How to Improve Terminators! Suggestion and Ideas welcome!

[CastellanDeMolay]

On 11/23/2025 at 2:31 AM, jaxom said:

I like those ideas applied to Heavy Intercessors. Give them a 12" range and Torrent.

 Actually, I like this as an alternative to Rapid Fire. D3 shots per Attack on the weapon profile and auto-hit, but not ignores cover, within half-range. 

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

 Actually, I like this as an alternative to Rapid Fire. D3 shots per Attack on the weapon profile and auto-hit, but not ignores cover, within half-range. 

I'm a little Meh here, it feels like it would have Imperial Fists stepping on Salamander toes.   With that said Salamanders need a little love in this department too - though I'm not sure on the Heavy Intercessors.  An all SALAMANDER keyword Heavy Flamer (or Twin Linked Pyreblaster etc) Terminator Squad would be fun.  Truth be told that could go a long way to "improving" Terminators - a bespoke for each chapter Terminator Squad that then pairs with the normal ones so the normal ones just need a minor tweak.  Modernize the Ebon Keshigs, Crimson Paladins, and so on.  Just about every Legion had their Super Special Terminators.  Finish those up in HH, port/update them for 40K.  Minor tweak on cost-benefit for the normal ones.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

What new heavy weapon would you add to tactical terminators without stealing from any options from unique terminator units?

 

im thinking lascannon/las talon. I want to say autocannon, but I don’t know if that would violate my own rule or not lol.

[Tacitus]

It probably would - steal from Heretic Terminators (and 30K Loyalists).   I'd make something new to give them something new.  Maybe a Talon Canon that's three Las Talon Barrels that spin like an Assault Cannon.   Kind of have to avoid Plasma and Melta (Deahtwing and Eradicators), I'd avoid the Desolator stuff especially the Indirect Fire stuff because it doesn't fit and they already have Cyclones, which is why I'd stay away from any missiles like the Whirlwind which is also indirect again.   The Laser Destroyer has appeal, but its "too big" in the fluff and I don't want to step on the Lancer and its too "long range".  I know I said stay away from Melta, but the Melta Destroyer would actually fit pretty well here - short range, bigger than the Multi-Melta already carried by Devastators - but I'd still lean towards that sort of thing with the Lastalon instead.   I'd also consider a slightly scaled down Demolisher Cannon. 

 

So yeah, best I've got is to start with the Melta Destroyer - spin it like an Assault Canon, and make it lastalons. 

[jaxom]

On 12/2/2025 at 9:35 PM, Tacitus said:

So yeah, best I've got is to start with the Melta Destroyer - spin it like an Assault Canon, and make it lastalons. 

The las-fusil is a good scale to start from regarding what would look good on a Terminator.; so I guess a rotary las-fusil?

[Malakithe]

Not sure if its been said but Storm bolters in general need AP -1

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

The las-fusil is a good scale to start from regarding what would look good on a Terminator.; so I guess a rotary las-fusil?

Fusil/talon as long as it's las.  I think a three barreled Talon or a 5/6 Barreled Fusil more Assault Cannon'ish.  The problem with a 5/6 barreled Fusil is it absolutely kills the Assault Cannon.  A three barreled Talon still has Assault Cannon/Talon Cannon tradeoffs.  Plus I love the name Talon Canon.  Looks wise it doesn't really matter(much) if its a fusil or a talon,  I think 3 bigger barrels and triangular shap you see on the Melta Destroyer makes it distinctly different from the rounded minigun Assault Cannon.   Of course WYSIWYG is (currently) no longer a thing.   And Assault Cannons are just bad so this is more about future proofing than current meta. 

[Tacitus]

1 minute ago, Malakithe said:

Not sure if its been said but Storm bolters in general need AP -1

Oh yeah, we've mentioned a few times about the artificial penalties to First Borns as GW pivots from Squatting First Born to Hand Waving Primaris marines into First Born units.  I would expect to see Storm Bolters get 4 Attacks all the time, or AP -1 or both once they finally get rid of Tactical Squads and release a primarisized Devastator Squad.  I think the only reason they don't have them at -1 already is they started the edition as default First Born and are now default Primaris.   I think the original plan was to replace Devs with something like 6 different 'or squds (1 each for Melta, Las, Grav, Missile, Plas, and Bolter) - they did HINTS (or Aggressors depending on how much you stretch the metaphor) -for Bolter, Hellbasters for Plas, Eradicators for Melta, and Desolators for Missile.  They sort of did Eliminators for Las but that's even worse than Aggressors for Bolts as replacement so I don't think they're the Las replacement.  In theory they have at least two more new units to be able to squat Devs and do the Everyone Has One heavy support squads.  And I don't think they have the public opinion to do that AND squat the Devs on the people who still like them.  Maybe they already did the work to make a 5-10 Power Armor Las and Grav Squads.  but I doubt it. If they did I'd expect they'd have released it with the Assault Terminators anyway - BUT I think the most likely future event is they Primarisize Devs - Potentially but unlikely they lose some options - and that's the end of it.  After that Centurions are the last first born infantry unit still in jeopardy.   

 

I expect bespoke/chapter vehicles to get updated to the new base chassis.  I think the Impulsor was designed to replace the Whirlwind and Vindicator but won't anymore.  Bjorn gets into a Brutalis/Redemptor bespoke armed hybrid.  Furioso and Deatrhwing Dreads are obviously Brutalis.  the Ravenwing Speeders will jump to the Storm Speeder platform.  Baal Predators will become Baal Gladiators if they even stick around.  Aircraft all stay as they are because they have no interest in going anywhere near Aircraft right now and will not squat or update any of them.

[Evil Eye]

I could see a multi-melta being a good option for Terminators, actually. Makes sense that the guys whose whole niche is getting up close and taking out tough targets would have access to a weapon that works best at short range.

[jaxom]

 

56 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I could see a multi-melta being a good option for Terminators, actually. Makes sense that the guys whose whole niche is getting up close and taking out tough targets would have access to a weapon that works best at short range.

That got me thinking about shoulder mounted las-talon(s) to replace cyclone, and then arm mounted melta weapon as an alternative.

[Tacitus]

13 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I could see a multi-melta being a good option for Terminators, actually. Makes sense that the guys whose whole niche is getting up close and taking out tough targets would have access to a weapon that works best at short range.

Melta does fit that way, but MultiMeltas are already on Power Armor.  And Deathwing already have Plasma Cannons - so either way it steps on another unit - Giving them the tribarrel Melta Destroyer is possible, but still feels a little too much like Eradicators who are also big plodding slow pokes with the Melta.

[jaxom]

On 12/5/2025 at 9:37 PM, Tacitus said:

Melta does fit that way, but MultiMeltas are already on Power Armor.  And Deathwing already have Plasma Cannons - so either way it steps on another unit - Giving them the tribarrel Melta Destroyer is possible, but still feels a little too much like Eradicators who are also big plodding slow pokes with the Melta.

I think that's going to be a problem regardless of weapon they'd get. So may as well give them something that fits well with the Terminator modus operandi.

[HeadlessCross]

On 12/5/2025 at 6:37 PM, Tacitus said:

Melta does fit that way, but MultiMeltas are already on Power Armor.  And Deathwing already have Plasma Cannons - so either way it steps on another unit - Giving them the tribarrel Melta Destroyer is possible, but still feels a little too much like Eradicators who are also big plodding slow pokes with the Melta.

There's no real reason to keep Plasma Cannons specific to Deathwing. 

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

There's no real reason to keep Plasma Cannons specific to Deathwing. 

Yes there is.  The only reason they have them is because they're Deathwing.  And Plasma Cannons are already available on Power Armored marines.  Terminators as slow and purposeful armored exoskeleton super armor should have super heavies.  (Not SUPERHEAVY)  They should have things that (normal) power armored marines (generally) do not.

[HeadlessCross]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Yes there is.  The only reason they have them is because they're Deathwing.  And Plasma Cannons are already available on Power Armored marines.  Terminators as slow and purposeful armored exoskeleton super armor should have super heavies.  (Not SUPERHEAVY)  They should have things that (normal) power armored marines (generally) do not.

I honestly don't understand what you mean. 

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

I honestly don't understand what you mean. 

The only reason Deathwing has them is because theyre Dark Angels.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.  Salamanders have a thing for flamers and melta.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.   Extending Plasma Cannons to the rest of the Terminators is not a good idea.  In the first place it diminishes Deathwing Terminators, and in the second, it doesn't fit them.  They should be using heavier heavy weapons that mere power armored marines cannot.   They should not be - in general - carrying around the same heavies you see on Devastator Marines.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

The only reason Deathwing has them is because theyre Dark Angels.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.  Salamanders have a thing for flamers and melta.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.   Extending Plasma Cannons to the rest of the Terminators is not a good idea.  In the first place it diminishes Deathwing Terminators, and in the second, it doesn't fit them.  They should be using heavier heavy weapons that mere power armored marines cannot.   They should not be - in general - carrying around the same heavies you see on Devastator Marines.

I guess you should explain why regular power armored marines can’t use the heavy weapons terminators get access to already to get your point across. Especially since HH power armored marines can carry an assault cannon

assault cannon and heavy flamer especially.

 

my restriction on not stealing from other specialist termies is from a game play perspective and not lore.

Edited December 8 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

The only reason Deathwing has them is because theyre Dark Angels.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.  Salamanders have a thing for flamers and melta.  Dark Angels have a thing for Plasma.   Extending Plasma Cannons to the rest of the Terminators is not a good idea.  In the first place it diminishes Deathwing Terminators, and in the second, it doesn't fit them.  They should be using heavier heavy weapons that mere power armored marines cannot.   They should not be - in general - carrying around the same heavies you see on Devastator Marines.

So would you make Multi-Meltas exclusive to Salamanders Terminators?

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

So would you make Multi-Meltas exclusive to Salamanders Terminators?

I'd prefer not to.  I'd have preferred they make something bespoke plasma for Deathwing Terminators (and bespoke Melta) for Salamanders if they want to go that route.  Plus Terminators have Heavy Flamers.

[Tacitus]

7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I guess you should explain why regular power armored marines can’t use the heavy weapons terminators get access to already to get your point across. Especially since HH power armored marines can carry an assault cannon

assault cannon and heavy flamer especially.

 

my restriction on not stealing from other specialist termies is from a game play perspective and not lore.

HH is a different game.  And I don't like it there either, especially the Assault Cannon which shouldn't be in there at all because why don't Traitor Legions have Assault Cannons in 40K after having them during the Heresy?

 

From a game play perspective, the Blob that is x number of bases that put out Y number of shots for Z number of points gets thrown off.  A Terminator at nearly double the points needs nearly double the output.  Which doesn't happen if they use the same Heavies.

 

From a fluff standpoint why did they make the super slow and purposeful armor without making the super heavy gun? Terminators have long been closer to Dreadnoughts (The armor is even called Tactical Dreadnought Armor) than Power Armored marines for weapons. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

HH is a different game.  And I don't like it there either, especially the Assault Cannon which shouldn't be in there at all because why don't Traitor Legions have Assault Cannons in 40K after having them during the Heresy?

 

From a game play perspective, the Blob that is x number of bases that put out Y number of shots for Z number of points gets thrown off.  A Terminator at nearly double the points needs nearly double the output.  Which doesn't happen if they use the same Heavies.

 

From a fluff standpoint why did they make the super slow and purposeful armor without making the super heavy gun? Terminators have long been closer to Dreadnoughts (The armor is even called Tactical Dreadnought Armor) than Power Armored marines for weapons. 

Why not? Well because they’re still pretty small, and generally the heavier the weapon the bigger the ammo requirements tend to be, from bigger batteries for las weapons, to larger rounds for solid slug weapons so terminators generally don’t have much more ability to carry that ammo load, unlike dreadnoughts.

the armor protects more like a dreadnought is protected, that’s why it has that name

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

From a fluff standpoint why did they make the super slow and purposeful armor without making the super heavy gun? Terminators have long been closer to Dreadnoughts (The armor is even called Tactical Dreadnought Armor) than Power Armored marines for weapons. 

They did it so the Terminator could have a weapon in their off-hand. I'll use the Autocannon as an example because it's the easiest for to quikly grab pictures.

 

Guardsmen require a tripod

Marines require two-hands

Terminator requires one hand; and can participate in the close combat actions Terminators are truly meant for with its powerfist.

 

Could Terminators be given an even bigger gun, requiring two-hands? Sure, though it goes against their modus operandi and would basically make a Terminator version of an Eradicator.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

They did it so the Terminator could have a weapon in their off-hand. I'll use the Autocannon as an example because it's the easiest for to quikly grab pictures.

Spoiler

Guardsmen require a tripod

Marines require two-hands

 

Terminator requires one hand; and can participate in the close combat actions Terminators are truly meant for with its powerfist.

 

Could Terminators be given an even bigger gun, requiring two-hands? Sure, though it goes against their modus operandi and would basically make a Terminator version of an Eradicator.

That Autocannon is bigger.  And Legionaries and Terminators do not carry the same Autocannon.  Legionaries carry the Havoc Autocannon while Chaos Terminators carry the Reaper Autocannon

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

That Autocannon is bigger.  And Legionaries and Terminators do not carry the same Autocannon.  Legionaries carry the Havoc Autocannon while Chaos Terminators carry the Reaper Autocannon

I think I’m missing some nuance in your previous posts. For clarity, what would be an existing weapon that is appropriate for Terminators but not power armour? Would it be the Reaper autocannon?

[CastellanDeMolay]

8 hours ago, Tacitus said:

HH is a different game.  And I don't like it there either, especially the Assault Cannon which shouldn't be in there at all because why don't Traitor Legions have Assault Cannons in 40K after having them during the Heresy?

 

From a game play perspective, the Blob that is x number of bases that put out Y number of shots for Z number of points gets thrown off.  A Terminator at nearly double the points needs nearly double the output.  Which doesn't happen if they use the same Heavies.

 

From a fluff standpoint why did they make the super slow and purposeful armor without making the super heavy gun? Terminators have long been closer to Dreadnoughts (The armor is even called Tactical Dreadnought Armor) than Power Armored marines for weapons. 

I believe I can answer that first question: Because Assault Cannons destroy themselves. The fluff explains that the recoil they produce is so great that the barrels usually need to be replaced after every engagement. The logistical difficulties of being a traitor warband with no regular supply lines or consistent source of materielle  would make such weapons a liability. 

As was said above, I think the Terminator's ability to wield with only one hand the same heavy weapons that most Astartes require both arms to wield effectively is essentially the same thing as getting twice the shots, since it frees their off-hand to use a dedicated melee weapon too. Would giving Terminator ranged weapons the pistol keyword be going too far?