman model is released. I really love the 30k version, but I don't feel the aesthetic of the 40k model fully matches the Primaris marines in the way the Lion does.

Certainly saves a lot of people's lists, as they would have different squads they could be attached to.