500 Worlds Battalion: Necrons

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Did someone let Matt Ward make decisions again?

[Lathe Biosas]

3 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

LET'S GO. TIME FOR MORE ULTRAMARINES 

 

 

ITS ABOUT TIME THE BEST CHAPTER GETS MORE

 

_{i only say that semi ironically. I'm excited for the narrative/model possibilities.} 

 

 

 

No reason to try to resist the inevitable any longer. Everything is going to based on Ultramar.  Maybe it's time to give in and paint my Astra Militarum units blue.

 

Now where did I put that Lt. Titus model I swore I'd never put together?

[Indy Techwisp]

So 10th edition, bringing that long awaited massive shake up where the Imperium has to face off against a foe they can't just Outnumber and Human Wave to death, had exactly half a year focusing on that before we went back to 9th's plot about Necrons, then went to Armageddon for seemingly no reason and is now going to wrap up by releasing Matt Ward's Magnum Opus Marines on us because Ultramarines apparently needed even more stuff.

 

-_-

I guess there's a sliver of hope that the T'au might have something decent happen in this, since they neighbour Ultramar...

[Nephaston]

And just like that, almost a decade of slowly becoming less hated has evaporated. Can't wait for all the verbal abuse veiled as "banter".

 

I wonder if there's any truth to Calgar and posse being released ahead because he got leaked, might've been better if they were the ending capstone of 500 Worlds.

[TheMawr]

I see a lot of speculation about battalions being related to a 40k spearhead. But isn't combat patrol already "exactly" that ? I dont really know either, what in a nutshell is so different between the two ?

 

Personally I still lean into a possibly planetary empires style expansion ( I previously miscalled it planetstrike) as just as boarding actions fit the "many spacehulks" theme, a planetary empires like game mode fits a "many worlds" theme.

Though I don't know how battalions play into that. Especially not if one faction has one battalion as the leak implies ( it's called battalion Necrons, not battalion Destroyer Cult.. if it makes any sense what I mean here.)

Maybe its a very limited gamemode.. destroyer Cult interaction with a world is annihilation, much less nuanced than other necrons. With each faction having a predefined objective from a small pool ( annihilation: necron, tyranids, world eaters, deathguard.. annexation : GSC, Tau, CSM... liberation : spacemarines etc etc ) Though I'm probably thinking way too far ahead here.

 

 

[Jukkiz]

5 hours ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

Not sure if this adds anything, but this is 100% real, cannot go into detail but the leak is real. 

you´ve yet to be wrong, just vague enough to not tell outright that you have mole inside. 

Too many times proved that you´re right to not be coincidence

[01RTB01]

29 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

I see a lot of speculation about battalions being related to a 40k spearhead. But isn't combat patrol already "exactly" that ? I dont really know either, what in a nutshell is so different between the two ?

 

 

 

 

 

Combat patrol (CP)- 40k's half hearted attempt at small games using a solitary box's contents.

 

Spearhead - AoS's version of small games using a solitary box's contents, however, it's much more developed than combat patrol. There's specific boards and 2 supplements with cards and boards for it.

 

Spearhead is seen as a genuinely viable format for games and I've played spearhead and CP. Spearhead has clearly had love and development time put into it. Combat patrol was neglected which along with the myriad of dull boxes means that CP doesn't really get played. Spearhead boxes tend to have more in than CP boxes and a nice variety of 'stuff'.

 

Hopefully for 11th Ed they continue the uptrend in more interesting boxes and develop the game format, but time will tell.

[OttoVonAwesome]

4 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

LET'S GO. TIME FOR MORE ULTRAMARINES 

 

 

ITS ABOUT TIME THE BEST CHAPTER GETS MORE

 

_{i only say that semi ironically. I'm excited for the narrative/model possibilities.} 

You mean gets back the units they had before but were in Legends hell. Yeah it is about f'ing time.

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, TheMawr said:

I see a lot of speculation about battalions being related to a 40k spearhead. But isn't combat patrol already "exactly" that ? I dont really know either, what in a nutshell is so different between the two ?

 

To be mildly flippant, Spearhead works as a game, Combat Patrol doesn't.

 

I don't really know how spearhead works/differs from mainline AoS because I don't play it, but from second hand comments the main difference is they thought through the spearhead boxes for the game from the get go, rather than mostly inheriting collecting boxes without a clear vision of what a combat patrol game should look like.

 

Edit - serves me right for leaving the tab open and coming back to it later - 01RTB01 already posted a better breakdown of the same point...

Edited yesterday at 06:53 PM by Cleon

[Subtleknife]

6 hours ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

Not sure if this adds anything, but this is 100% real, cannot go into detail but the leak is real. 

The more ultramarines part specifically being real? 

 

That is good news if correct.

6 hours ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

Not sure if this adds anything, but this is 100% real, cannot go into detail but the leak is real. 

The more ultramarines part specifically being real about new unitor the necron box?

 

If there are more ultramarine units that is so good.

[Subtleknife]

6 hours ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

Not sure if this adds anything, but this is 100% real, cannot go into detail but the leak is real. 

The more ultramarines part specifically or the necron box image?

 

If there are more ultramarine units that is so good.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:00 PM by Subtleknife

[Arkley]

I can see Cassius getting a return... But TWV? Does the game these days feature we hate this Army type units anymore? I admit I am very much out of the loop with rules...

 

I mean do BA still hate the Talon of Horus? I find the possible inclusion of TWV odd for the game.

[01RTB01]

39 minutes ago, Cleon said:

To be mildly flippant, Spearhead works as a game, Combat Patrol doesn't.

 

I don't really know how spearhead works/differs from mainline AoS because I don't play it, but from second hand comments the main difference is they thought through the spearhead boxes for the game from the get go, rather than mostly inheriting collecting boxes without a clear vision of what a combat patrol game should look like.

 

Edit - serves me right for leaving the tab open and coming back to it later - 01RTB01 already posted a better breakdown of the same point...

 

You were more succinct than I was lol.

 

Spearhead is AoS lite in that it cuts a chunk of the "additional/ optional" parts of the game. It also has self contained objectives/ strat equivalents. Even the units have slightly different rules to 'full' AoS as part of the balancing of it. 

I'm assuming with Friday's preview they'll announce it which is why Valrak is comfortable in saying yes but no details yet. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Gee-Dubbs is milking the popularity of the SM2 video game. No doubt about it. So we will be sailing into the Ultramarines utopia until SM3 comes around. And if this game enraptures the minds of the casual audience too then you better get comfortable of making your bed in smurf village cuz you won´t be receiving anything else.

[01RTB01]

I'm assuming we'll see confirmation of the 500 worlds on Friday as Valrak has confirmed but not willing to share more at this stage. 

[Orange Knight]

3 hours ago, Nephaston said:

And just like that, almost a decade of slowly becoming less hated has evaporated. Can't wait for all the verbal abuse veiled as "banter".

 

 

I think people are over reacting. 

 

The Ultramarines are very well represented in the lore but I'm willing to bet that their unique range won't come close to what the Wolves, Dark Angels or Black Templars have.

 

We have to remember that after Space Marine 2 the chapter is more popular than ever, and I'm sure many potential new hobbyists will be drawn to them.

Heck, I'm tempted to pick up some models!

[darkhorse0607]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I think people are over reacting. 

 

The Ultramarines are very well represented in the lore but I'm willing to bet that their unique range won't come close to what the Wolves, Dark Angels or Black Templars have.

 

We have to remember that after Space Marine 2 the chapter is more popular than ever, and I'm sure many potential new hobbyists will be drawn to them.

Heck, I'm tempted to pick up some models!

 

I still think its more people seeing blue marines on genrric marine boxes and assuming they're Ultramarines, so in that logic the Ultramarines range is as vast as the 500 worlds 

 

Realistically, other than Ventris as a Black Library thing (iirc) Ultramarines hadn't gotten anything since Calgarmk1 and Tigirius, with Guilliman before that, other than Titus. Meanwhile they lost the Honor Guard, Tyrannic War Veterans, Telion, Chronos, and Cassius. So while yeah, the newer releases starts bringing them up to speed, it doesn't even replace everything they lost 

 

Maybe I'm just being too bitter about it, but as someone who's been waiting for more Ultramarines stuff for years now, its getting old to keep seeing "more Ultramarines gah" 

 

As for the representation in the lore though, yeah I get it, I wish other chapters got more. 

 

Blood Angel fans are excluded from my rant. You all have suffered enough 

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

I still think its more people seeing blue marines on genrric marine boxes and assuming they're Ultramarines, so in that logic the Ultramarines range is as vast as the 500 worlds 

 

Realistically, other than Ventris as a Black Library thing (iirc) Ultramarines hadn't gotten anything since Calgarmk1 and Tigirius, with Guilliman before that, other than Titus. Meanwhile they lost the Honor Guard, Tyrannic War Veterans, Telion, Chronos, and Cassius. So while yeah, the newer releases starts bringing them up to speed, it doesn't even replace everything they lost 

 

Maybe I'm just being too bitter about it, but as someone who's been waiting for more Ultramarines stuff for years now, its getting old to keep seeing "more Ultramarines gah" 

 

As for the representation in the lore though, yeah I get it, I wish other chapters got more. 

 

Blood Angel fans are excluded from my rant. You all have suffered enough 

I think you're right, in a world of being hammered with seemingly endless marine releases, when special marine release wave 9 is the "generic blue ones" it can seem a bit much.

[Tastyfish]

4 hours ago, Cleon said:

To be mildly flippant, Spearhead works as a game, Combat Patrol doesn't.

 

I don't really know how spearhead works/differs from mainline AoS because I don't play it, but from second hand comments the main difference is they thought through the spearhead boxes for the game from the get go, rather than mostly inheriting collecting boxes without a clear vision of what a combat patrol game should look like.

 

Edit - serves me right for leaving the tab open and coming back to it later - 01RTB01 already posted a better breakdown of the same point...

 

I think a lot of that comes down to 40K having a Toughness mechanic and wounds for individual models whilst AoS doesn't. Lascannon in 40K might kill one guardsman or put D6+1 wounds on a tank, whilst that gun in AoS would kill D6+1 guardsmen or put D6+1 wounds on a tank. Damage 2 guns will inflict two damage each on the unit, not just per model.

The chance of the lascannon doing either is also pretty much equal in AoS as there's no interaction between the weapon and target's statline (outside of the armour save).

 

That flattens the curve a bit for what tools you need to deal with the things you encounter, there's no Paper/Scissors/Stone element of Anti-tank/Anti-Meq/Anti-Geq that you need to worry about in a small game and the units are going to behave a little more predictably regardless of opponent. There's also the obvious increased focus on melee compared to 40K which leans more towards range.

 

This lets Spearhead also focus a bit more on the movement side of things, which lets it keep the missions a little more interesting at the smaller points despite having fewer individual pieces to move than larger AoS. It's also a lot more willing to have units in reserve and only arrive 'when the cavalry is here' in the last turn or two. Combat patrol dabbles with bringing units back for cheap chaff units, but doesn't have the same kind of 'tactical puzzle' that the Spearhead sets up. 

 

There's certainly some elements I think they could bring over, but also some differences between the two systems that would make 40K Spearhead a little trickier. But if they're starting afresh that is definitely going to help.

[01RTB01]

6 minutes ago, Tastyfish said:

 

I think a lot of that comes down to 40K having a Toughness mechanic and wounds for individual models whilst AoS doesn't. Lascannon in 40K might kill one guardsman or put D6+1 wounds on a tank, whilst that gun in AoS would kill D6+1 guardsmen or put D6+1 wounds on a tank. Damage 2 guns will inflict two damage each on the unit, not just per model.

The chance of the lascannon doing either is also pretty much equal in AoS as there's no interaction between the weapon and target's statline (outside of the armour save).

 

That flattens the curve a bit for what tools you need to deal with the things you encounter, there's no Paper/Scissors/Stone element of Anti-tank/Anti-Meq/Anti-Geq that you need to worry about in a small game and the units are going to behave a little more predictably regardless of opponent. There's also the obvious increased focus on melee compared to 40K which leans more towards range.

 

This lets Spearhead also focus a bit more on the movement side of things, which lets it keep the missions a little more interesting at the smaller points despite having fewer individual pieces to move than larger AoS. It's also a lot more willing to have units in reserve and only arrive 'when the cavalry is here' in the last turn or two. Combat patrol dabbles with bringing units back for cheap chaff units, but doesn't have the same kind of 'tactical puzzle' that the Spearhead sets up. 

 

There's certainly some elements I think they could bring over, but also some differences between the two systems that would make 40K Spearhead a little trickier. But if they're starting afresh that is definitely going to help.

Not to be blunt, the difference is that the 40k team didn't develop the game, the AoS team did. They could balance combat patrol but need to invest time in it's development. 

[TheMawr]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Combat patrol (CP)- 40k's half hearted attempt at small games using a solitary box's contents.

 

Spearhead - AoS's version of small games using a solitary box's contents, however, it's much more developed than combat patrol. There's specific boards and 2 supplements with cards and boards for it.

 

Spearhead is seen as a genuinely viable format for games and I've played spearhead and CP. Spearhead has clearly had love and development time put into it. Combat patrol was neglected which along with the myriad of dull boxes means that CP doesn't really get played. Spearhead boxes tend to have more in than CP boxes and a nice variety of 'stuff'.

 

Hopefully for 11th Ed they continue the uptrend in more interesting boxes and develop the game format, but time will tell.

 

So basically the usual AoS vs 40k treatment, to make another comparison ; grotmas detachments vs scourge of ghyran.. doing a similar thing but the latter has stories written, artwork and videos made etc for each factions special rules focus. I feel in those departments 40k's "invincibility" is more a curse than a blessing at times. 

 

Personally I feel that boarding actions is the one to make into 40k's spearhead ( just call it space crusade :p ). But that's very egotistic as im not too fond of vehicles and love my sci-fi to be indoors, so while it's hard to be really objective about it, I think objectively its probably easier to balance and keep a strong thematic flow. The problem is you auto-exclude 2 factions. It's also limiting for what people want discounts on in these boxes. ( the necron box coincidentally would work in a boarding actions style modus )

 

----

As to what others said Its not very likely this Ultramarine focus is in response to space marine 2 popularity though.. the response time is simply too short, it could have been anticipated and "co-developed" ofcourse, but I dont think thinking that deep is necessary as its really nothing new. They logically always get a little bit extra treatment to other non divergent chapters but its still just a little bit, the main reason it stands out from other armies poster subfactions is because spacemarines get extra treatment as a whole.. as in it is/was almost only the ultramarine equivalents getting releases in others ( martyred lady, sauthek dynasty etc )  but with spacemarines the other chapters also get characters and upgrade sprues.. its already an extra. But makes it feel to people as if they get less love.

 

Besides, I doubt ultramarines get more than they lost.

( and I say that as someone absolutely not into marines and with armies on the opposite side of the attention spectrum, secretly hoping that the font is indicative of things that are my flavor also having some attention here. )

 

[Mogger351]

6 hours ago, TheMawr said:

 

So basically the usual AoS vs 40k treatment, to make another comparison ; grotmas detachments vs scourge of ghyran.. doing a similar thing but the latter has stories written, artwork and videos made etc for each factions special rules focus. I feel in those departments 40k's "invincibility" is more a curse than a blessing at times. 

 

Personally I feel that boarding actions is the one to make into 40k's spearhead ( just call it space crusade :p ). But that's very egotistic as im not too fond of vehicles and love my sci-fi to be indoors, so while it's hard to be really objective about it, I think objectively its probably easier to balance and keep a strong thematic flow. The problem is you auto-exclude 2 factions. It's also limiting for what people want discounts on in these boxes. ( the necron box coincidentally would work in a boarding actions style modus )

 

----

As to what others said Its not very likely this Ultramarine focus is in response to space marine 2 popularity though.. the response time is simply too short, it could have been anticipated and "co-developed" ofcourse, but I dont think thinking that deep is necessary as its really nothing new. They logically always get a little bit extra treatment to other non divergent chapters but its still just a little bit, the main reason it stands out from other armies poster subfactions is because spacemarines get extra treatment as a whole.. as in it is/was almost only the ultramarine equivalents getting releases in others ( martyred lady, sauthek dynasty etc )  but with spacemarines the other chapters also get characters and upgrade sprues.. its already an extra. But makes it feel to people as if they get less love.

 

Besides, I doubt ultramarines get more than they lost.

( and I say that as someone absolutely not into marines and with armies on the opposite side of the attention spectrum, secretly hoping that the font is indicative of things that are my flavor also having some attention here. )

 

The bigger issue there is that boarding actions requires a lot more terrain than is needed for spearhead. To add to the fact 40k is more ranged combat centric and it'll need some real consideration to balance it properly. It almost needs a fully different rules set to work at that scale with similar box contents.

[TheMawr]

Can't easily post pictures now but there is a leaked world eaters berserker surgeon. Partly seems fake or converted, however  it features a rumor engine from a different angle.. it also lacks telling signs of ai... but that's ever more advanced.

 

If real, then we might go into a something released for everyone campaign despite the selective theme. ( this isn't necessarily new, not all releases in arks of omen where directly related ( ok it was just snikrot who wasnt ) and psychic awakening actually rarely featured awakened psykers ) 

This wouldn't be too unrealistic because previous end of edition campaigns still had codex releases alongside them, wich isn't the case now.

[silverstu]

21 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Can't easily post pictures now but there is a leaked world eaters berserker surgeon. Partly seems fake or converted, however  it features a rumor engine from a different angle.. it also lacks telling signs of ai... but that's ever more advanced.

 

If real, then we might go into a something released for everyone campaign despite the selective theme. ( this isn't necessarily new, not all releases in arks of omen where directly related ( ok it was just snikrot who wasnt ) and psychic awakening actually rarely featured awakened psykers ) 

This wouldn't be too unrealistic because previous end of edition campaigns still had codex releases alongside them, wich isn't the case now.

Interesting, there was a Votann rumour of a jump unit which didn't appear with the codex [apparently the source was surprised at] and Valrak mentioned a Surgeon for WE in the run up to their codex- maybe a few things were held back to scatter through the end of edition campaign? Red terror has been mentioned for NIds too..

[Mogger351]

33 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Can't easily post pictures now but there is a leaked world eaters berserker surgeon. Partly seems fake or converted, however  it features a rumor engine from a different angle.. it also lacks telling signs of ai... but that's ever more advanced.

 

If real, then we might go into a something released for everyone campaign despite the selective theme. ( this isn't necessarily new, not all releases in arks of omen where directly related ( ok it was just snikrot who wasnt ) and psychic awakening actually rarely featured awakened psykers ) 

This wouldn't be too unrealistic because previous end of edition campaigns still had codex releases alongside them, wich isn't the case now.

I can't upload it for some reason but it looks very fake.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldEaters40k/s/oSFAsV4fKm