Post Dataslate/Points Update (Sept.2025)

[Prot]

I'm a little surprised I haven't seen this posted yet. (Unless I missed it!)

I've stolen this from Youtube just to get a summary for anyone that missed it:

 

So first off I'm just going to say in my 'fun' list... that is to say not hyper competitive, I was running 3 TWC, Ragnar, and Arjac.  

 

This puts my fun list at + 35. Which I'm just going to say aside from Ragnar isn't making a lot of sense. I never felt my use of TWC was anything much beyond 'fluffy for Wolves". They were/are solid, and they kind of fit that niche of being a good army specific unit that was well priced. I guess people were mowing down opposition with multiple large squads. I wasn't doing this.

 

I think Arjac is a miss. And I think they missed the opportunity to do something useful to Njal who probably remains the least used named character and is left that way after this update.

 

The larger picture sees the Ballistus, and a few other units take a hit that probably sway people back to cheaper, alternatives.

 

Just wondering what this has meant (if anything) to your lists?

 

 

 

 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

My apologies if I sound too negative. It is not my intent. In 3 months we can be looking at a different situation.

 

I was disappointed but not surprised by the points update. I do see the reasoning in increasing TWC. I like to use two units of 3. (+30). Arjac and Ragnar got increases because people like using them? Khârn is similar to Ragnar and is the same points now. What mostly disappointed me the most was the increase to Ballistus dreadnoughts. I like to use two (+20). All of my lists start with 2 Ballistus and 2 small TWC units lol. The blood claws going up was a head scratcher. I'll have to take either a character or transport out. Many comp lists forgo transports so I may see if I can make that work.

 

I'm surprised we didn't get decreases to grey hunters, all the dreadnoughts minus Bjorn, and Njal. Most armies got point decreases or at least a mix of decreases & increases. Ad Mech had two units go up, blood angels had 1 unit go up.

 

I am pleased they opened up Logan's ability to any reserve unit. And they clarified to count units in transports for beastslayer tally.

 

Back to the drawing board on lists.

[Prot]

 I agree with your take. I don't think it's negative... it's basically facts. :)

 

GW updated their app for ios yesterday and I reloaded my lists. I agree with you about Khârn being about the equivalent of Ragnar (though I can perceive of a list without Ragnar, but not without Khârn). Regardless, here's the part that gets me:

 

All my Wolves 2K lists loaded up to about 2035 (give or take)

All my World Eaters 2K lists loaded up to about 1975 (give or take).

 

That doesn't seem right. My 8bound/X8bound just got very spicy. The rest got better except Spawn which were incredibly good/utilitarian. 

 

Wolves? Not only did the core Wolves units largely get hit, but all the auxiliary units did too. This is tough to swallow on top of (as you note) stuff like Grey Hunters didn't get a rules or points tweak - which let's be honest do not even make an appearance on top tables. This is flat wrong in my opinion. 

 

I use one squad of Grey Hunters just because it feels wrong to pull them out but they are definitely bringing down the competitive level of my lists... this is multiplied by being forced into 10.

 

Funny thing is part of the reason I took Ballistus is for the foot print. A lot of tables are ugly in 10th... tons of little boxes on the table. I like the extra room in my zone. I stopped taking the Redemptors... I have to figure something out here... the point increase threatens to make my lists a little too small now.  I like my Termies/elite units.

 

I can see I may have to just cut headtakers to keep Termies, or vice versa, but both seem to be asking a bit much. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens to our termies when the Assault variant get added to the vanilla codex along side their superior Oath. Maybe points come down for Wolves at that point?

 

Overall this is rough. I'm thinking of bringing back vanilla marine units that I don't want to... scouts, intercessors... dump grey hunters and some elite units. Not sure yet.

 

 

Edited September 18 by Prot

[Karhedron]

I agree about Grey Hunters, especially because Intercessors are in a good place at the moment. 4-shots each, Sticky Objective and 16ppm for a 5 man squad is hard to top and I nearly always take 1-2 squads of them. For that price I could only take 1 squad of grey Hunters who get worse firepower and no ObjeSec. Granted they are better in melee but.....

[Prot]

Better in melee.... lol. Yea but they're still carrying toothpicks and in almost any case you know you're not relying on them for anything critical in melee.

 

I think the Grey Hunter problem is a big issue. Points, sizing, function and rules. You just said it really, the common intercessor has a real role.

 

Every time I make a list I want to pull the Grey Hunters. In my last... 6 games (?) give or take, they have been really disappointing.  Bloodclaws are understandably a one shot, one and done, blunt object that might get some work done... pretty much as intended. But Grey Hunters are in a terrible spot. (So is Njal.)

 

Maybe next time?

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Quote

 

Space Wolves have come out swinging, so we’ve brought up a few points on the overperforming units.

 

 

Not too thrilled about this explanation from GW. We’ve come out with at 52% win percent and they treated us worse than most. Small changes albeit but my lists are losing at least a unit. 

 

Agree on Ragnar. He hasn’t yet made it into my lists but I start all my WE lists with Khârn. Khârn is better too by a large margin. 3 damage is so good.

 

Grey Hunters at 155 or less is where they should be. The restriction of units of 10 is  an impediment. Their Datasheet lacking a second special close combat weapon is lame. It’s in the box. 
 

If we got discounts on some units I would be more understanding of their approach. Instead it reinforces the idea that we are not allowed to have nice things. Just boltguns lol. 

[Prot]

Come out swinging....

 

Well they've hardly been out. We could say Thousand Sons took substantial nerfs in points... but some of those units were incredible and you were seeing 3 in many lists of certain units.

 

I think one thing that is just not being addressed (other than Grey Hunters) is the Detachments. I'm personally sick of every single marine player (no matter the chapter) just trying to min-max the Gladius. 

 

I know GW tried a subtle 'nerf' to other chapters by removing the +1 to wound of Oath, however this is a very strong indicator that it doesn't matter. Fix Sagas.

 

I think World Eaters will pick up a LOT of competitive band wagoneers! I think some of those may be Wolves players. If I were GW, I certainly would have waited a bit longer after Knight nerfs. (Wolves had some unique ways of dealing with them.)

 

Anyway, I just came on to say I've reworked some of my lists. Basically this has forced me to pull the fun/fat out of the lists (except Grey Hunters because I'm super stubborn, and they're painted!)

 

Back to multi-Headtakers , Predators, multi WGBL. Gone is Arjac, extra Termies, Ragnar, Iron Priest, and Ballistus from all lists.