Rumour Engine- 21st October

[Jukkiz]

There was skull one also in Greatest SM kit ever

[TheMawr]

1 hour ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

The ones I can see on Primaris Marines don't come across "exact" to me. Similar, obviously, but the one in this rumour engine has much of metal visible going between the side and middle. 

 

 

someone on another forum posted a whole bunch of them; 

 

 

 

Bladeguard especially is very similar, except for the obvious difference of the bladeshape at the bottom. They come in all shapes and sizes on almost every spacemarine thats not baseline, but more importantly than the similarity ( or lack of it to some people ) to all of that is another element.

 

While some fantasy models ( though especially pre-AoS.) also have similar symbology they seem to be much more aesthic there. There is little reason to design a miniature wich has one of those in its hands, not among the faction sporting the symbols nor among their enemies ( chaos in fantasy isnt the other side of the same coin they are in 40k ).. in 40k however there is symbological relevance to that, like for example a heretic who just ripped it off a defeated loyalist in acts of deviance.

From a designer pov there is a lot more reasons to design this as we see in 40k (and 30k) than there is to do this in AoS/TOW.

 

Though all of that said, my first thought when seeing this was its a santa character in the process of decorating a christmas tree with warhammer symbols.

 

Also, there is an element in the RE that does feel more fantasy, the metallic painted dangly bit between the "fur" and the hand. It might be jewelry or more mechanical bits that look like jewelry from the perspective.. but in combination with the fur it almost looks like decoration in a beard ( like dwarves have.) however.. its not in the fur, its behind it.. the whole perspective could be more as if we are looking over the shoulder here, not a frontview shot.

[DemonGSides]

A brief and incomplete history of "Cross with Skull on it circa Primaris era" of 40k.

 

New Calgar (Little long on the bottom, mostly the same thing though)

 

New Victrix bannerman (Pretty much exact)

 

Company Heroes champion (Pretty much the same)

 

Terminator Sgt from Leviathan (Almost the same, but with oath paper attachment)

 

Primaris Captain 

 

Castus (The slightly different one similar to Calgar's new one)

 

Bladeguard Vet version

 

A different Primaris Captain

 

 

As far as firstborn, there was more examples of the Bejeweled Belt Buckle style;  I've only grabbed one example but there's a couple of older models featuring this.

 

Skulls are obviously everywhere in GW products, but this one seems pretty spot on with the Primaris 

 

Edited October 22 by DemonGSides

[TheMawr]

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

A brief and incomplete history of "Cross with Skull on it circa Primaris era" of 40k.

 

New Calgar (Little long on the bottom, almost exactly the same otherwise)

 

New Victrix bannerman (Pretty much exact)

 

Company Heroes champion (Pretty much the same)

 

Terminator Sgt from Leviathan (Almost the same, but with oath paper attachment)

 

Primaris Captain 

 

Castus (The slightly different one similar to Calgar's new one)

 

Bladeguard Vet version

 

A different Primaris Captain

 

 

As far as firstborn, there was more examples of the Bejeweled Belt Buckle style;  I've only grabbed one example but there's a couple of older models featuring this.

 

Skulls are obviously everywhere in GW products, but this one seems pretty spot on with the Primaris 

 

 

Having the skull in the square cross is as old as spacemarines are though, its not necessarily a primaris thing, not even those hanging from ropes or chains ;

 

 

While indeed the jewel instead of the skull was more common ( as are the same shape with skull on kneepads, belt buckles etc. ) I think that has less to do with primaris or not, and more with limitations..

Wich they circumvented in the early days by just making the thing absurdly large :

 

Another reason why it seems ( and maybe is ) more predominant on primaris is two much simpler facts, there is better and more pictures available of them at one side, and I didnt do the math.. but I think there have been more primaris veteran releases ( including LE ) than there had been veteran spacemarine releases in the years before primaris.

 

[gideon stargreave]

So it’s clearly a Rosarius. 
 

my deepest wish- goge vandire 

[Craig]

Definitely a 30k famous bile before all his hair fell out.

[DemonGSides]

8 hours ago, TheMawr said:

 

 

Having the skull in the square cross is as old as spacemarines are though, its not necessarily a primaris thing, not even those hanging from ropes or chains ;

 

 

While indeed the jewel instead of the skull was more common ( as are the same shape with skull on kneepads, belt buckles etc. ) I think that has less to do with primaris or not, and more with limitations..

Wich they circumvented in the early days by just making the thing absurdly large :

 

Another reason why it seems ( and maybe is ) more predominant on primaris is two much simpler facts, there is better and more pictures available of them at one side, and I didnt do the math.. but I think there have been more primaris veteran releases ( including LE ) than there had been veteran spacemarine releases in the years before primaris.

 

My post wasn't an exploration of any real Firstborn models because I stopped looking at mini's that came out around 7th, so I'm sure there's a rich history of it even older, I just wanted to reiterate to some of the other posters that it is FIRMLY a 40k icon and most likely not something from WHF, which definitely uses a lot of skulls and often crosses, but that that particular rosary/icon or whatever it's called is absolutely part of modern 40k design paradigm.

Edited October 22 by DemonGSides

[apologist]

It's the Crux Terminatus, isn't it? The symbol of veterancy in a Space Marine Chapter.

That's certainly what I always thought these were. I think it's noted somewhere that the exact form varies.

 

Either way, I absolutely agree that it's one of these amulets clutched in a hand – and the furry bit suggests it's been taken as a trophy by a Renegade Chaos Marine.

[Joe]

To be fair, it's also... the Imperial Cross, from WHFB / TOW. The icon is re-used across both settings.

 

Given the beard and braid and such, it could just as easily be a new Marauder character for TOW. Which would track given they've just shown off updated infantry / cavalry.

[DemonGSides]

3 hours ago, Joe said:

To be fair, it's also... the Imperial Cross, from WHFB / TOW. The icon is re-used across both settings.

 

Given the beard and braid and such, it could just as easily be a new Marauder character for TOW. Which would track given they've just shown off updated infantry / cavalry.

 

The article linked in the OP isn't to the Rumor Engine, the Rumor engine SPECIFICALLY calls out that it's a from 40k;

 

Quote

It’s got a skull on it, but in the grim darkness of the far future the toothpaste probably has skulls on it too, so that’s not a lot to go on.

 

I know I know, WHC so that's hardly definitive considering they screw up all the time, but still.  Everything is screaming 40k, whether or not skulls and crosses show up in WHF (Not arguing that they don't), but I don't know enough about WHF outside of TWWH3 and it's not as obvious there, so if you have some solid examples of modern mini's rocking something similar to the RE image, post em so we can see.

Edited October 22 by DemonGSides

[Marshal Reinhard]

The hand is very clearly a power armored one. The rim around the wrist is also very typically power armor.

 

I just don't see why the WHF notion is being entertained. At all.

Edited October 22 by Marshal Reinhard

[Dark Shepherd]

Leftfield but a non heretic Chaplain type character holding it? Furry bit SW or RG?

 

More likely heretic though

[gideon stargreave]

Again it’s a rosarius. 
Chaplains have them. So do some other important imperial people

 

as to who is holding it. Someone with a beard or a fur pelt. 

 

 

Edited October 24 by gideon stargreave

[Borbarad]

On 10/21/2025 at 2:01 PM, ZeroWolf said:

 

 

 

 

Initially i thought this was a massive beard on the left  Seems to be more like a fur collar or something.

[Toxichobbit]

21 hours ago, gideon stargreave said:

Again it’s a rosarius. 
Chaplains have them. So do some other important imperial people

 

as to who is holding it. Someone with a beard or a fur pelt. 

 

 

 

No, it's almost certainly terminator honours. A single photo from 3rd party merch proves nothing in the face of three decades of codexes and lore books labelling them as terminator honours, not to mention dozens if not hundreds of non-Chaplain Marines wearing them. If it is a rosarius, then why is it worn by Captains, Lieutenants, Sergeants, various Veterans and Terminators dating back to Rogue Trader in the late 80's, none of whom have any connection to a rosarius?

There is a slim chance that it's a rosarius that's almost identical to terminator honours, as that has happened occasionally. But 99% of the time that icon is terminator honours. and unless there's another rumour engine/model reveal showing a dead Chaplain that it's been taken from, then it's going to be terminator honours this time too. Even if it is a dead Chaplain, then it's quite likely to be terminator honours as Chaplains regularly wear them and for some reason, GW hasn't bothered modelling rosarius on Chaplains in a long time.

 

As an aside, the version with the elongated bottom part of the cross that is shown in some of the pictures above is neither terminator honours nor a rosarius, it's an honour badge used by Indomitus Crusade veterans. It's on all (I think) of the models from Indomitus, for example on the left vambraces of the Assault Intercessors. It's also on some transfer sheets (though I can't remember if GW bothered to label it there).

[TheMawr]

I know almost nothing about the lore there, and what I know from spacemarines I know from lexicanum only... but I thought terminator honors are those similar shapes that can be found on actual terminators shoulderpads, and the fact that similar crosses exists in all shapes and sizes is a similar "lore situation" of eldar having many decorative gemstones, but not every gemstone is a spirit stone. Likewise, not every cross is terminator honours or a rosarius.

 

The last couple of chaplains did have rosariuses though;

Hanging from his neck.

 

Tied to his holster

 

The bike chaplain has one in his left hand hanging from the bike-handle ( visible in the webstore if you rotate to the leftside, but all other pictures always focus on other angles.)

 

The  chaplain miniature from Indomitus has one of those blade shaped cruxes like the other bladeguard, but his is on beads so I thought it was a rosarius but maybe not.

There is a more typical one hanging from the bladeguard ancient's standard though.

 

The first primaris chaplain has a rosarius thats shaped like the aquila on his left hand like the Emperors champion has ( but obscured from view from the usual angle, its visible from the left side view.) or is that not a rosarius ?

 

And the jumppack chaplain seems to have a rosarius on his chest, but because he is a bloodangels model the beads are painted red, making it appear as ropes. (at least I think its a rosarius )

 

Interestingly, both Grimaldus and the new chaplain'ish character for Black templars, those you'd expect to be more pious, neither have a rosarius... 

Ondeed a lot of non-chaplain kits have a similar cross in one form or another, and the sternguard veteran kit has every form ( shoulder, knee, belt and chest engraved.. as well as hanging type like the RE and one that goes on the backpack), there seems to be some sort of patterning with who has the shape where.. Captains ( named and generic ) almost always have one near the chest connected by rope or chain, shrike has his hanging from his belt though.

Spoiler

 

 

 

But Sammaels little cross hangs from beads as well.

 

When inspecting all those images, it raises more questions than answers to the exact specifics on that little cross thats similar to the RE ( and not its engraved variants that are more common ) but I think the rumor engine is most consistent with those the captains have. Chaplains rosariuses too.. but those seem to be too small to fill a hand like the rumor engine does, but those the captains have do properly fill a hand like that.

 

 

 

 

[Nephaston]

I was under the impression that a Rosarius can take many forms, with the main difference to any other trinkets and badges being that the Rosarius is tethered to Rosaries.

 

For example

 

Default chaplain has an Aquila.

 

Blood Angels Jump Chaplain has an imperial cross

 

Honoured of the chapter chaplain has a Indomitus Crusade campaign badge

 

Bike Chaplain has an imperial cross and a key (presumably it's only the former while the key is for the lock on his book)

 

Terminator chaplain has a reliquiary

 

Curiously, following my logic, the Judiciar would also qualify and I'm not actualy sure if the Rosarius is more of an OK from the ecclesiarchy that a marine may be trained to become a chaplain or an affirmation that training is concluded and the trainee may graduate.

 

Seeing as how lose the ties chapters have to the other institutions I'd probably handwave it as a general OK while the chapter does all of the actual work, similar how we have a bunch of techmarine neophytes nominally wearing the red of mars, but finalizing their training in the specifics of the chapter as gunner and drivers.

[TheMawr]

arent the white scars the only ones where the chapter master doesnt has a miniature ? Maybe huron blackhearts ends up killing jubal and one of his crew holds his whatever-honors over his corpse  ( I dont think this one is huron blackheart himself.) .. might even be perfectly timed narrative book with the seperate release of Suboden, just a khan in his combat patrol, chapter master in his seperate release alongside huron&co in a war zone : Chogoris book this december/januari ?

[TheMawr]

@nephaston 

 

Rosaries are what I called beads in my post ?

I didnt know their name, but every rosarius Ive come across irl has beads, so I always assumed not the little medal determines whether something is a rosarius or not, but the fact its connected to beads ( strangely, I have found 3 randomly on the streets.. the last one 2 weeks ago XD but they are very very different apart from the beads element. )

[Nephaston]

5 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

@nephaston 

 

Rosaries are what I called beads in my post ?

I didnt know their name, but every rosarius Ive come across irl has beads, so I always assumed not the little medal determines whether something is a rosarius or not, but the fact its connected to beads ( strangely, I have found 3 randomly on the streets.. the last one 2 weeks ago XD but they are very very different apart from the beads element. )

 

Rosary beads yeah, though usually strung on a string and made of all kinds of materials, they can also serve as chain links by having the chain screwed into it, or if no material is otherwise available, simbly be a series of knots in a string. In real life it is basically used to tally prayers and keep track of the many different ones during prayer, which is why some are either arranged in set with gaps or noticeably larger beads between them.

 

Either way the emblem in the rumour engine could come from any character as all we see is the last remains of string.

[Tastyfish]

On 10/22/2025 at 8:21 PM, Marshal Reinhard said:

The hand is very clearly a power armored one. The rim around the wrist is also very typically power armor.

 

I just don't see why the WHF notion is being entertained. At all.

 

I think the argument for it being a chaos warrior is partly down to the plaited beard/hair and the furs, but also that the inside of the arm seems very flat compared to most power armour, and whilst it could be excessive edge highlighting it almost looks like the rim around the wrist could be a leather strap.

 

The flat inside with a rounded outside, alongside armoured fingers also look quite similar to the inside of this chaos warriors arm.

Especially if you take into account the darker core of the 'rim' compared to the lighter metal of the inside of the gauntlet. 

 

Edited October 25 by Tastyfish

[gideon stargreave]

You know, I’d never considered the beads to be the rosarius part before. I stand corrected. That said, the crux terminatus is usually presented as a curved cross (most often curved at the edges too)

[Indy Techwisp]

8 hours ago, TheMawr said:

arent the white scars the only ones where the chapter master doesnt has a miniature ? Maybe huron blackhearts ends up killing jubal and one of his crew holds his whatever-honors over his corpse  ( I dont think this one is huron blackheart himself.) .. might even be perfectly timed narrative book with the seperate release of Suboden, just a khan in his combat patrol, chapter master in his seperate release alongside huron&co in a war zone : Chogoris book this december/januari ?

 

Jubal Khan is just barely not injured enough for internment in a Dreadnaught, but is too injured to really participate on the battlefield anymore, instead acting as a rear line commander/tactician.

The 2 White Scars characters we have are the captains of 1st and 3rd company iirc.

[Toxichobbit]

A rosary is the beads used IRL to help with prayer, as Nephaston explained. A Rosarius is a 40k invented word for an amulet used by members of the Adeptus Ministorum and Astartes Chaplains to house conversion fields. It is also used in prayer, at least by the Sororitas - I'm not sure if there's any examples of Chaplains using it that way. The word is obviously based on the IRL word "rosary".

 

I understand there is confusion in the community as to what exactly is what, so I'll see if I can help. I do have source material to back all of this up, but I am lazy and don't want to have to take photos, find readers for old file formats etc. If someone wants proof for something specific let me know.

 

Only Astartes Chaplains, Ecclesiarchy Priests (Preachers, Missionaries & Confessors, maybe other ranks) and high-ranking Sororitas are gifted with a Rosarius. It's as much a badge of office as it is a religious icon and energy shield generator. Astartes Captains, Chapter Masters, Librarians, Lieutenants, Sergeants, Veterans (both in and out of Terminator armour) and rank & file Sororitas are not gifted a Rosarius.

 

Rosarius do not have a set form. I think in the Fantasy Flight RPGs they were described as being able to be rings and amulets, but I'd need to go back and check. On the minatures, they're almost always an amulet (or just have no visible representation).

 

The Crux Terminatus and Terminator Honours are the same thing and are represented multiple ways. It's usually (but not always) called the Crux Terminatus when it's mounted on the left shoulder of a Terminator suit, and it's usually (but not always) called Terminator Honours when it's in it's amulet form (the same amulet as the rumour engine image). It can also appear on belt buckles, jump pack harnesses, knee pads and is also used as a squad marking by Veteran squads in power armour, where it's painted on the right shoulder pad. Sometimes it's just painted or sculpted in random places on Astartes armour. It's been an honour badge that Astartes are permitted to use once they have completed Terminator armour training since Rogue Trader, though the 10th edition Space Marine Codex does muddy the waters a bit as it lists it as just the "Crux" and a symbol of veterancy, rather than a specific icon for Terminator trained Marines. Traditionally, all veterans will have training in Terminator armour, though I'm not sure that's still the case given we have Veteran squads in all companies now. It's a bit more ambiguous and I don't know if GW have ever specified if veterans from other Companies have Terminator training like all the veterans in the 1st Company have. There are variants of it too - higher ranking marines in Terminator armour tend to have a more ornate Crux, often with gems. Terminator Sergeants tend to have a version with the bottom beam is longer, similar to the Indomitus Crusade veteran badge. And Space Wolves often use wolf skulls instead of human skulls. In 3rd edition they even had rules - Terminator Honours was a piece of wargear you could give to Sergeants and characters that gave them +1 attack and Terminator armour had them built in.

 

Astartes of Sergeant and above rank as well as veterans may have these amulets sculpted on the model, either with a skull or a gem in the middle. That's because they are not Rosarius (if they were, then they wouldn't have them because they're not Chaplains). They are Terminator Honours (labelled as such in multiple sources, Codices, Insignium Astartes & even I think some old instructions for building Marine kits). You can see them on Marines of all ranks just by browsing the various Space Marine ranges on GW's webstore. I can understand the confusion here as GW over the years have been loose with their descriptions and often just given Chaplains Terminator Honours  amulets, but nothing else that could resemble a Rosarius.

 

All Ecclesiarchy Preachers, Missionaries and Confessors all have Rosarius. As do Sororitas Canoness (and probably some other ranks). None of them have the cross amules with the gem or skull in the middle. If those amulets were Rosarius, then you'd see them on Ecclesiarchy models. Again, you can just go on GW's webstore to verify this.

 

All Sororitas have those beads, usually with a Minstorum icon attached. All Sororitas do not have a Rosarius. So the beads are not a Rosarius either. I think they're referred to as prayer beads or a rosary. Either way, they're exactly the same as an IRL Rosary - an icon of faith but without the technology or rank that comes with a Rosarius.

 

So basically, a Rosarius is whatever you want it to be. It can be an amulet shaped like Terminator Honours if you want, it can be shaped like an aquila, or a winged skull, or a circular cross, or a diagonal cross, or a Chapter symbol, or an Adeptus Ministorum symbol, or a .... bell?. These are all examples from sculpts over the years for models that have a Rosarius. But that doesn't mean that those shapes are automatically a Rosarius. Terminator Honours are still Terminator Honours, even if some Rosarius are shaped like them. Ministorum icons are still Ministorum icons, even if some Rosarius are shaped like them. In other words, unless you know the icon in question is definitively part of a model that would be equipped with a Rosarius, then there is zero evidence that it's a Rosarius (as is the case with this rumour engine). And even if it's part of a model with a Rosasrius, it's not definitive proof that it is a Rosarius (as is the case with Asmodai above, where a poster has mis-identified the Terminator Honours at his waist as a Rosarius - his actual Rosarius is the Dark Angel icon hanging about his neck  - yes, I have a source for that).

 

So what we can definitely say about the rumour engine is that it is Terminator Honours, as there's decades of lore and proof that amulets shaped like that are Terminator Honours and those amulets only appear on models that could have been awarded Terminator Honours. What we can't say is whether it is a Rosarius or not. It could be, but without more context we don't know.

 

 

 

 

[Laurence]

Interrogator Chaplains add black pearls to their rosarius for each [REDACTED] that they [REDACTED], so the string of beads is the main defining feature, with the amulet being just where the conversion field is stored (since it'd have to be bigger than a bead).

Edited October 25 by Laurence