Question about Alpharius from Praetorian of Dorn

[Krelious]

I just finished Praetorian of Dorn and I just dont understand why Alpharius

Spoiler

allowed himself to be killed

. Is it related to the whole Alpha and Omega thing that was being chanted and some weird plan/ritual. It just seems odd because even in the epilogue Omegon is confused and distraught losing his twin. IDK I feel like maybe this is just one of those mystery box type things where it will be explained later but they have no plans with it now kinda deal. 

[Scribe]

From what I remember he was so full of himself so convinced in his own cleverness that he assumed Dorn would agree.

 

Dorn cut him down instead.

 

It's been a very long time, that could be head canon.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Scribe is right. 

 

We can only hope GW doesn't decide to retcon it.

[Fedor]

He doesn't. The fight just doesn't go to plan, as is foreshadowed by the earlier Dorn vs Ork warlord part. French writes it somewhat ambiguously, using the flawed viewpoint of Archamus (or whatever his name was) and his intervention to muddy the waters as to what extent the outcome was decided by it, but it's never suggested that Alpharius let himself be killed, not as far as I can remember.

 

Of course, the plan itself was thoroughly murky regarding Alpharius' intentions. Personally I did read the encounter as him trying to heavily injure and subdue Dorn, if not outright kill him.

Edited October 29 by Fedor

[Karhedron]

It gets confirmed later in Siege of Terra. The Alpha Legion had 30,000 troops in stasis hidden beneath the Imperial Palace. The implication is that the plan was for the AL to play both sides until a crucial point where they could unleash their reserves and win the day in favour of which side they chose to support. Dorn killing Alpharius instead of listening scuppered the plan and effectively forced the AL into a role they had only been playing up to that point.

[Krelious]

21 hours ago, Fedor said:

He doesn't. The fight just doesn't go to plan, as is foreshadowed by the earlier Dorn vs Ork warlord part. French writes it somewhat ambiguously, using the flawed viewpoint of Archamus (or whatever his name was) and his intervention to muddy the waters as to what extent the outcome was decided by it, but it's never suggested that Alpharius let himself be killed, not as far as I can remember.

 

Of course, the plan itself was thoroughly murky regarding Alpharius' intentions. Personally I did read the encounter as him trying to heavily injure and subdue Dorn, if not outright kill him.

Considering Alpharius isnt really known for combat prowess it doesnt really make sense for him to take on Dorn in a 1v1 with no clear advantage. I mean I thought he was trying to trick him into teleporting into that room with the explosives and blowing him up but nothing really came of that. 

 

If anything theres some kinda poetic irony in that it seems Dorn tanks the blow from the Spear in order to kill Alpharius which is then kinda what Abbadon does to Sigismund. 

 

Overall I find the final encounter to be kinda odd and non-sensical on all grounds, its clear that Dorn didnt have to kill Alpharius and was better to just subdue him and take him back to Terra, Alpharius' plan just makes no sense at all and is kind of character breaking and it comes off as like everything is planned just as planned even you foiling my plan oh now im dead.  It seems like Dorn has some magical plot armour where he defeats other Primarchs who are supposed to be military geniuses and masters of their craft by them just acting dim. 

Edited October 30 by Grotsmasha
=] Replaced Problematic Term [=

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, Krelious said:

It seems like Dorn has some magical plot armour where he defeats other Primarchs who are supposed to be military geniuses and masters of their craft by them just acting dim. 

 

The impression that this book and Saturnine give is that Dorn was a bit of a sleeper hit by Primarch standards. He got on with doing his job without being overly flashy and people tended to overlook him but he was actually much more savvy and skilled than he let on and was adept at using people's flaws to undermine them, even in their supposed area of expertise.

 

Fulgrim saw himself as a peerless duelist but Dorn held him off long enough and injured him enough to make him angry. Then Dorn revealed that the whole Saturnine gambit had been a trap to lure the cream of Legion into a killzone and Fulgrim walked right into it. He managed to wound Fulgrim's pride (one part of him that was still vulnerable despite his ascension) and he did it so hard Fulgrim vanished in a warp-powered sulk.

 

In PoD, he had already deduced that Alpharius was playing mind-games and that the way to draw him was to spring his trap. The only thing he did not see coming was that Alpharius was playing both sides and planned on giving him intel (after showboating of course). Alpharius also underestimated Dorn's temper and assumed he would be able to hold off Dorn long enough to reason with him. In the event Dorn tanked Alpharius's hit and killed him before he could get that far. In a sense, Alpharius outwitted himself, he played the role of double-agent too well to the point that his brother killed him for his betrayal.

[Fedor]

Alpharius not being as capable in combat was something a part of the fanbase decided on, not something ever mentioned (or implied) in official background.

 

imo, it's largely open as to what Alpharius intended...after all, it's Omegon that has been consistently set up before this as actually helping the loyalists, to the point of sabotaging AL plans. Alpharius motives are murkier; he could still be following the Cabal's intentions (broadly), or maybe he had come around to Omegon's more pro-loyalist thinking and was intending to inform Dorn, but it was a ridiculous way to go about it.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31 by Fedor

[Commander Nicky]

Theme Alpha Legion

Something most don’t think about is whether the Alpha Legion REALLY is just a unified term for Astarte legionnaires of the loyalist legions who turn on their legion in large numbers or and/or are unconvinced of their Primarch’s true allegiance or certainty of victory: however, till remaining in the legion’s livery:

Alpha Legionaries all look the same but think very differently: there is no unified code of honor or something to keep them on high moral ground; or willfulness in their commanding officer/leader except living another day: Except the most basic need for changes: Some Imperial Fists could have called on mutiny when the Alpha Legion arrived or be sleeper cells of Dorn’s gene-seed.

Was the Alpha Legion’s attack a plot to assassinate Dorn when he was at Pluto:?

Was there a twist of doubt in Dorn’s willingness to see that they were going too far in their victory-at-all-cost:?

Is the Alpha Legion a patchwork of different turncoats of former loyal legionaries, their ships, weapons and armory who are just willing to do anything to survive:?