If you could change anything in the lore what would you change?

[Ahzek451]

As Terry once said (space king).....K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.

Echoing others, but the plethora of mysteries left unanswered was a big part of the secret sauce that made the grimdark setting awesome. Its ok to unravel a few mysteries now and again, but not like this. In my humble summarized opinion, grimdark is slipping from 40k, there are enough retcons to make someone go cross-eyed, and the state of how so many characters are handled(looking at you primarchs) is so.....Trying to find a word other than lackluster but that's all I have for now. 

Yet another vote for rolling back the primaris. Keep the models, just un-do the whole cawl secret army thing. Most people would not have batted an eye at a natural progression in marine tech and truescale. 

I feel so bad for Ynarri fans, others have already said why. What a dead-end plot thread. 

I am on conflicted on returning primarchs. A big part of me wants to go back, but not at the cost of losing the models. In my perfect world, the daemon primarchs would have models, but only playable in apocalypse level games(but we all know this is silly, locking them out of normal games would hinder sales in GW's eyes). A lot of the rollout of the returning primarchs has been...mostly forgettable with the daemon primarchs being relegated to sat morning cartoon villains (I'll get you next time Roboute! Mwa ha ha ha). To an extent the same could be said for the Silent King. Having them active and available in normal games has sort of cheapened them. Having primarchs return also blurs the division between heresy and 40k. In the sense that if they all come back(and oh please don't get me started on resurrecting dead primarchs), I would feel like the only difference between the 2 is one has more aliens in it. 

 

[Frogian]

 

8 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

Echoing others, but the plethora of mysteries left unanswered was a big part of the secret sauce that made the grimdark setting awesome. 
 

 

the horus heresy should never have been told, but remained a series of conflicting rumours and scraps of information...

 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Frogian said:

 

 

the horus heresy should never have been told, but remained a series of conflicting rumours and scraps of information...

 

 

This is an unpopular opinion that I agree with wholeheartedly. When it was a couple of novels showing pivotal moments, it was OK, but now it has been picked apart in minute detail for years. We may even know more about the Heresy than any other one campaign in 40k. There is quite literally no mythology left. It is just a historical record now.

 

And don't get me started on the way the two settings are beginning to merge. Things jump directly from 30k to 40k with no regard for the intervening time, and unless it happened in one of those time periods (i.e., the times for which GW maintains current model ranges), it might as well be nothing.

 

Do we care about what happened in M40, M39, 38, 37 etc? Despite those time periods being thousands of years in the past from the current setting and prime for epic battles and ancient legends, they are passed over in a snap. When was the last time we got a story like Death of Integrity, for example.

[Kaede45]

Given some of the responses, I feel a bit of a need to clarify my “Tyrannid comment.”

 

The thought is somewhat parroted from a 40K loretuber. Basically, we are told that the Tyrannids are an apocalyptic, galaxy-ending threat from beyond the known galaxy. As cool as that is, eventually you run into at least 2 problems:

1. If they are so powerful, why have they not eaten everything in the galaxy?

2. If they’re such a major threat to everyone, why hasn’t every other faction pushed hard to eradicate the Tyrannids?

Effectively we have the problem of them being both over-powered & under-powered at the same time. From what we are told about them, they are very powerful, well organized & incredibly intelligent, but in spite of their numerous advantages, they have yet to destroy a major world. The worlds they have destroyed are just names with no backgrounds rather than worlds we have clear connections to like Cadia or Armageddon. Also, being that they are commanded by a single organized Hivemind, it’s hard to reason why they can’t overcome the various factions whose unity is suspect at best.

Everything we know about the Tyrannids says they should have either won by now or had every other faction form a temporary alliance to completely eradicate them. Of all the factions, they are the only one that has no internal divisions that would compromise their ability to conquer the entire galaxy. The main thought would be to give that to them. The various hive fleets having their own sort of individuality that has a common purpose, yet conflicts with the others in terms of how to achieve said purpose would help give an explanation as to why they haven’t conquered the galaxy or got the other factions to unite against them.

[Scribe]

16 minutes ago, Kaede45 said:

1. If they are so powerful, why have they not eaten everything in the galaxy?

 

Because before GW started ruining things, they had "just arrived".

 

Setting > Metaplot.

[AvePicante]

11 minutes ago, Kaede45 said:

 

1. If they are so powerful, why have they not eaten everything in the galaxy?

2. If they’re such a major threat to everyone, why hasn’t every other faction pushed hard to eradicate the Tyrannids?

 

 

I'm by no means an expert on 40k lore so please correct me if I'm wrong 

The Tyranids have only been around for a few hundred to a few thousand years, right? They were first recognized as a united faction within the last ~500 years but have possibly been active for as many as ~5000 years. With the speed of communication in 40k, I'd assume most of the galaxy aren't even aware they exist. And they don't use warp travel or anything special, just drifting through space. So, it's not so much that they aren't a major threat and that they can't eat everything, but this is only the beginning stages of their attack, they're slowly drifting into our galaxy and while we can win these first few early battles. It's like standing up to an oncoming tsunami. It could be 10 years before they fully arrive, it could be 10,000.

[ZeroWolf]

31 minutes ago, AvePicante said:

 

I'm by no means an expert on 40k lore so please correct me if I'm wrong 

The Tyranids have only been around for a few hundred to a few thousand years, right? They were first recognized as a united faction within the last ~500 years but have possibly been active for as many as ~5000 years. With the speed of communication in 40k, I'd assume most of the galaxy aren't even aware they exist. And they don't use warp travel or anything special, just drifting through space. So, it's not so much that they aren't a major threat and that they can't eat everything, but this is only the beginning stages of their attack, they're slowly drifting into our galaxy and while we can win these first few early battles. It's like standing up to an oncoming tsunami. It could be 10 years before they fully arrive, it could be 10,000.

I believe this is very much the case.

 

As for why no major world's have fallen to the Nids, that's because GW wants their cake and to eat it, with 40k being both a setting and a narrative (an incredibly difficult tightrope to walk as its very easy to fail at both). 

[NTaW]

I used to think that I didn't like the new lore, that it wasn't grimdark anymore.

 

Then I spent the last couple months listening to a slew of books from the events of Fall of Cadia through to the Lion's awakening and my opinion changed. If anything I now have a plethora of descriptions of human life and the state of the Imperium much more grim than before. I took a break and listened to some older books, early 2000s stuff, and it wasn't any more grim or dark than the new stuff.

 

I think the thing I would appreciate most is improved continuity in the book releases. For example, the Dawn of Fire series. Book 1, Indomitus, and book 9 tether a plot together where books 2-8 bounce around. I'm now listening to the 3-book series starting with The Carrion Throne and was pleased when the same characters showed up in the subsequent book, The Hollow Mountain.

[Scribe]

25 minutes ago, NTaW said:

The Carrion Throne and was pleased when the same characters showed up in the subsequent book, The Hollow Mountain.

 

It's a self contained, single author, peak of 40K, trilogy.

[Kaede45]

1 hour ago, AvePicante said:

The Tyranids have only been around for a few hundred to a few thousand years, right? They were first recognized as a united faction within the last ~500 years but have possibly been active for as many as ~5000 years. With the speed of communication in 40k, I'd assume most of the galaxy aren't even aware they exist. And they don't use warp travel or anything special, just drifting through space. So, it's not so much that they aren't a major threat and that they can't eat everything, but this is only the beginning stages of their attack, they're slowly drifting into our galaxy and while we can win these first few early battles. It's like standing up to an oncoming tsunami. It could be 10 years before they fully arrive, it could be 10,000.

This… makes a lot more sense. It kinda reminds me of how the opening tagline “there is only war” is actually false, because while it appears that way in isolation & no doubt the Imperium would do everything to force everyone to believe it, most of the galaxy is at relative peace.

[TheMawr]

3 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

I feel so bad for Ynarri fans, others have already said why. What a dead-end plot thread. 
 

 

Doesnt help that its not just from GW side.

While their miniatures and the premise of the big setting changes drew me back ( I conceptually love there is an imperhium nihilus.. its just not really there..), I initially wasnt really sold on the Ynnari concept itself, I was just going to use them as corsairs. It was mostly Jes goodwins enthusiasm when talking about them that infected me. However these two things always formed the lense through wich I saw them, with the soup premise being a rules-stopgap and the cronesword plotline not being their identity ( same way alot of armies and characters have a big purpose they never achieve not meaning the army or character shouldnt exist, Ahriman for example,.)

 

Other things that they can be involved in ; Seek and adapt elements of not only the old eldar empire, but also the old ones. But in such an extreme and over confident way that they do not eschew "tainted" things. Have them be a faction that ventures into and even settle haunted craftworlds, fallen exodite worlds and croneworlds alike. But always keep it ambigious, leave the door open for them already being tainted or being misguided. Basically.. make them extreme corsairs with a grander plan.

 

And while thats not about lore, thats where I'd take them.. a third Eldar codex that encompasses the more exotic elements of Corsairs/Exodites and even croneworld flavor, with Ynnari being their Black legion and Yvraine being that army's abaddon. No soup or allies, as the whole point of leaving craftworlds or commoragh is that a guardian or aspect warrior or kabalite warrior stop being that, they become voidreavers basically. ( and yes, I said third eldar codex, I have a controversial opinion about harlequins, I think these should always be a part of each of the 3 factions, slightly different in each of them, but not necessarily being different "individuals"... a harlequin masque fighting alongside drukhari is crueller than the same masque fighting alongside asuryani.. this enriches for me the alienness of their identity and is so very cegorach, though I doubt pure harlequin fans would agree.)

 

There are quite some lore elements I'd change on them though, some of these never where the case to begin with and some have been already adressed recently
-- Not have every single aeldari character be ynnari aligned, Yriel has a cronesword and is a corsair so he should be in that corner, but remain the Eldritch raiders leader. ( basically.. Huron blackheart of above mentioned codex.) but Eldrad=Ulthwé, Iyanna Arienal=Iyanden and these should be and always remain craftworlders, same with phoenix lords.
-- Dont make them this big movement, smaller is better imho.
-- Dont have them be friends with everyone, the Grey knights specifically hunting them was good development imho. But dont have them interact with everything either, I quite like that the only out-of-eldar connection right now is Ahriman ( still the case in 10th editions thousand sons codex), and not Emperors children.. but I cant really explain why I like that.
-- Dont have everything revolve around the 3 named characters, or the croneswords plot. There easily is and should be more.
-- Dont have every major eldar story revolve around them ( even though I do hope that if Yriel is part of an end of edition campaign they are adressed as well.)

 

Im ok with them being "darker" and more questionable ( actually, they have always been ) but, while I personally dont hate it, I just dont think its the killy/sacrificial/death/soul shenanigans theme part that would have other eldar raise their eyebrow. The way that is done is off-brand for all factions involved. ( admittedly, the codex doesnt name those elements as the extremities, its actually quite vague what they mean.) things that would be on-brand to be considered extreme by other eldar :
For example use soulstones to capture souls of other races or even capture daemons and weaponise/utilise that.. but make it ambigious that there are side effects. This wouldnt even be new lore, Harlequins ( of the same masque that triggered the whole ynnari plot to begin with ) where doing this already.
This would be something thats extreme for Asuryani and Drukhari alike, for different reasons.

 

and to round it off ( I already use too many words, and more will follow ), one that bothers me alot :

 

The Visarch -
I would retcon the visarch being an exarch.. as this breaks important lore imho. In general I would retcon some exarch lore.
Exarchs shouldnt/arent leaders in the authority definition of the word, and they definitely shouldnt be mentors. I envision exarchs being pure weapons, any individuality gone. They meditate in chambers in their shrines ( maybe on some craftworlds they are even locked away.) until its time for war, they lead their aspect warriors in the sense that they dive headlong into battle and the others follow their lead. If there even is communication coming from them it should be detached, until they die, they are completely and utterly lost in the path of war. ( Im coming back to this.)

Instead, there is room for a role among the aspect shrines of a veteran aspect warrior that did NOT get lost on the path of the warrior. They are experienced but they are not exarchs. On the battlefield they fight as equals to their other warriors behind the exarchs ( though I even think this part should be optional in the game, not all aspect warrior units should have exarchs, but this is about lore.) Such a mentor role probably will have a title in the shrine.. I dont know.. maybe something like Visarch ? So The Visarch is just a comparable name to "The Mentor" or "The Sensei" or "The Professor" wich isnt an uncommon trope for similar characters. This retcon alone could solve the exarch problem.

 

BUT it can be done without a hard retcon. Its possible to make it a gradual addition from there rather than a hard retcon.

He was the Visarch of the shrine when he knew yvraine, but he became an exarch later when she was already an outcast. At a certain time he was being hunted by Incubi of the coiled blade and one of theirs killed him and took his soulstone (but fails to damage it properly). It was to avenge this that caused yvraine to go to commoragh in the first place ( she is already shown to be agressive and impulsive ), a decision not taken that well by some of her corsair crew. Ofcourse one does not simply walk in commoragh, she avoided worse fates as lady malys claimed her ( already part of the canon, and a link that makes stupid coincedence more a just as planned by cegorach thing.) this way the Visarch was only "born" the moment the dysjunction happened.. though I do like if Laarian was always a subtle but confused voice in the Incubi's head. Maybe it was even only the Incubi who was a big fan of commorite arena Yvraine, with Laarian himself not even carrying similar feelings. the resulting personality being a hybrid of souls/memories/personalities.
This would fix a lot of lore that doesnt make sense or is too coincidental for my taste. It would also put a good explanation as to Yvraine's distance.

 

 

So thats my brief take on Ynnari associated lore changes.
Up next, everything else :p ( hopefully with less words nobody will read )

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

16 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

This is the most catharsis @Scribe has gotten in months

All that pent-up anger locked away behind emotion inhibitors and logic subroutines got unleashed with the flick of a mental switch. He is a true Iron Hand at heart.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Edgy interjection post incoming.

 

People who stopped engaging with the lore the better part of a decade ago make for poor judges of it.

 

Edgy interjection post over with.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

1. Newcrons get replaced by Necrons.

 

2. Tyranids don´t strip planets off organic resources anymore. This means you can give Tyranids in storylines a lot of victories without crippling the entire setting to a slow death because habitable planets in the Milky Way are quite rare. Tyranid mind slaves make a comeback as well as Tyranid squig creatures.

 

3. Some lore from Rogue Trader makes a comeback.  A few examples: The custodes are bare-chested gigachads never leaving Terra. The Eye of Terror seals of a considerable area of space around it when closed. However it opens for a short period of time in intervals allowing the Astartes to launch crusades restoring law and order to backwater planets which have been sealed off for decades. You can look forward to marines strip-searching hoodlums and shootouts in crime-riddled cantinas.

[Scribe]

51 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Edgy interjection post incoming.

 

People who stopped engaging with the lore the better part of a decade ago make for poor judges of it.

 

Edgy interjection post over with.

 

I think not.

 

"It is not cowardice, to retreat in disgust."

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Edgy interjection post incoming.

 

People who stopped engaging with the lore the better part of a decade ago make for poor judges of it.

 

Edgy interjection post over with.

 

Thinking about newer stuff, I actually do want to rant about some of it.

 

Speaking of my last post, in the recent Avenging Son novel, they have a mechanicus drone go on and on about how great Cawl is, and the drone claims that Cawl is so awesome that he even caught the AI from the Spirit of Eternity (the Dark Age vessel trapped in the heart of the Death of Integrity) and beat it in a game of wits.

 

Obviously it was meant to be a ridiculous claim like "I could throw a football over that mountain," but why would the random drone know about that one particular ship that was mainly referenced in obscure, two thousand year old records, especially when any knowledge of the Abominable Intelligence controlling the Spirit of Eternity that DID manage to survive for thousands of years would have been either locked away or purged?

 

So that was pretty stupid, and I would like that retconned. Hopefully a five year old book is not too old to complain about. For newer stuff, I could also mock the Terminus Decree "reveal", or Gav Thorpe's Votann being utterly mystified by Tyranid ships because they are just real big aren't they, or the stupid new lore about Grey Knights committing heresy against other Space Marines on a galactic scale. Or Custodes in the new Codex not knowing that void shields block teleportation...

 

It is all pretty silly and I would like all of that deleted too thanks.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:08 PM by phandaal
Being more nicer

[NTaW]

I suppose I should say that I've always kept up to date in the lore through novels and campaign books, but recently have kicked it up and really gotten into the Era Indomitus novels.

 

To speak on a spot of lore dear to my heart, I'd love to see GW do something with a loose and independent C'Tan shard. Specifically, on a quest collecting shards of itself and subjugating Tomb Worlds to build an army along the way. No need to get rid of any of the other lore that exists, and recreates a key aspect of the OldCron lore. I've come to like the idea of Shards more over the years, but recently reading Nightbringer (2002) was the tipping point. I quite liked the book, but the depiction of a Shard at the end of one of the Fabius Bile books got my imagination spinning more.

[SvenIronhand]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

or the stupid new lore about Grey Knights committing heresy against other Space Marines on a galactic scale.

The Grey Knights have always been holier-than-thou team-killers. Flame Falcons, the Wolves, any Imperial Guard unlucky enough to see a daemon in their stupid lore, god knows who else. I myself don’t like their lore in general. I don’t know why the Terminus Decree was the straw that broke some. peoples’ back.

[Astartes Consul]

In the spirit of trying to avoid the obvious stuff, here are my 2 cents…

 

1. Necrons should have remained the blank, Lovecraftian horror that they were in their first Codex in 4th edition. Admittedly some of the recent books have been quite fun, but in general they were much creepier in that first incarnation.

 

2. Said it before, but Armageddon being Ullanor should never have been allowed. Nuke it. Extreme prejudice.

 

3. Abaddon should have gone missing after the 13th Black Crusade. Vanished into the maelstrom of the warp when the rift opens. Sporadic sightings all over the galaxy. Accounts for chaos having ‘won’ but not able to take advantage. Traitor Primarchs rise in power in his absence.

 

4. No grav tanks for Space Marines

[phandaal]

9 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

The Grey Knights have always been holier-than-thou team-killers. Flame Falcons, the Wolves, any Imperial Guard unlucky enough to see a daemon in their stupid lore, god knows who else. I myself don’t like their lore in general. I don’t know why the Terminus Decree was the straw that broke some. peoples’ back.

 

The point is, they don't even need to kill other Space Marines and take their recruits. There are more psykers in the galaxy now, according to recent lore. They have more potential recruits already, or at least enough to make up for whatever they miss because the Great Rift cuts off half of the galaxy. Or they would if their new lore didn't just totally ignore other recent lore.

[TheMawr]

Its always a difficult topic, I have many ideas but I dislike wishing someones else stuff away, thats always been a big no for me, and I find myself unable to even theorise this way ( except the aforementioned ynnari one where I want soup the way it is to go as it doesnt really make sense... but its gradually happening anyway.) 

 

Lets start with a "funny" one :
Make the Substance canon.. that entire movie felt so very Slaanesh; obsession, desire for perfection at all cost. Hell if the logo on the boxes or anything was subtly referencing a slaanesh symbol it wouldnt be out of place at all. 

Spoiler

The end result was even her turning into a chaos spawn.

 

next some "light" ones :

 

Shalaxi Helbane -
So I lied that I was done with Ynnari associated lore changes, wich is coincidentally the topic here. Even beyond the Phoenix rising narrative, in general I truelly dislike that Slaanesh would have the martially superior "godslayer" character.. if it was a khorne daemon it would be "fine" (honestly the powers ascribed to it arent fine at all, but sure, it would have been in khornes domain at least.) the retcon here wouldnt be changing anything that happened, but rather, why/how it happened. Shalaxi taps into and bends things like faith/confidence/conviction and bends it the other way around. Its the ultimate lie personified. It can undo gods because of the faith the followers of a god have.  It can defeat a Bloodthirster because of its confidence in its superiority... it defeated all those combined powers in phoenix rising because their collective combination of these "emotions" but it couldnt finish the job and kill a weakened yvraine.. not because yvraine is so powerful but because in that moment she was weak, defeated and desperate.. completely minimizing shalaxi's power. And that to me, that sounds more like a slaanesh daemon. But at the other side of the spectrum the hopelessness created is also one of shalaxis power, indeed capable of destroying a god, by undoing it. In short I would change shalaxi helbane to be the ultimate mindfk personified, not the ultimate warrior/hunter. And I would leave the possibility open that everything from that book was a lie.. for us the observer.. but not for the parties involved. ( its more interesting that way... hope has no place in 40k :p )

Tzaangor -
I'd prefer if tzaangor where a "xenos" species rather than mutants, first and foremost this is because I dont think tzeentch mutants should ever be this uniform. However I wont change it in such a way that the current lore isnt really retconned either; its a xenos species that reproduces by changing the other species internally, this ofcourse is already done in the setting with GSC, but with tzaangor its much more immediate and much more psychic. When encountering a tzaangor ( or hearing them ) the vision/sound leave an impression and this impression changes into an obsession and confusion.. the reciptant starts to hear voices in the caws and sees a tzaangor in its reflection until this thought completely consumes the reciptant and they become their thought, as such a new tzaangor is born. ( I have a deja vu I posted this before in a similar topic.)
When I say "xenos" it could just as well be a warp originated species.. just not plainly abhumans. ( and represent lore for it too... I could especially see a bit with a whole kroot population turning into tzaangors ) like the above is to make the subject more slaanesh, this would make tzaangor more tzeentch imho ( a general rule of thumb... I'd like chaos to be much more .. chaos )

 

 

Ethereals are always holograms -
This one I actually thought was the case before the storyline about Aun'shi ( or aun'va ?) but I think I recently talked about this.. and its probably that when I returned I'd read that story superfically first before knowing anything else. I thought they where named ethereals for the very reason that they are ethereal and there is a possibility they are holograms or like the unsent from final fantasy x.
And I like that, even though I now know better, I still like that. Its a step beyond "oh maybe they are secretly evil." and goes into "oh maybe they are secretly AI" it doesnt even have to be a public secret, Tau have hologram technology and Ethereals are too valuable to waste on the ( from the tau perspective at least ) escalatingly growing dangers out in the field. But it opens the door for to me interesting conspiracies that the tau are already run by AI.
Problem is though, it needs to be a defeatable hologram for the game..

 

 

On to the hot take changes I would make :

 

Shining Spears/Crimson hunters are not aspect warriors and dont have phoenix lords or exarchs -
This one bothered me way back with shining spears, and it was even more exagerated with crimson hunters. It just doesnt add up for me. Its the similar thing I complained about with spacemarines once that made me make the spacemarine janitor image.
At one side I feel the aspect warriors should be more martial and those two being among the aspect warriors takes away from that. Apart from the crimson hunters it isnt the biggest issue though, its the other side where its a miss.
The Path system is bigger than the path of war, and ofcourse this is a war game so the focus will lie with the war aspect. Nonetheless Crimson hunters should be on the path of the pilot. And even craftworlds/armies that dont delve deep in aspect warriors should have that path ( not that I like planes in the game anyway, but thats another point.) I dont even think alot of people would disagree with this one, the deeper you dive into crimson hunter aspect warriors the weirder it gets. especially keeping in mind that I see exarchs as an alien concept, not just eldar who are very good at something.

Shining spears is more subjective, but it has more to do with something I miss from them specifically and a craftworld role in general. I feel the concept and the miniatures lend themselves very well for a jetbike riding jousting knights vibe. Each potentially with their own individual banners, crests and colors. This especially feels as something that very Saim hann. Detaching them from the path of the warrior you can individualise their concept per craftworld ( not individual datasheets or miniatures, just the lore. ) for Iyanden these are the last scions of fallen houses, carrying into battle the banners to honor their kin that fight as ghost warriors, a more ritual position. for Ulthwé they are elites that accompany seers into battle... a more guarding role. Meanwhile on Biel tan they are exodite survivers from worlds biel tan couldnt protect, adapted to craftworld life but fighting close to how they where used to, from the saddle. Alaitoc, being the militaristic craftworld, would have them be more close to what they are now. They all follow the Path of the jouster or something, but who does, why and how varies from craftworld to craftworld, a variability aspect warriors dont and shouldnt have that strong.

In a game sense this also expands their role, where they can accompany Farseers and warlocks on jetbikes. 

 

Then retcon the lost phoenix lord into an anonymous one with an unknown aspect shrine.. and forever keep it like that. No further phoenix lords ( including the forgeworld one, but those who want can head canon that one as the last one.) 

 

 

The fall of the eldar -

Move and expand the timeline of this entire part.. this is almost impossible as so many stories are involved with this, and yet it is in a way the most essential change on my list.

The fall started and ended long before the events of the horus heresy, every living eldar should be post-fall, their parents should be post-fall... maybe their great grand parents where young children when it happened, but rather not. Those on the craftworlds have already been there for generations. There might be a collective memory of these times.. eldar are after all a psychic alien species that used to reincarnate, sometimes they might even feel as if it was their experience, especially for older eldar. I feel that someone like Vect would have a strong enough ego that is previous incarnations are still considered him by himself, but make that an "optional explanation" ( in general toy more with the eldar understanding of the ego/the self being not exactly the same as it is for humans.)

Its just that this mythological era for a long lived species got really messed up when they expanded the Horus heresy, and a lot of things just dont make sense through it. Maybe this is because I dont experienced this gradually.. when I left horus heresy era was distant mythology and when I returned there was a game with boardgames, a book series etc. etc. and it just didnt make sense of what I remembered from 2nd edition. 

 

 

Avatars of Khaine -

I like some things to be more ambiguous, and this is one of them. I love the avatar of khaine, I love that it is a walking shard of a god, I dont love that its 99% true that is exactly what it is. I like the whole is it ancient science or is it magic ambiguity with eldar myth and the old ones, or wether the gods where real, mythologised old ones or manifestations of a psychic race. the avater of khaine ruins that ( as does, by extension the yncarne ) but how else would you explain their existence.

As eldar where a psychic race that eventually transcended the need for personal effort I'd assume they used something like the ghost warriors to do their fighting, its more convenient to have a central hub to control said psychically controlled warriors more efficiently. I dont think their tech was as simple as mind control, but rather they sent their souls, or a part of their soul to do the fighting. ( a technology also visible in Haemonculi's arsenal.) 

The eldar being the eldar they shaped these hubs like gigantic statues of their war god made of psycho-reactive materials.

When the great cataclysm happened these statues turned into something half alive.. the superstitious eldar thinking shards of their war god landed into them. ( and this is one possible truth ) the scientific eldar thinking its rageful souls that where syphoned into them. ( also a possible truth ) reality being both or neither, but, we will never know.

 

 

 

Yeah, thats enough stirring the pot ( I had a lot of deja vus writing these, have we had a topic like this recently ??)

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Astartes Consul said:

2. Said it before, but Armageddon being Ullanor should never have been allowed. Nuke it. Extreme prejudice.

 

This one was far too cute. Someone really thought this was a good idea.

 

"How can we really shrink the setting."

[sitnam]

The number of chapters with unknown lineages should be drastically dwindled down. The presence of unknown Primarchs fuels the speculation of chapters being from Traitor geneseed, which is a topic I genuinely dislike. It would be neat to have a chapter or two with suspects Primarchs, but it's not as interesting with more chapters in the discussion. Just because the Marines Malevolent or Minotaurs are jerks doesnt mean they are Iron Warriors successors, and such discussion takes away from what actually makes such chapters interesting.

 

I'm not a fan of the flanderization of chapters, and focusing on their lineage is part of that problem. Look at the Mortifactors. Nothing about them screams Ultramarine successors, and that's a good thing. 

[Magos Takatus]

I'm glad I came here late. My change is to press Ctrl + Z and undo some fraters' decision to just delete Cawl. Can the Adeptus Mechanicus please have one character that isn't some expendable goon that does something stupid and gets themselves killed in the same book they are introduced in? Almost every tech priest in the lore falls into the "victim of their own greed/dabbling with things that should be left alone" trope and I'm tired of it. Other factions get a stable of permanent characters, marines get dozens, but the one time Admech get one character people want him memory-holed. Sure, rewrite him to be less of a Mary-Sue for the Admech, make him a character that isn't such a loose cannon, whatever, but don't delete the only notable character we have. Who did we have other than him? That guy in Blackstone Fortress? Before that? Delphan Gruss, the rogue Magos back from the Inquisitor game in the early 2000's?

 

Even the Tyranids have more notable characters than us, and they are just tools of the hive mind.

 

Apart from that, Maybe introduce the characters from the Mechanicus videogame as mainline lore characters and give them their own models to tie in with Mechanicus 2, since they will get an in-game presence this time around?

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I do think GW should do something with the Ynari. Either give them something, develop them in some way or kill them off. Do something other than pretend they don't exist or reduce them to a line here or there in a BL novel.