Possible Ferrus Manus and Legion Of The Damned release?

[LSM]

6 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

I think the LoD would be prime KT fodder myself, as the resulting 40k datasheet would be usable by any Imperium keyword army (I believe)

 

You brought it up before I could, but: yeah. Perfect for Kill Team. My three main thoughts on this:

• Now that Kill Team actually has Deathwatch Kill Teams, a pre-eminently good future release is Legion of the Damned.
• In the Iron Hands' Index Astartes article (2001), which if I'm not mistaken is the first place Ferrus Manus was stated to have (likely) been killed at Istvaan V [sic] (and in contradiction to the Black Templars' Index Astartes article of the previous year, which stated that Ferrus Manus and Corax were the two Primarchs who backed Guilliman's implementation of the Codex), there is a built-in narrative for his return: "According to their Scriptures, the moment the Emperor fell, the psychic shockwave was felt with such intensity that it reached Ferrus, even though he had left the realm of Man. An image of Ferrus appeared before his Legion, and his anguish and despair was unimaginable. It is said that this apparition spoke of his fears for Mankind. He spoke of a great calamity, a darkness that would assail humanity at some unforeseen moment in the future, and his promise that he would be there to lead humanity through its trials of darkness. Amongst the Iron Hands it is taught that he ascended to an unearthly paradise realm where he fights eternally, becoming ever stronger. And so it is said that Ferrus Manus left the world of Man, preparing for the time when he is required again, that Time of Darkness when his light is needed most of all."
• When I returned to WH40k (having ghosted out towards the end of 4th, reigniting interest at the beginning of 9th) I was pretty surprised about a number of developments. But one that I've struggled the most with is the Legion of the Damned being "Ghostriders" instead of weird warp-zombies. I'm just used to them decorating their armour with the flames of perdition, not actually being engulfed in them. (As they're obsessed with the fact that their warp-disease is killing them; they're dead-men walking, a legion of those damned to an ignoble death outside the grace of the Emperor.) So... even though I'd like to see Legion of the Damned, I just know it will probably not be the Legion of the Damned that I liked as a kid. But counter to that, if GW did re-retcon things, then a bunch of other people will probably be mad about them not being "Ghostriders"...

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

You brought it up before I could, but: yeah. Perfect for Kill Team. My three main thoughts on this:

• Now that Kill Team actually has Deathwatch Kill Teams, a pre-eminently good future release is Legion of the Damned.
• In the Iron Hands' Index Astartes article (2001), which if I'm not mistaken is the first place Ferrus Manus was stated to have (likely) been killed at Istvaan V [sic] (and in contradiction to the Black Templars' Index Astartes article of the previous year, which stated that Ferrus Manus and Corax were the two Primarchs who backed Guilliman's implementation of the Codex), there is a built-in narrative for his return: "According to their Scriptures, the moment the Emperor fell, the psychic shockwave was felt with such intensity that it reached Ferrus, even though he had left the realm of Man. An image of Ferrus appeared before his Legion, and his anguish and despair was unimaginable. It is said that this apparition spoke of his fears for Mankind. He spoke of a great calamity, a darkness that would assail humanity at some unforeseen moment in the future, and his promise that he would be there to lead humanity through its trials of darkness. Amongst the Iron Hands it is taught that he ascended to an unearthly paradise realm where he fights eternally, becoming ever stronger. And so it is said that Ferrus Manus left the world of Man, preparing for the time when he is required again, that Time of Darkness when his light is needed most of all."
• When I returned to WH40k (having ghosted out towards the end of 4th, reigniting interest at the beginning of 9th) I was pretty surprised about a number of developments. But one that I've struggled the most with is the Legion of the Damned being "Ghostriders" instead of weird warp-zombies. I'm just used to them decorating their armour with the flames of perdition, not actually being engulfed in them. (As they're obsessed with the fact that their warp-disease is killing them; they're dead-men walking, a legion of those damned to an ignoble death outside the grace of the Emperor.) So... even though I'd like to see Legion of the Damned, I just know it will probably not be the Legion of the Damned that I liked as a kid. But counter to that, if GW did re-retcon things, then a bunch of other people will probably be mad about them not being "Ghostriders"...

The rules (and resulting fluff) could hopefully written in a way that allows for a multiple choice explanation over their origins. A thing like "there's these strange space marines that appead suddenly, some people think they are group A, others think group B, while some even think group C. We have no idea who they really are". Probably isn't going to be but it would nice.

[SvenIronhand]

GW shouldn't cave to the 'Emperor's Daemons' nonsense and keep the LOTD as the Fire Hawks choosing to fight their own, last battles on their own dying terms.

[Orange Knight]

I'm the opposite. They should lean into it and make the LoD super elite and give them some warp powers.

 

I would have a full squad of Marines that can deepstrike. All enemy units within 12" must take battleshock tests when they arrive. 3 wounds each, 3+, 5++

 

Arm them with some warp bolters that have AP-2, Lethal Hits 5+

 

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

When Ferrus returns he will be wearing snake boots. And this is the story how the perverse snake boy will miraculously disappear...

[Scribe]

39 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

GW shouldn't cave to the 'Emperor's Daemons' nonsense and keep the LOTD as the Fire Hawks choosing to fight their own, last battles on their own dying terms.

 

A million times, this.

[phandaal]

5 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

When Ferrus returns he will be wearing snake boots. And this is the story how the perverse snake boy will miraculously disappear...

 

Then Corvus Corax shows up casually holding Lorgar's favorite book. "Oh this, it's nothing!"

[Jings]

Doubt there's any meat to this rumour, but the return of Ferrus, Sanguinius, Curze or Horus in anyway shape or form to the modern setting is my cue to withdraw from 40K entirely. 

[SvenIronhand]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm the opposite. They should lean into it and make the LoD super elite and give them some warp powers.

 

I would have a full squad of Marines that can deepstrike. All enemy units within 12" must take battleshock tests when they arrive. 3 wounds each, 3+, 5++

 

Arm them with some warp bolters that have AP-2, Lethal Hits 5+

 

 

You could have that without Emperor’s Daemons gak. They had supernatural powers in the original WD article.

[LSM]

10 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

The rules (and resulting fluff) could hopefully written in a way that allows for a multiple choice explanation over their origins. A thing like "there's these strange space marines that appead suddenly, some people think they are group A, others think group B, while some even think group C. We have no idea who they really are". Probably isn't going to be but it would nice.

 

The models will have to choose.

 

Do the skeletons dancing in the flames of purgatory get incorporated as "totally radical" armour decoration, or is it literally what they are?

 

The resultant models will be physically different.

[sitnam]

10 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

GW shouldn't cave to the 'Emperor's Daemons' nonsense and keep the LOTD as the Fire Hawks choosing to fight their own, last battles on their own dying terms.

 

We do have sources stating that the Legion is not purely composed of Fire Hawks remnants. 

 

Spoiler

The short story Animus Malorum has the Legion recruiting new members

 

[Jukkiz]

THEY DO WHAT NOW?!

[Moonstalker]

Rumors look thin to me, but I'd definitely pick up a squad.  I was thinking of trying my hand at converting an Angels of Death KT to LotD anyway.

[ZeroWolf]

37 minutes ago, Moonstalker said:

Rumors look thin to me, but I'd definitely pick up a squad.  I was thinking of trying my hand at converting an Angels of Death KT to LotD anyway.

To be fair, I don't think there has been  any rumours about LoD, just this bit of fake nonsense

[LSM]

12 hours ago, sitnam said:

 

We do have sources stating that the Legion is not purely composed of Fire Hawks remnants. 

 

  Hide contents

The short story Animus Malorum has the Legion recruiting new members

 

 

Theoretically, they'd have to.

 

In the original story, by the time the former Fire Hawks (self-rechristened as the Legion of the Damned) made it back to Imperial space they were down to under a hundred marines.

 

And their whole thing was that they were better-marines, and when you charged you rolled a d6 for every one of them. On a 6, that model entered a "Berserk Death Spasm" which pushed them insanely OP (become independent, quadruple their charge range, double their strength and attacks, if they killed every enemy around them they could consolidate into more enemies and immediately fight again, and again, and again until their were no more enemies left... and then they died).

 

So... narratively, the original Fire Hawks should probably all be dead by M42.

 

//

 

Side note: I do wonder if the whole "Ghostrider" thing came about after someone maybe confused the Fire Hawks with their fellow Cursed Founding Chapter, the Flame Falcons. (The latter being the ones who spontaneously ignited with warp fire around them, and who were purged by the Grey Knights.)

[Xirix]

28 minutes ago, LSM said:

And their whole thing was that they were better-marines, and when you charged you rolled a d6 for every one of them. On a 6, that model entered a "Berserk Death Spasm" which pushed them insanely OP (become independent, quadruple their charge range, double their strength and attacks, if they killed every enemy around them they could consolidate into more enemies and immediately fight again, and again, and again until their were no more enemies left... and then they died).

 

So... narratively, the original Fire Hawks should probably all be dead by M42.

 

 

That sounds nuts, what was that, 2nd Edition? A White Dwarf rules thing?

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

15 minutes ago, Xirix said:

That sounds nuts, what was that, 2nd Edition? A White Dwarf rules thing?

2nd 40K:

LotD were immune to Psychology and Break tests. They caused Fear and all of their infantry were allowed to teleport into battle. That´s about it.

[LSM]

7 minutes ago, Xirix said:

That sounds nuts, what was that, 2nd Edition? A White Dwarf rules thing?

 

Rogue Trader-era, yeah.

 

The Legion of the Damned were the third Index Astartes article, in White Dwarf 99 (March 1988), preceded by the Mentor Legion (who appear to have been Bryan Ansell's chapter, and who also had some crazy rules as a sort of proto-Deathwatch)*, and the Ultramarines (which is somewhat less crazy, though is foundational to all Space Marine organisation afterwards; and does include a ton of characters including Chief Librarian Astropath Illiyan Nastase - the Badab-born son of an Eldar Mercenary who served for two years with the Dark Angels before being appointed the chief of Macragge's interstellar communications under the jurisdiction of the Ultra-Marines - or Master of Ships Christo Columbine - a Power Armour'd Navigator who sold himself into slavery and was bought by the Ultra-Marines, and has webbed hands and feet).

 

*Actually, if the Ordo Hereticus were ever given a Chapter along the lines of Deathwatch/Grey Knights (now that Sisters of Battle have been expanded into being more of their own thing) the Mentors would fit them perfectly. (With their Targeting-Webs, Timewarpers, and Shift Fields.)

[Orange Knight]

18 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

You could have that without Emperor’s Daemons gak. They had supernatural powers in the original WD article.

 

You could. But that's less interesting or exciting in my opinion. 

 

We already have St Celestine in the lore. These guys would fit perfectly as help summoned by the Emperor.

It would make them unique and interesting amongst the Astartes

[Xirix]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

Rogue Trader-era, yeah.

 

The Legion of the Damned were the third Index Astartes article, in White Dwarf 99 (March 1988), preceded by the Mentor Legion (who appear to have been Bryan Ansell's chapter, and who also had some crazy rules as a sort of proto-Deathwatch)*, and the Ultramarines (which is somewhat less crazy, though is foundational to all Space Marine organisation afterwards; and does include a ton of characters including Chief Librarian Astropath Illiyan Nastase - the Badab-born son of an Eldar Mercenary who served for two years with the Dark Angels before being appointed the chief of Macragge's interstellar communications under the jurisdiction of the Ultra-Marines - or Master of Ships Christo Columbine - a Power Armour'd Navigator who sold himself into slavery and was bought by the Ultra-Marines, and has webbed hands and feet).

 

*Actually, if the Ordo Hereticus were ever given a Chapter along the lines of Deathwatch/Grey Knights (now that Sisters of Battle have been expanded into being more of their own thing) the Mentors would fit them perfectly. (With their Targeting-Webs, Timewarpers, and Shift Fields.)

Neat, I may have to go read up on some of this. I started in 3rd Edition so I'm not as well-versed in Rogue Trader through 2nd Edition.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

It would make them unique and interesting amongst the Astartes

 

Lets try this again.

 

They already are unique, have always been, and do not need a retcon.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Lets try this again.

 

They already are unique, have always been, and do not need a retcon.

Unique to an extent, but not interesting. The old "really Fire Hawks" lore is frankly as bad as any fan fiction Chapter at this point. At least being a SUPER messed up apparition daemon meant to represent the Emperor's "Angels of Death" is still unique. 

[darkhorse0607]

Imo, them being a loyal chapter that got warpified but still continues to serve in what ways they can is more interesting than the Emperor being able to summon marine demons, but to each their own

 

Don't really think they should be expanded on in the lore either way. Just let them be warp things that show up once in a while (once in a while BL, not every time your authors cant think of something)

[ThaneOfTas]

16 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

once in a while BL, not every time your authors cant think of something

Unless I've missed something the only time that they've shown up recently is in The Fall of Cadia. I'm more concerned about GW forgetting about them rather than over using them

[phandaal]

32 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Unless I've missed something the only time that they've shown up recently is in The Fall of Cadia. I'm more concerned about GW forgetting about them rather than over using them

 

I would rather GW forget them than come up with new lore on par with the Grey Knights' Terminus Decree reveal. Upscaled models would be neat though.