If you could change anything in the lore what would you change?

[The Neverborn]

I might have to concede that point.

 

But I would also like a redemption arc in 40k and it to be well executed.  

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, The Neverborn said:

I might have to concede that point.

 

But I would also like a redemption arc in 40k and it to be well executed.  

 

Wrong IP.

[Brother Tyler]

12 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

The problem is, Chaos is eternal damnation. There is no recovering once Chaos corrupts someone.

 

The Illuminati want to have a word with you.

[SvenIronhand]

The Illuminati are just the mortal version of the Exorcist process, though.

[DukeLeto69]

If this is going off topic (as not about changes to the setting) then apologies and just nuke it…

 

The discussions about the nature of the Warp and by extension the Warp “Gods” is where the lore is (deliberately?) confusing.

 

At times it feels as though the Chaos “Gods” exist purely because of the emotions and actions of humanity. Yet that would imply only humanity would be impacted by it? Yet the Eldar pre-date humanity and created their own Chaos “God” so cannot therefore be a uniquely human “creation” and surely it is all sentient species? Confess to being rusty here!

 

If the Warp/Immaterium is a realm generated by emotions then it cannot only manifest what we consider negative emotions/actions and be subjectively “evil”. There MUST be “Good” Chaos “Gods” too due to the power of “positive” emotions. ie Love is as powerful as Hate (wrong example but hopefully you get my point).

 

I wrote “Evil” and “Good” in inverted commas because the perception of something being one or the other is subjective not objective and the Chaos “Gods” likely have no perception or perspective of what constitutes good or evil because they just are what they are. They do not place themselves or their “followers” on a linear scale from good to evil because they simply exist because the emotions/actions exist. If all wars, killing, martial prowess etc just stopped then Khorne ceases to exist right?

 

That is why, for me, the way some authors portray the “bad guys” as evil moustache twirling villains is simply wrong (and comical). They are not “evil” in their own minds. They are not the “bad guys” in their own minds. In fact it would be reversed for them no?  For me it would be far more sinister if these “bad guys” were/are portrayed as normal to our 21st Century eyes. Far scarier if what we perceive as evil is shown through their actions rather than their physical manifestation. The casual disregard for the life or wellbeing of others while from the outside being perceived/seen as “normal” is what feels really “evil”. 
 

Which means of course that the IoM is in fact “evil” and there are no “good guys” which for me is the heart of Grimdark and the nihilism that was always at the centre of the setting.

Edited October 28 by DukeLeto69

[The Neverborn]

So he's not a Primach - But Cypher/Fallen ? Could he have a redemption arc  ?

[Scribe]

4 hours ago, The Neverborn said:

So he's not a Primach - But Cypher/Fallen ? Could he have a redemption arc  ?

 

Conceptually yes. I believe it may have been ruined with how poorly they did the Lions return, but to keep things within the tone of the setting, it can only come at major costs of course.

[Jukkiz]

8 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Conceptually yes. I believe it may have been ruined with how poorly they did the Lions return, but to keep things within the tone of the setting, it can only come at major costs of course.

Is Cypher still carrying lions sword? Or is it more like a half-a-sword nowdays? What´s the point anyways?

[Evil Eye]

The closest thing I can think of to actual redemption for "traitors" is cases like the Soul Drinkers where they were never actually traitors (let alone Chaos worshippers) to begin with- rather they were intensely loyal to the Emperor but believed the Imperium itself was no longer carrying out His will. I forget what happened precisely but IIRC they were officially (posthumously) pardoned?

[Rain]

The various chapters that joined Huron in the Badab War were also pardoned, though at heavy cost, as their home planets were generally given over to the victorious loyalist chapters, they were sent on penitent crusades, etc.

 

Not quite the same thing, but there was also a novel inThe Beast Arises series that featured the Iron Warriors and I think it was Black Templars (of all chapters) joining forces against the Orks. I have not read it myself, but I recall reading about it, and it striking me as ridiculous on its face.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Not lore, but I would like to change artwork to be more John blanche. I miss his distinctive style. 

Edited October 29 by The Praetorian of Inwit

[Scribe]

38 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Not lore, but I would like to change artwork to be more John blanche. I miss his distinctive style. 

 

Yeah, I dread the day we lose Jes.

[Gorgoff]

I never liked his stuff and am glad they got rid of this. 

[Ahzek451]

I miss blanche, it was a perfect balance to see his art next to everyone else's for variety. Seeing his style contrasted with everyone else IS grimdark. 

[Scribe]

40K wouldn't be 40K without Blanche and Jes. That's all I know.

[Evil Eye]

Blanche and Goodwin pretty much defined the look of the universe for certain. There are other artists who I like more- Ian Miller, Karl Kopinski, Adrian Smith and the late great Wayne England- but those two are probably the most fundamentally important to the look of the setting. I know John Blanche retired as he's getting on a bit, so I can't be mad at him at all (and indeed I am not!) but I do miss his art.

 

Semi-related; One very slight tweak I'd make to the setting is to slightly alter and define the structure of the Inquisition somewhat. Notably there would be a few "Ordo Majoris" which we all know and love, each dedicated to a specific threat area- Hereticus (Enemy Within), Xenos (Enemy Without), Malleus (Enemy Beyond), Chronos (Enemy Yet to Come) and Vigilium (Enemy Among). Each Ordo Majoris however, rather than just being "a big one" is an umbrella organization that encompasses many, many, many smaller "Ordo Minoris" which deal with specific aspects of their field- some of which have already been mentioned in canon. For example, the Ordo Majoris Xenos contains the Minoris "Ordo Tyrannicus" dedicated to dealing with the Tyranids. An Inquisitor from this Ordo would mostly be referred to as Ordo Xenos, but their full title would be "Ordo Xenos Tyrannicus". Sometimes these Ordo Minoris are dedicated to specific races (Tyranids, Orks, Eldar etc) whilst other times- especially in the Hereticus- they are focused on more internal, structural or conceptual. For example, the Ordo Hereticus contains Ordo Minoris such as the Ordo Delectatus, whose role is to monitor and control Imperial entertainment media, the Ordo Agrarius, which oversees the inner workings of the food supply system of the Imperium, and the Ordo Sanctorum, which of course monitors the Ecclesiarchy itself. All Ordo Majoris have this structure, and the Minoris also have some degree of division in the same way. The Ordo Vigilum and Chronos are odd ducks in that they have fairly few Ordo Minoris. The Ordo Vigilum is dedicated to the policing and moderation of the Inquisition itself, whilst the Ordo Chronos- an extremely important, specialized and secretive Ordo dedicated to threats relating to the timestream- is very small compared to the other Ordo Majoris. There's also the Ordo Necros, which is a separate Ordo of its own and outside of the Ordo Vigilum Necros- created specifically to oversee them- nobody really knows what they're doing. In fact, the Ordo Vigilum Necros and Ordo Necros do not officially exist even within the Inquistion, and the only ones that know of them being their respective members. As for the Ordo Necros itself, we the audience are not intended to know what their actual role is other than it involves an existential threat to reality itself.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Actually something I would love to change is the Emperor getting a name. I know Neoth is probably not his true name but giving him any mame made him less of an enigma. I prefer Big E to be an unknowable entity. We know he loves humanity as a species and he's a perpetual. That's all we really needed to know. I feel like giving him any name made him too close to us. 

[ThaneOfTas]

Okay I've just thought of/remembered another one. 

 

The Star-tide Nexus. When it was first getting mentioned back in 8th, I do not remember it being clear what exactly it was, however I thought at the time, that it was finally a way for the Tau to spread out meaningfully out from their tiny little corner of the galaxy. I had assumed that it would work something like a Wormhole generator from the early day of Stellaris, where it would create a wormhole between itself an a distant point in the galaxy, but that it would be somewhat unreliable/inaccurate. 

 

Using this the Tau can send out colonisation forces to scattered points around the galaxy to establish new sept worlds and eventually build their own wormhole generators to allow regular contact with the core empire again, but due to the unreliability, contact would me sporadic at best, re-enforcements would be extremely difficult and ending up in a completely different system than planned would be very possible, leading to some very cool possibilities for frontier storylines and more divergent strains of the Greater Good philosophy.

Edited November 14 by ThaneOfTas

[Lathe Biosas]

One plot twist I would like would be that all the Primarchs suffer from a little Cottuption including Bobby G.

 

It would be fun to have Cawl ousted as a member of the Dark Mechanicum, for messing with hereteknology like AI and geneseed Manipulation.

 

Then you can twist the knife a little more in saying that everyone's favorite Primarch, not only knew about Cawl's proclivities, but actively sought him out and gave him the resources he needed to enact his plans.

[Captain Idaho]

54 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

One plot twist I would like would be that all the Primarchs suffer from a little Cottuption including Bobby G.

 

To be fair, the fluff going back as far back as 2nd edition (possibly before but Rogue Trader was before my time) was consistent in describing the temptations of Chaos evident in all the Primarchs' lives. 3rd edition put emphasis on the touch of chaos in many Primarchs, such as the fangs of Russ, the wings of Sanguinius as well as Magnus and his obvious cylopean status.

 

Recent editions and  years haven't really spoken in such ways, but then we go into the realms of the "what is canon" discussion on anything printed and not subsequently replaced.

Edited Wednesday at 06:42 PM by Captain Idaho

[SvenIronhand]

1 hour ago, Lathe Biosas said:

It would be fun to have Cawl ousted as a member of the Dark Mechanicum, for messing with hereteknology like AI and geneseed Manipulation.

 

Hereteks do not necessarily equal the 'True' Mechanicum. 

[Lathe Biosas]

I've had second thoughts.... 

 

All I want is this:

 

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I would change the Iron Hands Chapter lore back to its 3rd Edition state from Index Astartes.

[Jukkiz]

36 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I would change the Iron Hands Chapter lore back to its 3rd Edition state from Index Astartes.

To those in the dark about Iron Hands. 

could i get a little tid bit from both versions? 

[Ranulf]

Put Wulfen back in the box so there’s only two variants: 

 

Failed aspirants that succumbed during their test and now roam around Asaheim eating new recruits and local fauna.

 

Heresy-era Legionnaires from the 13th Company that have been hunting in the Eye of Terror for 10,000 years.

 

Sure, have all Space Wolves struggle with their bestial ferocity and self-control, but leave the Teen Wolf shenanigans for the two extreme examples above.