New Calgar, Sicarius, and Victrix Guard miniatures

[Wispy]

also their willingness to redo (replace?) Calgar with a classical rendition makes me wonder if we'll soon see new Hellblasters and Intercessors replaced with Devastators and Tactical marines (or Tactical Intercessors if you prefer).

[ZeroWolf]

7 minutes ago, Wispy said:

also their willingness to redo (replace?) Calgar with a classical rendition makes me wonder if we'll soon see new Hellblasters and Intercessors replaced with Devastators and Tactical marines (or Tactical Intercessors if you prefer).

Tactical Intercessors are looking like a good bet for the 11th starter by a couple of factors, 1 being that GW like putting some sort of troop unit in their launch boxes, and 2 that they need to do something with the regular Intercessor sprue given that all the weapon options amount to the same thing now so theres a lot of sprue space that can be freed up. Not sure about devastators now as their weapons are split amongst several other units (good idea to merge for bloat reasons, GW may see it as a bad idea for their bank balance).

[Orange Knight]

So... I was watching the new Valrak video.

 

It should be noted that Valrak made a video about the Calgar refresh over a week ago. He'd received some whispers from the Warp.

 

He also said that those same whispers, which now have a lot more credibility, spoke of another new model...

 

An updated Guilliman 

[Blindhamster]

8 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I don't feel anyone should be complaining.

 

When you consider the Blood Angel, Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Black Templar ranges, this still isn't as significant.

 

I understand the Ultramarines are very popular and that their models always sell well. I'm only irked to see perfectly good, recent models getting updates (Calgar) when others are languishing (Kantor). But again, I understand that Calgar is a legendary hero.

 

If the Ultramarines receive another unit, say.. Tyrannic War Veterans (which is possible) then we just need to think of them in the same way we do of the other chapters I mentioned above. They probably should get their own supplement at this point considering the size of their range:

 

Guilliman 

Calgar Gravis

Calgar Terminator + Bodyguards

Cato Sicarius

Uriel Ventris

Tigurius 

Titus

Ferrein Aeros

Victrix Guard

 

Edit:

Guilliman probably needed an update more than Calgar...

 

in actual fact the ultramarine range is as significant as blood angels at this point really

 

victrix - sanguinary guard

ferrein - blood angels captain

titus - sanguinary priest

tigarius - mephiston

ventris - sanguinor

sicarius - astorath

Calgar - Dante 

guilliman - lemartes

upgrade sprue - upgrade sprue 

 

I guess blood angels still have the old baal, so let’s equate that to gravis Calgar for the moment.

 

[Orange Knight]

19 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

in actual fact the ultramarine range is as significant as blood angels at this point really

 

victrix - sanguinary guard

ferrein - blood angels captain

titus - sanguinary priest

tigarius - mephiston

ventris - sanguinor

sicarius - astorath

Calgar - Dante 

guilliman - lemartes

upgrade sprue - upgrade sprue 

 

I guess blood angels still have the old baal, so let’s equate that to gravis Calgar for the moment.

 

 

Yes I would generally agree. The BA do still have access to unique units via upgrade sprue or datasheet - namely the Death Company, the DC Dread, etc. I keep ranting about how many other chapters could get unique options via upgrade sprue. You don't need to change a lot of things to create a thematic, chapter specific unit.

Just imagine a boarding shield upgrade sprue for Intercessors, or a Power weapon set for Assault Intercessors. You could have Imperial Fist breachers, or a more elite infantry type for chapters so inclined.

[CL_Mission]

33 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So... I was watching the new Valrak video.

 

It should be noted that Valrak made a video about the Calgar refresh over a week ago. He'd received some whispers from the Warp.

 

He also said that those same whispers, which now have a lot more credibility, spoke of another new model...

 

An updated Guilliman 

An updated Guilliman would make a lot more sense. I know some people don't like Gravis Calgar but I think more people would agree that Guilliman just doesn't look very good. Hopefully they've got whoever modeled the new Lion to work on Roboute or I guess the team behind this new Victrix guard, they're splendid and to me (admittedly a non-ultramarine collector) perfect Ultramarine models.

[Kenzaburo]

As a legitimate Ultramarines fanboy since 4th edition because of the Kopinski artworks and Terminator Calgar, I like this update. I totally don't love new Calgar's head, that just looked better on the Gravis kit. Sicarius is ace, Victrix as well.

 

As for all the people here remarking on the "horrible" Gravis version: I always felt, that the Gravis model was okay. Wasn't much of a fan of the pose and thought he could need some more bling compared to his old model and artwork, but I was fine with Gravis overall. I think Space Marine 2 showed how badass Calgar can look in Gravis armor in action. Who here didn't love his entrance into the late game and his portrayal? But his model seemed underblinged compared to recent releases like Grimnar (that one is just effing fantastic) or Helbrecht. 

 

That's the main critique you can bring regarding Calgar as the first Primaris character. He seemd rather clean/bland compared to recent character model Primaris iterations, obviously due to changed design principals regarding the Primaris line. I nerver liked the old Victrix guard that came with Calgar, tho. They always looked a bit awkward to me. The new ones are fantastic. 

 

I'm also confused about people wondering if the Ultramarines become one of the big special chapters now. They have been so since late 4th/5th edition with Calgar, Honor Guard, Telion, Chronus, Sicarius, Cassius and Tyrannic War Veterans. The only difference being that they didn't have chapter special rules back then but were the vanilla special chapter, so to speak.

 

But looking at them now, we have even more characters. Besides the obvious named chars like Sicarius, Ventris and Titus (the latter 2 being really not that great minis, even more so compared to what we got just now), we have the Phobos captain confirmed as Acheran since Space Marine 2, the Terminator Captain is very clearly Agemman (minus that weird plasma blaster he was once said to have), even using his iconography in all offical shots, and then there is the recent Ferren Areios. And in theory we even have Decimus Felix, because the Dark Imperium novels described him as the original Gravis Captain from the Dark Imperium boxed set. That is a lot of models for the chapter. As a fanboy I'd also love to see Sergeant Gadriel and Brother Chairon, but that would clearly be over the top. :)

 

I also don't really get why people claim we need a Guilliman resculpt. I think he's fine. Never was a fan of the face sculpt, but other than that his overall design is alright. I like the Lion more, but that's just personal preference. I'd rather GW tackle one of the other primarchs like a potential return of Russ, especially after the lovely new designs for the Rout, or maybe someone like the Khagan or Corax. Grizzled Jagathai, the old hunter, or Shadow-Ninja Corax could be cool.

[Robbienw]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

also their willingness to redo (replace?) Calgar with a classical rendition makes me wonder if we'll soon see new Hellblasters and Intercessors replaced with Devastators and Tactical marines (or Tactical Intercessors if you prefer).

 

Lets hope so.

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, Kenzaburo said:

As a legitimate Ultramarines fanboy since 4th edition because of the Kopinski artworks and Terminator Calgar, I like this update. I totally don't love new Calgar's head, that just looked better on the Gravis kit. Sicarius is ace, Victrix as well.

 

As for all the people here remarking on the "horrible" Gravis version: I always felt, that the Gravis model was okay. Wasn't much of a fan of the pose and thought he could need some more bling compared to his old model and artwork, but I was fine with Gravis overall. I think Space Marine 2 showed how badass Calgar can look in Gravis armor in action. Who here didn't love his entrance into the late game and his portrayal? But his model seemed underblinged compared to recent releases like Grimnar (that one is just effing fantastic) or Helbrecht. 

 

That's the main critique you can bring regarding Calgar as the first Primaris character. He seemd rather clean/bland compared to recent character model Primaris iterations, obviously due to changed design principals regarding the Primaris line. I nerver liked the old Victrix guard that came with Calgar, tho. They always looked a bit awkward to me. The new ones are fantastic. 

 

I'm also confused about people wondering if the Ultramarines become one of the big special chapters now. They have been so since late 4th/5th edition with Calgar, Honor Guard, Telion, Chronus, Sicarius, Cassius and Tyrannic War Veterans. The only difference being that they didn't have chapter special rules back then but were the vanilla special chapter, so to speak.

 

But looking at them now, we have even more characters. Besides the obvious named chars like Sicarius, Ventris and Titus (the latter 2 being really not that great minis, even more so compared to what we got just now), we have the Phobos captain confirmed as Acheran since Space Marine 2, the Terminator Captain is very clearly Agemman (minus that weird plasma blaster he was once said to have), even using his iconography in all offical shots, and then there is the recent Ferren Areios. And in theory we even have Decimus Felix, because the Dark Imperium novels described him as the original Gravis Captain from the Dark Imperium boxed set. That is a lot of models for the chapter. As a fanboy I'd also love to see Sergeant Gadriel and Brother Chairon, but that would clearly be over the top. :)

 

I also don't really get why people claim we need a Guilliman resculpt. I think he's fine. Never was a fan of the face sculpt, but other than that his overall design is alright. I like the Lion more, but that's just personal preference. I'd rather GW tackle one of the other primarchs like a potential return of Russ, especially after the lovely new designs for the Rout, or maybe someone like the Khagan or Corax. Grizzled Jagathai, the old hunter, or Shadow-Ninja Corax could be cool.

I think it is still confusing - they don't get a supplement for Ultras, they don't have many actual units either. If having a handful of characters is special treatment then yeah sure, but compare it to the wolves range and they're leagues apart

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

also their willingness to redo (replace?) Calgar with a classical rendition makes me wonder if we'll soon see new Hellblasters and Intercessors replaced with Devastators and Tactical marines (or Tactical Intercessors if you prefer).

 

My guess is that the new Calgar is more to do with tying in 10th edition as the Terminator edition. On the other hand, SM line troops tend to get updated around once a decade and most of them will be around 9 years old by the launch of 11th edition so your suggestion is not implausible.

 

 

10 hours ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Cato Sicarius with two unhelmeted head options: open mouth and close mouth.

 

I guess the head from the standard Primaris Captain is a decent choice if you want Cato with a helmet on. It is pretty UM flavoured.

 

[Knightsword]

Now that's a face only a Primarch could love  I do like the updated Calgar model but really not sold on what they've done to his head.

 

Think I'll use the Librarian or Belial's legs to convert him closer to the 2004 model's walking pose though, and give him a different head like Tor Garadon's or something.

 

I'll definitely be getting the Victrix kit.

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

also their willingness to redo (replace?) Calgar with a classical rendition makes me wonder if we'll soon see new Hellblasters and Intercessors replaced with Devastators and Tactical marines (or Tactical Intercessors if you prefer).

Tactical intercessors is something some of us have theorized a while, but I don't seem them bringing back devestators when we their armament equivalents been spread over multiple squads, not just hellblasters.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Not upset to see Gravis Calgar disappear, even said to my brother that they needed to redo him when the upscaled Terminators dropped at the front end of tenth. I do however dislike the loss of sword ‘n board Victrix Guard and wish we had the axe and/or swords with shields as one option and the bolt carbines and axe and/or swords as another.

Edited Monday at 09:09 AM by FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants

[Orange Knight]

52 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Tactical intercessors is something some of us have theorized a while, but I don't seem them bringing back devestators when we their armament equivalents been spread over multiple squads, not just hellblasters.

 

I could see Tactical Intercessors being a thing - the current kit is almost 10 years old, and Tactical marines were regularly refreshed. Although in general I really don't care much for a single special and heavy weapon in the squad - I'd rather have my mobility and bolt rifle profiles. The unit is a lot better now than any Tactical squad has ever been and the way it plays is a lot more dynamic, but despite this it's still not a guaranteed pick for an army lol.

 

In terms of actual flexibility, the army is so much more Dynamic now than it ever was during the Pre-Primaris days. You can run entire armies of high toughness Gravis, entire sneaky Phobos armies or everything in between. The units have more impactful rules and more lethality but they have a lot less customisation which is what I believe some people really miss - even though it was mostly superficial in practice.

But looking at these new Ultramarines, as well as the DA/BA/BT/SW specific options, I think we are approaching the old levels of uniqueness and bling that we had grown accustomed to before 8th edition, but thankfully the models don't look like Christimas trees anymore because GW designers have shown a tad more restraint lol.

Edited Monday at 09:43 AM by Orange Knight

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

11 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

Other than, y’know, it being the honored standard of a First Founding Chapter.

 

It's a bad drawing from the 90's, not some ancient imperial art style.

[Crimson Longinus]

50 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

But looking at these new Ultramarines, as well as the DA/BA/BT/SW specific options, I think we are approaching the old levels of uniqueness and bling that we had grown accustomed to before 8th edition, but thankfully the models don't look like Christimas trees anymore because GW designers have shown a tad more restraint lol.

 

I agree with your post otherwise, but these new Ultras are pretty solidly in the Christmas tree territory. 

[ThaneOfTas]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

Tactical Intercessors

Tactical Ints are absolutely my bet for the 11th starter box. For all the same reasons that @Marshal Reinhard mentioned, as well as the fact that the Tactical squad tended to get an update roughly every 10 years, and next year will be 9 years since Intercessors were introduced.

 

Devestators I'd love to see come back, I just don't expect to. While one unit with lots of options is my preferred design philosophy, as well as being better for range bloat, it's just not at all the direction that GW has been taking the range, modern 40k is all about limiting options, not expanding them.

 

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

An updated Guilliman 

I'm not going to pretend that he was at the top of my wishlist for an updated model. However I also won't pretend that he doesn't look a bit off compared to his brother, so a new one wouldn't be the worst thing. I'm also certain that there will be a great many people who will vehemently disagree about it not being the worst thing ever.

 

 

[mecanojavi99]

3 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

More like GW learned how to have their cake and eat it. By dropping the labels (First born this, Primaris that) from the rules and descriptions (it's very much a lore thing in books, no changing that now) then there is no difference in models except armour type...which GW have also started mixing up.

 

I suspect that the Primaris treatment will become a standard part of space marine creation in lore with survival rates going to 100% (which let's face it were always going to be the case as no main named characters ever died from it). Thus all marines will be special which means none are special again...err aside from BA, DA, SW and BT of course.

 

I mean, at some point after every Firstborn has either died or crossed the Rubicon, there's no need to use the Rubicon again really, they will simply make Primaris from the get go

[Marshal Reinhard]

59 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

I agree with your post otherwise, but these new Ultras are pretty solidly in the Christmas tree territory. 

I think they skirt the edge.. but the fact that the models themselves are larger, and the blinged details are smaller, they feel less over the top and a lot more balanced, even though they may have a very similiar amount of bling items.

 

Take old and new Calgar for instance

 

Overall the bling items are very similar in number, but they're better sized on the new model (like you can barely see the back leg on the older one, and the top ornamentation just feels really thick and clumsy) I'd take the old head over the new one though.

Edited Monday at 11:27 AM by Marshal Reinhard

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

An updated Guilliman 

Jesus Christ, please no.

[Orange Knight]

16 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Jesus Christ, please no.

 

Models get updated, and popular models get updated more frequently. Think about Calgar, Logan Grimnar and many other named characters. Some are on a 3rd/4th refresh.

 

Isn't Guilliman 9 or 10 years old at this point? It's definitely going to happen eventually.

I mentioned a few years back that we'll start getting updates to existing Primarchs before we get models for people like Corax or Vulcan...

[DemonGSides]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

es I would generally agree. The BA do still have access to unique units via upgrade sprue or datasheet - namely the Death Company, the DC Dread, etc. I keep ranting about how many other chapters could get unique options via upgrade sprue. You don't need to change a lot of things to create a thematic, chapter specific unit.

 

Big disagree.  Upgrade sprue shouldn't be the tactic for a unit, as it basically just inflates the $ cost of a unit while getting something that is laughable in comparison to a bespoke kit.  Current BA Death Company are not at all on the same level as Deathwing Knights, ICC, Crusader Squads, or even Blood Claws, which are quite reserved but also still FIRMLY in the "Obviously SW" category.  Upgrade Sprue units SUCK, and Upgrade Sprues should be there to add bits to already existing units, not as a crutch to not have to make a bespoke kit.

Current DC are just "You've got some nice Black Space Marines, one even has a slightly bigger chainsword!" and that's about it.  It's an embarrassment and GW should be rightly criticized when within less than a year we've gotten a TON of bespoke, interesting Space Marine sculpts for a variety of chapters.

The Ball (Baal, HAH!) that was dropped when it comes to the BA refresh deserves a mini-documentary retrospective.  DA's refresh may not have been stellar compared to the likes of BT and SW, and now UM, but at least it was plentiful with the toys.  BA was just like "Here's some characters, the rest of it straight up doesn't matter."

Edited Monday at 12:26 PM by DemonGSides

[Orange Knight]

In a perfect world, every chapter would have a bunch of unique characters and units.

I'm just saying that realistically this won't happen. Meanwhile the Horus Heresy has a large range of upgrade sprues, and certain units only exists by combining multiple kits.

And right now, the Black Templar vehicle variants only exist by combining the models with the upgrade sprue which unlocks the Multi Melta. Same thing with the Blood Angels Death Company.

 

So for the likes of Imperial Fists, Salamanders, a unique unit we can build via upgrade sprue is better than no unit at all.

 

 

[appiah4]

Poor Sanguinary guard and Death Company

[Blindhamster]

Eh, the sanguinary guard are still good IMO, I made the smallest of changes to mine (removing the cables and adding obliques, adding a different leg design to one of them and mixing in some alternative death mask heads). The loss of wings is a polarizing one, they were always kinda large and unwieldy looking, and at odds with the fact Dante doesn't have that style of pack, so I wasn't overly sad to lose the wings (it also makes them easier to transport), but I totally get that for some, the wings became a core part of their identity and I don't necessarily disagree, it was just more important to me they retained the muscle armour, which they did. (I actually have some nice printed alternative backpacks with wings for mine... I just havent used them because Im not sure I like it more when actually in place - not the greytide ones, I hate those)

The sanguinary guard COULD have been better, for sure. But they're far from bad IMO. I still like them more than the ICC for DA or SB for BT. I think the Head Takers and Victrix have a better balance of poses and details with JUST enough individuality per model that I think they're better executed. 

Death company? Yeah, they needed their own kit still.. Or rather two (one on foot, one with jump packs). Again, a bit like @Wispy issue with these guys though, I'd have wanted them reigned in a bit compare to the old DC kit, which was way too OTT. Something in the vein of the new wolf kits would have been wonderful though. 

 

Anyway. 

 

Calgar is very nice, I actually quite like his face, just not for Calgar lol. The pose is much better than the gravis one, and the armour design is better too. I think when he was done in gravis, they were still working gravis out, other gravis characters like Tor Garadon are MUCH better looking. 

Cato is great, nice pose and details.

 

The basic victrix guard are lovely. Really impressed with those For me their level of bling is about perfect for the guard for the chapter master/primarch. 

 

The champion and ancient are awesome, whilst I do think the banner design could have had a minor update, I don't hate the classic design remaining in place. 

 

I can see bits I'd "borrow" for my blood angels, as always :P