How to Improve Terminators! Suggestion and Ideas welcome!

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

That Autocannon is bigger.  And Legionaries and Terminators do not carry the same Autocannon.  Legionaries carry the Havoc Autocannon while Chaos Terminators carry the Reaper Autocannon

 

I know this is the Loyalist Terminator section, but I'm just gonna point at Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult Terminators here for a sec.

 

That is the same Soulreaper used by both units, stats and all. The only difference is that the SoT is onehanding the thing.

 

ETA:

To touch on the 2 handing Terminator thing, you'd need a pretty big weapon for a Terminator to 2 hand it.

They don't really have the lateral arm flexibility needed to do most "normal" 2 handed grips.

GW do cheat here, with the Saturnine guys having a massive 2 handed hammer as an option, but they don't ever show how that's actually wielded in 2 hands, rather it's being lent on with 1 hand.

 

To do a 2 handed Ranged weapon you'd need a pretty bloody big weapon and a reason to not then simply mount it to the top/shoulder of the Armour and have the Terminator 0 hand it with a wrist controller or something (looking at the LSM Missile Launcher Termie here...)

Edited Monday at 09:56 PM by Indy Techwisp
ETA more post.

[jaxom]

33 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

a reason to not then simply mount it to the top/shoulder of the Armour and have the Terminator 0 hand it with a wrist controller or something (looking at the LSM Missile Launcher Termie here...)

Excellent point. I do like the idea of a Terminator which looks like a mini Warlord Titan.

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, jaxom said:

I think I’m missing some nuance in your previous posts. For clarity, what would be an existing weapon that is appropriate for Terminators but not power armour? Would it be the Reaper autocannon?

For the Heretic Astartes yes, having two different autocannon one bigger than the other on terminators.  Aside from the DAEMONIC (and stealing from Obliterators) aspect Fleshmetal Guns on Heretic Terminators would be a home run.  I think the closest existing Loyalist Heavy weapon (Not already on Loyalist Terminators) that would fit for Terminators would be the Melta Destroyer from the Storm Speeder Hammer Strike.  I think it would be very easy (at the same time they update Storm Bolters to be Bolt Rifle instead of Bolter based, squat Tac Squads, Primarisize Devastators to put their ablative bodies on the Intercessor frame,etc) to hand wave the Assault Cannon into the (Not Heavy) Onslaught Gattling Cannon.  I think something SIMILAR TO (i.e. not Anti-Fly and such) the Icarus Storm Cannon on the nose of the Stormhawk Interceptor would be a good fit.  Use that as the basis for the Talon Cannon.

 

If this helps how about a range:

 

Terminator Heavy Weapons should be "heavier" in both output and appearance than the Devastators use.  It should be less than the main armament on a tank - i.e. the Demolisher Cannon as is from the Vindicator, or the Lancer Laser Destroyer (Or Heavy Laser Destroyer from teh Repulsor Executioner) is too big but the main armament from speeders is about the right "feel" on physical size and oomph.  Again you'd also have to filter for theme as well.  Even if they could carry an Earthquake Cannon, it doesn't fit a Terminator's role.

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I know this is the Loyalist Terminator section, but I'm just gonna point at Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult Terminators here for a sec.

 

That is the same Soulreaper used by both units, stats and all. The only difference is that the SoT is onehanding the thing.

Yeah I was just looking at the "Codex" Heretic Termies and realized Heretic Termies get kind of screwed even harder than the Loyalist ones.  For every 5 3 can have a power fist, 1 can have a chain fist.  Loyalist Termies can have five power fists or 5 chain fists.  Even the Sergeant.  Heck that (the fist) is his "default" option now.  Because you mentioned the 1KSons I checked them all.  The other "mono-god" heretics don't even have heavies on their Battle Line Power Armor "LegionariesAdjacent" squad.  And their Chaos Terminators (Or equivalent for the Deathguard) have the Reaper.  It looks like the Soulreaper is Tzeentch Fluffed like their Inferno Bolters and more akin to the Plasma Cannon than the Assault Cannon or Cyclone.

[Indy Techwisp]

39 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

It looks like the Soulreaper is Tzeentch Fluffed like their Inferno Bolters and more akin to the Plasma Cannon than the Assault Cannon or Cyclone.

 

I don't really see how it's more akin to the Plasma Cannon outside the AP I guess?

But that's standard for all the non-pistol TSons projectile weapons.

 

The gesturing at the Soulreaper was more to point out that sometimes it is literally the same weapon between the Termies and Infantry, rather than a Terminator specific version.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

I believe I can answer that first question: Because Assault Cannons destroy themselves. The fluff explains that the recoil they produce is so great that the barrels usually need to be replaced after every engagement. The logistical difficulties of being a traitor warband with no regular supply lines or consistent source of materielle  would make such weapons a liability. 

As was said above, I think the Terminator's ability to wield with only one hand the same heavy weapons that most Astartes require both arms to wield effectively is essentially the same thing as getting twice the shots, since it frees their off-hand to use a dedicated melee weapon too. Would giving Terminator ranged weapons the pistol keyword be going too far? 

Heretic Astartes still have Dark Mechanicus support - and they still replace their armor and other weapons over time.  Making the Heavy choices PISTOL would be going too far, and making the Storm Bolter PISTOL causes issues with the Cyclone Missile Launcher.  Probably better to give them a bespoke allowing Storm Bolters inside Engagement Range or something similar if you want to go that route. 

[HeadlessCross]

On 12/8/2025 at 5:06 AM, Tacitus said:

I'd prefer not to.  I'd have preferred they make something bespoke plasma for Deathwing Terminators (and bespoke Melta) for Salamanders if they want to go that route.  Plus Terminators have Heavy Flamers.

The problem is what, exactly, makes Deathwing unique outside being given a bespoke datasheet for the sake of getting it. Deathwing haven't done anything unqiue in decades rules wise. Loadout wise, yeah you can mix stuff but nobody did that because they specialized the squads to do a specific task. They get a Plasma Cannon, but why do just Dark Angels have it? There's 1000+ Chapters and you can't make a convincing argument Dark Angels are the only Chapter to have that. 

 

Deathwing is frankly no more unique than anyone else, even Traitor Legions, fielding an all Terminator force. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:30 PM by HeadlessCross

[Evil Eye]

48 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

They get a Plasma Cannon, but why do just Dark Angels have it?

Same reason Dark Angels don't get Carnifexes or Hammerhead Gunships.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

The problem is what, exactly, makes Deathwing unique outside being given a bespoke datasheet for the sake of getting it. Deathwing haven't done anything unqiue in decades rules wise. Loadout wise, yeah you can mix stuff but nobody did that because they specialized the squads to do a specific task. They get a Plasma Cannon, but why do just Dark Angels have it? There's 1000+ Chapters and you can't make a convincing argument Dark Angels are the only Chapter to have that. 

 

Deathwing is frankly no more unique than anyone else, even Traitor Legions, fielding an all Terminator force. 

 

Technically there is another faction with Plasma Cannon Terminators.

 

It's Deathwatch tho, so guess why they have them...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Same reason Dark Angels don't get Carnifexes or Hammerhead Gunships.

What? This isn’t remotely the same thing…

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

The problem is what, exactly, makes Deathwing unique outside being given a bespoke datasheet for the sake of getting it. Deathwing haven't done anything unqiue in decades rules wise. Loadout wise, yeah you can mix stuff but nobody did that because they specialized the squads to do a specific task. They get a Plasma Cannon, but why do just Dark Angels have it? There's 1000+ Chapters and you can't make a convincing argument Dark Angels are the only Chapter to have that. 

 

Deathwing is frankly no more unique than anyone else, even Traitor Legions, fielding an all Terminator force. 

I'd start by pointing out the "mixed loadouts" IS unique rules wise.  I'd also point out they currently have a different bespoke (Deahtwing) allowing them to ignore all modifiers to BS, WS, or the Hit Roll above and beyond the +1 to Hit vs OOM normal Terminators get as Fury of the First.  They have the Watcher In The Dark.  Prior to this edition they also had bespoke Lieutenants, Command Squads, and Command Characters which were all an offshoot of the Second Edition Theme where BA and UM/Codex could field their 1st Company in Power Armor veteran squads, while the Dark Angels as being the "First" had so many Terminator squads, and ancient plasma etc weapons they could field them on a full Terminator Company.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

What? This isn’t remotely the same thing…

I think that was a sarcastic way of saying Dark Angels get Dark Angels Deathwing Terminators Squads because that's what makes them Dark Angels while Carnifexes are what make Nids Nids, and Hammerheads make Tau Tau. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Technically there is another faction with Plasma Cannon Terminators.

 

It's Deathwatch tho, so guess why they have them...

Which means Dark Angels aren't the only ones with that tech by default. 

[Orange Knight]

Rejoice brothers.

For a brave step has been taken in the right direction.

 

Assault Terminators now hit on 3+ with their Thunder Hammers.

If you pick the claws you now get 6 attacks.

And the opponent has to test for Battleshock every fight phase, not just the 1st.

 

Datasheet below:

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

8 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Rejoice brothers.

For a brave step has been taken in the right direction.

 

Assault Terminators now hit on 3+ with their Thunder Hammers.

If you pick the claws you now get 6 attacks.

And the opponent has to test for Battleshock every fight phase, not just the 1st.

 

Datasheet below:

 

 

 

Can I bother you to check if those stat changes were duplicated on the Deathwatch Terminators as well?

[Orange Knight]

21 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Can I bother you to check if those stat changes were duplicated on the Deathwatch Terminators as well?

 

It doesn't look that way, as of yet.

[Tacitus]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Rejoice brothers.

For a brave step has been taken in the right direction.

Be interesting if that fixes or worsens the LC outperforming Thunderhammers math from earlier. 

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Be interesting if that fixes or worsens the LC outperforming Thunderhammers math from earlier. 

 

 

Thunderhammers are looking good. Lightning Claws are not so good, but maybe take +1 to Wound buff better.

[Tacitus]

LC's gained a full wound vs T4 3+ 2W, TH gained a wound and a half or so.  Same vs the first T6 I assume is T5.  Strangely LC went DOWN vs T5 4+ 2W -1tWr?   They were a flat 5, now they're 4.6? While the TH went from 3.9 to 5.1  - that T9 Armiger blockwent from 6.2LC/5.3TH to 7.4LC/7.1 TH.  So its still there, but close to half smaller than it was.   I look at that T5 4+ 2W -1tWr though and I wonder if you have a typo in your formulas because adding an attack shouldn't make the totals go down.

[HeadlessCross]

13 hours ago, Tacitus said:

LC's gained a full wound vs T4 3+ 2W, TH gained a wound and a half or so.  Same vs the first T6 I assume is T5.  Strangely LC went DOWN vs T5 4+ 2W -1tWr?   They were a flat 5, now they're 4.6? While the TH went from 3.9 to 5.1  - that T9 Armiger blockwent from 6.2LC/5.3TH to 7.4LC/7.1 TH.  So its still there, but close to half smaller than it was.   I look at that T5 4+ 2W -1tWr though and I wonder if you have a typo in your formulas because adding an attack shouldn't make the totals go down.

Maybe they accidentally forgot to add TL?

[jaxom]

Yeah, I’ll check the code when I get home.

[jaxom]

19 hours ago, Tacitus said:

 I look at that T5 4+ 2W -1tWr though and I wonder if you have a typo in your formulas because adding an attack shouldn't make the totals go down.

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Maybe they accidentally forgot to add TL?

 

I went through it and turns out I forgot the -1 to wound in the original. So 5A should be 3.9 and 6A is 4.6.