Possible Ferrus Manus and Legion Of The Damned release?

[Orange Knight]

4 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

There is nothing edgy about calling out blatant shilling

 

So if I like how the power armour looks I'm a shill?

[Orange Knight]

5 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Yes, 40K went to hell in a handbasket around 5th. The signs of decay were there at the tail-end of 4th.

Yes, and this was bad.

An originally niche hobby rejecting its original fanbase in favour of courting the money of the average schmuck who knows nothing about that hobby at the expense of what made it interesting to begin with is not a good thing for anyone other than the shareholders with investments in GW stock. You equating GW making lots of money to nu40K being good is not helping beat the "paid shill" allegations.

 

That kind of elitism and gatekeeping is too much even for me.

 

I'm a 30+ year veteran of this hobby, and I have felt absolutely no rejection. Your conclusion to the state of 40k does not match mine.

 

I feel you should give this a watch. It may help with finding some common ground and taking your foot off the hate pedal:

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Orange Knight

[DemonGSides]

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

So if I like how the power armour looks I'm a shill?

 

Yeah man that's what these arguments always end up.  If you like anything different than wherever these people planted their "This is my Warhammer" flag, you're either a shill, a bad person, or an idiot.  It's just not worth engaging when they start powering up.

[phandaal]

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Yeah man that's what these arguments always end up.  If you like anything different than wherever these people planted their "This is my Warhammer" flag, you're either a shill, a bad person, or an idiot.  It's just not worth engaging when they start powering up.

 

To be fair, this just started off as people hoping a potential new Legion of the Damned kit/set of kits does not become demon summons in Mk X armor.

 

That does not feel like a controversial opinion for people to have. The other stuff is just branching off from people not wanting to agree to disagree.

[Evil Eye]

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So if I like how the power armour looks I'm a shill?

I mean, calling it "the best that Space Marines have ever looked" is pretty hyperbolic praise for a design that's basically just Mk. 7 with extra spheres and flanges and a snub-nosed Mk. IV helmet. Combined with going to bat for it and getting defensive every time anyone says an even slightly negative thing about Primaris? Yes, it is very shill-like behaviour.

3 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

That kind of elitism and gatekeeping is too much even for me.

 

Then leave. The people that complain about gatekeeping are the people that the gate was put up to keep out.

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm a 30+ year veteran of this hobby, and I have felt absolutely no rejection. Your conclusion to the state of 40k does not match mine.

 

"My fellow veteran fans, we MUST make the game more appealing to people that don't care about it or we will not survive!". Nice try. Either you're lying or you never should have been part of this hobby to begin with.

 

The irony is? I'm only 29. I don't claim to be from the very beginning of the hobby- but I have functioning eyes and a functioning brain, and comparing what came before to what we have now? I find what we have now wanting.

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I feel you should give this a watch. It may help with finding some common ground and taking your foot off the hate pedal:

 

No, I don't think I will be watching a gaping-faced YouTuber whine because people don't like their hobbies being watered down to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Nor will I be taking my foot off the hate pedal.

 

In fact? I will put this in the politest possible language I can muster given my feelings on the matter- if you think what we have now is better than what we used to have when the game was actually good, you are partially responsible for the state of it, and I do not want you or your ilk in this hobby. The pursuit of mainstream success with an audience who neither knows nor cares about what made 40K interesting to begin with was a massive mistake, and the failure to gatekeep reflects poorly on us all. I had something I liked. People like you turned it into something I don't. People like you took it away. I am under no duress or obligation to have any warm feelings towards you for this.

 

When the hobby trumpet breaks, and GW collapses under the weight of the number of spurned former customers, I will be laughing. They- and you- will not be missed.

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

To be fair, this just started off as people hoping a potential new Legion of the Damned kit/set of kits does not become demon summons in Mk X armor.

 

That does not feel like a controversial opinion for people to have. The other stuff is just branching off from people not wanting to agree to disagree.

I think that's a good summary, theres a leap between "I don't like that idea" and "stop sucking off primaris marines whilst you get paid to spread propaganda by the evil corporation" which seems to just innately happen.

 

In reality, if you like something visually, awesome, even if I or others don't.

2 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I mean, calling it "the best that Space Marines have ever looked" is pretty hyperbolic praise for a design that's basically just Mk. 7 with extra spheres and flanges and a snub-nosed Mk. IV helmet. Combined with going to bat for it and getting defensive every time anyone says an even slightly negative thing about Primaris? Yes, it is very shill-like behaviour.

Then leave. The people that complain about gatekeeping are the people that the gate was put up to keep out.

"My fellow veteran fans, we MUST make the game more appealing to people that don't care about it or we will not survive!". Nice try. Either you're lying or you never should have been part of this hobby to begin with.

 

The irony is? I'm only 29. I don't claim to be from the very beginning of the hobby- but I have functioning eyes and a functioning brain, and comparing what came before to what we have now? I find what we have now wanting.

No, I don't think I will be watching a gaping-faced YouTuber whine because people don't like their hobbies being watered down to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Nor will I be taking my foot off the hate pedal.

 

In fact? I will put this in the politest possible language I can muster given my feelings on the matter- if you think what we have now is better than what we used to have when the game was actually good, you are partially responsible for the state of it, and I do not want you or your ilk in this hobby. The pursuit of mainstream success with an audience who neither knows nor cares about what made 40K interesting to begin with was a massive mistake, and the failure to gatekeep reflects poorly on us all. I had something I liked. People like you turned it into something I don't. People like you took it away. I am under no duress or obligation to have any warm feelings towards you for this.

 

When the hobby trumpet breaks, and GW collapses under the weight of the number of spurned former customers, I will be laughing. They- and you- will not be missed.

To have this level of deep set rage and displeasure by 29 is worrying, you might want to speak to someone.

[phandaal]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I think that's a good summary, theres a leap between "I don't like that idea" and "stop sucking off primaris marines whilst you get paid to spread propaganda by the evil corporation" which seems to just innately happen.

 

In reality, if you like something visually, awesome, even if I or others don't.

 

Yeah, although it is the sovereign right of every nerd to see everything related to our hobbies as life or death, black or white, you vs me at all costs.

 

One of these days I might make a post to show just how many Mk X kits I have bought, assembled, and painted despite having a strong dislike for the lore and a strong preference for the older aesthetic.

 

Problem is 1- they are all stored away and it would take effort, and 2- I don't really care enough to do that. 

[NorthernUltramarines]

6 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

In fact? I will put this in the politest possible language I can muster given my feelings on the matter- if you think what we have now is better than what we used to have when the game was actually good, you are partially responsible for the state of it, and I do not want you or your ilk in this hobby. The pursuit of mainstream success with an audience who neither knows nor cares about what made 40K interesting to begin with was a massive mistake, and the failure to gatekeep reflects poorly on us all. I had something I liked. People like you turned it into something I don't. People like you took it away. I am under no duress or obligation to have any warm feelings towards you for this.

 

When the hobby trumpet breaks, and GW collapses under the weight of the number of spurned former customers, I will be laughing. They- and you- will not be missed.

 

I really don't think people should be told to leave the hobby because they have a different view to the way something plays or looks. If everyone who likes the new direction GW have taken their game left, the hobby and company would most likely fall apart. You and people who prefer the older versions of the game can still play them and still buy firstborn models, but it's mean to start attacking someone because they like how something looks.

[HeadlessCross]

35 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

There is nothing edgy about calling out blatant shilling

Saying Primaris look better than midget Marines isn't shilling, nor is it shilling to say the short Bolters look worse and aren't imposing. 

[Scribe]

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The Horus Heresy was in full swing. We got detailed histories of the Legions, the ancient past de-mistified, Primarch models were running around tabletops. The 30k setting was as much a story.

 

Sure, a specific and contained time period, where we could play out the foundational events of the Imperium, with tech and units, and Primarchs, that had no business being in 40K. An entire setting that GW could build out and we could play in that was distinct. Great, no problem. That it also appealed to the grey haired among us, that it was also based on the better rule set, as 40K began its decent into foolishness, I'm sure that had nothing to do with anything, right?

 

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Primarchs returning in 40k, a main narrative, etc. These are all the result of what the public found most appealing, as was evidenced in the HH. And Primaris were a massive success - their introduction was the start of the biggest growth in the success of the brand. 

 

No. The Primarch's returning to 40K, the main narrative, is nothing but GW's increasing desire post Chapter House to control the narrative, control the visuals, and make money because well "If Primarchs sell in 30K...duh lets put them in 40K! - Some Idiot with an MBA." The timing of Primaris had nothing to do with their success. Look at the nerd space around 2020 and tell me what you find in other communities. HINT: Massive money was being spent on everything geek, because everyone was locked down.

 

The fact GW has been slowly backing off the Primaris (Sternguard, Terminators, other individual units here and there) says much.

 

I can tell you right now, if they could snap their fingers and erase the Primaris Issue from everyones mind, and keep the upscaled units? They would do so.

 

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Also, 8th edition was released in 2017 and the Primarchs started to return before that in 7th edition. You might wanna double check the dates.

 

I was lied to by an Abominable Intelligence hallucination! You are right!

 

I'd still take a look at the jump in GW around 2020 to 2021 (9th) because that is when there was the biggest growth. It wasnt 8th/Primaris, it was Covid lockdowns, just like in other nerd spaces.

Edited 18 hours ago by Scribe

[Scribe]

45 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I feel you should give this a watch.

 

Oh and no, I'm not going to watch some obvious click baiter youtube video. If someone wants to actually make an argument, and read an actual response in return, then they can transcribe it.

 

(And no, I wont go click on the transcription link either, I dont give youtubers views.)

[Orange Knight]

That video is the exact opposite of clickbait, and that YouTuber has some of the best hobby related content and has interviewed multiple Black Library authors.

You should watch it so you're aware of what traps NOT to fall into.

 

25 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

 

The fact GW has been slowly backing off the Primaris (Sternguard, Terminators, other individual units here and there) says much.

 

I can tell you right now, if they could snap their fingers and erase the Primaris Issue from everyones mind, and keep the upscaled units? They would do so.

 

 

Hard to say. They've made more money and found more success since the introduction of Primaris than ever before. They would probably do everything the same!

 

The kits that are being released were likely always planned in one way or another. I spoke with a GW artist many years ago and was told they had 10+ years of releases in the works, and that eventually you will see upgrades to all classic units as well as new things. This was in 2018.

Edited 18 hours ago by Orange Knight

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Hard to say. They've made more money and found more success since the introduction of Primaris than ever before. They would probably do everything the same!

 

The kits that are being released were likely always planned in one way or another. I spoke with a GW artist many years ago and was told they had 10+ years of releases in the works, and that eventually you will see upgrades to all classic units as well as new things. This was in 2018.

 

They wouldnt. They found more success, because of Covid. They would not do everything the same.

 

They retconned the 'flagship release' novel series.

They are now just releasing upscaled units, with call backs to pre-Primaris, or just plain old upscaled (Terminators).

 

They would absolutely be releasing new kits, I mean it doesnt take a genius to realize that if you can squeeze your primary client (marine players) for an entire replacement of their army, and they will THANK YOU for it, you should do so, but the Primaris lore is a travesty.

 

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

That video is the exact opposite of clickbait, and that YouTuber has some of the best hobby related content and has interviewed multiple Black Library authors.

 

Good for him, unless he's fighting the good fight to get us back to good novels and lore, I'm not interested.

 

Let me know if he has asked Wraight to save us, and why Abnett decided to ruin the Siege of Terra series. I assume he has not interviewed ADB, since ADB has left us in the wilderness to die.

[Orange Knight]

2 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

They wouldnt. They found more success, because of Covid. They would not do everything the same.

 

 

 

Objectively and utterly false. 40k's biggest jump in success began during 8th edition. 

 

That was 3 years before Covid. 

 

I know you want something to be true, but it's not.

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Good for him, unless he's fighting the good fight to get us back to good novels and lore, I'm not interested.

 

 

Maybe you should watch that video. He knows a lot more about the lore than you probably ever will.

[Scribe]

53 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

When the hobby trumpet breaks, and GW collapses under the weight of the number of spurned former customers, I will be laughing.

 

That probably wont happen either. We have had an entire edition as a beta test, and people are still buying 40K. Near 2.5 years, another half year till its replaced (and GW laughs at people buying up the next version, again) and it still is being altered.

 

They have way too many people hooked, and frankly they dont even care about the game. At this point I bet most 'fans' are hobby first, game later. They dont play.

 

Just consume, buy the next version, and repeat.

[Orange Knight]

@Scribe

 

You shouldn't be so confident in your opinion when it's based on objectively wrong information, as I pointed out above.

 

And you aren't going to sway people to your side by insulting them for simply enjoying the hobby. 

[Scribe]

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

bjectively and utterly false. 40k's biggest jump in success began during 8th edition. 

 

That was 3 years before Covid. 

 

 

 

 

Right....

[Orange Knight]

Yes, that shows the growth began in 2017/2018.

 

And it kept going.

 

8th edition was the catalyst for success that broke decades of stagnation, and since then GW have been on an upwards trajectory and yes - they have gone far beyond their highs during Covid.

 

You've made my point for me?

Edited 17 hours ago by Orange Knight

[SvenIronhand]

Well, this escalated quickly. I feel like you can disagree on the direction LOTD lore has taken without calling people shills.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

He knows a lot more about the lore than you probably ever will.

 

I'd hope so, if hes getting Black Library authors to show up, I'm quite sure he would want to both know what he's talking about, and toe the corporate line to stay in GW/BL good graces to continue making money off his side hustle youtube.

 

Then again, if he knows more than I ever will, I would expect he would also see that the direction of GW lore, in fits and starts, is terrible, as meta plots always fail and do damage to their settings.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Yes, that shows the growth began in 2017/2018.

 

And it kept going.

 

8th edition was the catalyst for success that broke decades of stagnation, and since then GW have been on an upwards trajectory and yes - they have gone far beyond their highs during Covid.

 

You've made my point for me?

 

 

Thats certainly an interpretation, I would ask you to do some math and look at how it actually went (hint x 2 it was 9th/Covid, not 8th) but I'm not going to argue that GW is bad at business, they clearly are smashing it despite the fact hobbyists cannot even get their product. 

 

Not that it matters, the shareholders just see Stock X created, Stock X sold out, path themselves on the back for the companies 70% profit margins, and take in the money.

[Orange Knight]

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

 

Thats certainly an interpretation, I would ask you to do some math and look at how it actually went (hint x 2 it was 9th/Covid, not 8th) but I'm not going to argue that GW is bad at business, they clearly are smashing it despite the fact hobbyists cannot even get their product. 

 

Not that it matters, the shareholders just see Stock X created, Stock X sold out, path themselves on the back for the companies 70% profit margins, and take in the money.

 

Growth began in 8th edition. It's literally what I said.

 

That graph shows that to be true.

 

it's the first time the company had steady growth for decades, so yes, it's significant.

[Scribe]

13 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Growth began in 8th edition. It's literally what I said.

 

It began with the Warhammer Community site, following Kirby *stepping down, who hated the gamers that made up GW's fanbase. 8th was released in June of 2017, the stock price had been rising all year prior to 8th.

 

It was not till Covid, that GW became supercharged, just like several other public nerd companies.

Edited 16 hours ago by Scribe

[Orange Knight]

10 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

It began with the Warhammer Community site, following Kirby *stepping down, who hated the gamers that made up GW's fanbase. 8th was released in June of 2017, the stock price had been rising all year prior to 8th.

 

It was not till Covid, that GW became supercharged, just like several other public nerd companies.

 

End of 7th had a boost in sales, but it was 8th edition that began the growth.

 

And do you know why I'm so aware of this? Because I watched my shares in GW start to rise and it was exciting. 

 

I've since sold them, btw lol

Edited 6 hours ago by Orange Knight

[Scribe]

Just now, Orange Knight said:

I've since sold them, btw lol

 

I hope you made out like a bandit!