17:3 Gender Ratio in my friend's school's Warhammer Club

[Captain Idaho]

3 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Guys I think I might have been doing it wrong … 

 

I think we all are, in that case.

[Evil Eye]

My wife isn't into Warhams (yet) but she does find my models interesting, and one of my best online Warhams adjacent friends is a girl with a fixation on Kev Adams greenskins, so definitely a woman of taste. Also a fantastic painter, has given me some very good tips (including putting me onto Golden and their amazing quality acrylics). She's also a big fan of Mordheim and Second Edition 40K, for what that's worth!

 

I will say in my experience at least, I have found the community quite welcoming to girls. I remember going to Warhammer World and talking with a lovely female store runner named April whose favourite GW model was the Storm of Magic Cockatrice. I was a teenager at the time but it was nice to see a girl who was as into the hobby as me. I wonder if she's still hobbling?

[Tawnis]

20 hours ago, crimsondave said:

 

I wish my wife and daughter had any interest in it at all.  I could probably get my daughter to paint, but that's about it.  She thinks it's too scary when she sees me playing SM2.  My wife is happy for me to enjoy it but has zero interest.  She couldn't even pay attention to LoTRs.  Oh well.  Just know you're lucky.

I do. For my daughter it started out with painting too. She'd always ask what I was doing when I was painting my models and wanted to help, so I took a few spare models out of my collection from various factions and asked her which she liked the most. She immediately grabbed a pair of Termagaunts, painted them up and the rest is history. 

I think the reason why my kids specifically gravitated to it the most (aside from the bonding time of doing something together) is that I basically just let them do their own thing with the models. We play the actual game here and there, but a lot of times, they're sprawled around their room invading dollhouses, self built magna tile forts, or what have you. They get broken all the time and I've got a little repair shop set up for them. I basically treat any model they get as a write off and let them go wild with them.  

 

19 hours ago, Rain said:

All of that said, I would love it if my daughter ever wanted to model, paint, or play with me when she gets a bit older. She is obsessed with Kpop Demonhunters right now, so, maybe Grey Knights? 

 

I'm sure you could paint up a Callidus Assasin to look like Rumi, they've got the hairstyle. 

Edited November 5 by Tawnis

[Robbienw]

Yeah that is not representative of most clubs 

Edited November 5 by Robbienw

[Captain Idaho]

I must say, now this could be coincidentally anecdote, the standard for girls in the hobby (painting) seems to sit as a higher average than the male side of things.

 

I suspect this is because those into it are in reduced numbers therefore the ones who are good are the ones who progress, whereas the new male starters are often into it for slightly different, cultural "fad" types of reasons.

 

Also concentration perhaps. At my boxing, the skill standard is quite higher on average for the girls on a technical basis. One of our coaches remarked "it's because they listen" but I think that's also linked to the submissive nature of the feminine versus the masculine. But we're talking in phycologist circles here anyway.

[Norman Paperman]

20 hours ago, Rain said:

As much hand wringing as this causes among certain types, 40k is obviously a male-centric hobby with themes, models, etc. that appeal to boys and men. Doesn't mean that girls and women can't participate, or that they should be discouraged from doing so, but there is nothing wrong with media that is made to appeal to boys and men. There are other ways to make it work, however. My wife and I will put on podcasts in the evening, and I will build/paint 40k while she does cross stitch. We do different things, but we still turn it into quality time together. All of that said, I would love it if my daughter ever wanted to model, paint, or play with me when she gets a bit older. She is obsessed with Kpop Demonhunters right now, so, maybe Grey Knights? 

 

But somehow I think I have a better shot at getting her into cars than 40k as her "thing to do with dad to humor him."

My wife and I are similar in that we do different things in the same room. She loves all of that Real Housewives kinda TV, which is entertainment by women (and gay men) for women (and gay men). It's unapologetic about what it is and who it is for, and while the shows aren't my cup of tea, there's lots of stuff in the surrounding podcast and youtube ecosystem that I think is pretty funny and lets us connect about it. I have always thought that the best way to get guys or girls into each others hobbies is for those hobbies to be authentic in what they are. Something that bends itself to broaden appeal is going to create strife within its community (people notice when the nerds are fighting about girl space marines) and the "inclusive" changes doesn't seem to actually draw outsiders in. Star Wars didn't get more popular by making the Force female, it kinda died in the process. Real Housewives wouldn't get more popular by adding straight-man plotlines. At this point I tend to laugh at conversations about making male-hobbies more attractive to women because I see firsthand how my wife's hobby spaces aren't in the least bit interested in making themselves more attractive to me, and they're 100x better because of it. 

 

Unfortunately, it feels like we just lived through a decade where certain corners of the internet did have a problem with male-centric hobbies and that ended up with real changes in a lot of hobby spaces (and it's practically taboo to talk about). I think that era is ending, but I also think that a big part of Warhammer's current popularity is that it maintained its character while other male spaces bent themselves to try and capture female audiences. Turns out that most people just want to do stuff that is fun and join communities where they can have fun with other people, rather than wait for a hobby to become massively appealing (and therefore entirely unappealing pabulum) before jumping in. The boys are always going to be more interested in playing with toy soldiers fighting existential cosmic horrors, and that's okay, and the best way to get women interested in playing with the boys is to see a lot of boys having good clean fun. 

[Magos Takatus]

20 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I must say, now this could be coincidentally anecdote, the standard for girls in the hobby (painting) seems to sit as a higher average than the male side of things.

 

I suspect this is because those into it are in reduced numbers therefore the ones who are good are the ones who progress, whereas the new male starters are often into it for slightly different, cultural "fad" types of reasons.

 

Also concentration perhaps. At my boxing, the skill standard is quite higher on average for the girls on a technical basis. One of our coaches remarked "it's because they listen" but I think that's also linked to the submissive nature of the feminine versus the masculine. But we're talking in phycologist circles here anyway.

Alas, there is no "Oh, that's a very interesting perspective" reaction. I hadn't really thought about it, but when I do see women in the hobby they are as equally trapped in it's clutches as I am. I rarely see a "fad" hobbyist that's female. Mind you, how many of the people on this forum are women but don't advertise the fact because it can cause more friction than it's worth? I've quite a few friends that are female videogamers, and they have confirmed they do get treated badly online at times. I do wonder if this more analogue, face-to-face hobby is more accepting in general? I guess I've taken yours psychology question and twisted it a little more into demographics, but I still think it's interesting to ponder.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah, it's interesting to consider the psychology for intellectual reasons, but how can we utilise knowledge of that to hook more girls into the hobby!

 

I think many would agree that it's not about the female representation of mainline factions, when females are often collecting Tyranids, Orks, chaos etc.

 

So going back to reference the OP... what can we do to foster such a commitment and replicate the draw of those females?

 

Also, there's another aspect. If we saw the numbers in the OP widespread, well that's basically driving away males into a reverse circumstance, which is back in the same situation.

[Helbrechts_Sword_Servitor]

On 11/4/2025 at 4:13 PM, crimsondave said:

 

I wish my wife and daughter had any interest in it at all.  I could probably get my daughter to paint, but that's about it.  She thinks it's too scary when she sees me playing SM2.  My wife is happy for me to enjoy it but has zero interest.  She couldn't even pay attention to LoTRs.  Oh well.  Just know you're lucky.

It's the same here.

 

And the worst part is that my wife is a perfectionist (except when choosing a husband, it seems), and she would be a much better painter than me.

[Orange Knight]

You think any of these girls are upset because Primaris marines were introduced in 8th edition? lol

I am joking of course. If you're a young lad you best get yourself to the warhammer club lol

 

Funny enough, I have definitely seen an uptick of women in the hobby at my FLGS, the offical GW stores and at Warhammer World as well, and not just ladies who visit with their significant other, but actual painters/collectors/players.

 

Edited November 6 by Orange Knight

[Matcap86]

It's also just a general trend for "nerdy" hobbys to be more socially acceptible in general nowadays I think. Warhammer used to be a niche niche hobby, the pool of entrants is growing and with that the amount of female players/collectors/hobbyists as well. Only a good thing.

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

It's also just a general trend for "nerdy" hobbys to be more socially acceptible in general nowadays I think. Warhammer used to be a niche niche hobby, the pool of entrants is growing and with that the amount of female players/collectors/hobbyists as well. Only a good thing.

 

This is a good point. For the most part, any female player who wanted to participate back in the day was welcome. In general, though, most women were not rushing to hang out with guys who played Warhammer. There is a reason Steve Carrell's character in The 40-Year-Old Virgin had an epic miniatures collection. That is how society viewed the hobby until very recently.

 

Same with other newly popular hobbies like anime, manga, video gaming etc. If those of us who are getting on in years can be honest, we will remember that it was pretty uncool to be into any of these things.

 

Now that is changing. This also contributes to demographic shifts, along with more efforts to showcase parts of the hobby beyond the tabletop aspect.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

56 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

This is a good point. For the most part, any female player who wanted to participate back in the day was welcome. In general, though, most women were not rushing to hang out with guys who played Warhammer. There is a reason Steve Carrell's character in The 40-Year-Old Virgin had an epic miniatures collection. That is how society viewed the hobby until very recently.

 

Same with other newly popular hobbies like anime, manga, video gaming etc. If those of us who are getting on in years can be honest, we will remember that it was pretty uncool to be into any of these things.

 

Now that is changing. This also contributes to demographic shifts, along with more efforts to showcase parts of the hobby beyond the tabletop aspect.

I just did a quick Google-Fu move to look up the most unattractive hobbies a man can have according to women. The source in this case is Beardlong.com although it won´t matter much on which website you tend to look. Guess what hobby resides on Nr. 1 as most unattractive? It´s...(quote incoming):

 

"Obsessive Collecting (Toys, Action Figures, etc.)

Why it’s unattractive: It’s not the hobby itself—it’s when it becomes obsessive, juvenile, or replaces real-life relationships.

The issue:

Seen as immature if it dominates your identity

Suggests living in the past or avoiding adulthood

May feel emotionally unavailable or socially awkward"

 

That´s why you don´t see many women in the hobby. It´s not because guys keep the doors closed but women find it disgusting.

[Tawnis]

2 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

I just did a quick Google-Fu move to look up the most unattractive hobbies a man can have according to women. The source in this case is Beardlong.com although it won´t matter much on which website you tend to look. Guess what hobby resides on Nr. 1 as most unattractive? It´s...(quote incoming):

 

"Obsessive Collecting (Toys, Action Figures, etc.)

Why it’s unattractive: It’s not the hobby itself—it’s when it becomes obsessive, juvenile, or replaces real-life relationships.

The issue:

Seen as immature if it dominates your identity

Suggests living in the past or avoiding adulthood

May feel emotionally unavailable or socially awkward"

 

That´s why you don´t see many women in the hobby. It´s not because guys keep the doors closed but women find it disgusting.

The question I would ask, (and you'll likely never know with internet surveys) is who were the kinds of women they asked about this, because there are many factors being gender like age / class / culture / ect... that can give people various opinions on things. You're going to get a vastly different reaction from a handful of gamer girls than you would prom queens, or housewives, or CEOs, or sports players.

 

Without knowing the size and demographics surveyed, a survey is basically worthless because there is no way to tell if it's completely skewed or not. 

Edited November 6 by Tawnis

[Captain Idaho]

The question of demographics is an important one actually. When the old stereotype, socially awkward and poor hygiene "nerd" was obsessing over miniatures collecting and playing, it would put off many a prospective entrant to the hobby.

 

I include girls on this broadly too, but also sporty kids etc.

 

Things have changed slightly, with a wider acceptance overall but we can't kid ourselves and expect the "jochs" to be alongside the Black Legion players at the school dinner table.

 

**edit to remove personal references as irrelevant!***

 

Also, references to the above... how do we promote the hobby to wider demographics is the main subject of the post.

Edited November 7 by Captain Idaho

[ThePenitentOne]

7 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

I just did a quick Google-Fu move to look up the most unattractive hobbies a man can have according to women. The source in this case is Beardlong.com although it won´t matter much on which website you tend to look. Guess what hobby resides on Nr. 1 as most unattractive? It´s...(quote incoming):

 

"Obsessive Collecting (Toys, Action Figures, etc.)

Why it’s unattractive: It’s not the hobby itself—it’s when it becomes obsessive, juvenile, or replaces real-life relationships.

The issue:

Seen as immature if it dominates your identity

Suggests living in the past or avoiding adulthood

May feel emotionally unavailable or socially awkward"

 

That´s why you don´t see many women in the hobby. It´s not because guys keep the doors closed but women find it disgusting.

 

Yeah... no offense toBeardlong.com, but it feels like this was probably a pretty shallow survey. Most women that I know are intelligent enough to look for a guy who respects them and makes them laugh; their hobbies tend to not factor into the equation, though shared interests CAN be a bonus, and DO provide opportunities to meet.

 

And if hobbies were a factor, shooting smack, high-stakes gambling, dog fighting, street racing and making amateur porn are WAY more repugnant hobbies than playing with toys.

 

But then, I'm one of the lucky ones. I met my partner at a games convention. Roleplaying games and videogames are their poison these days; we played some of the original Necromunda and they liked that well enough in the day, but after a decade of wall-to-wall videogaming, the table-top strategy instincts have faded.  They were also better at Kendo than I was.

 

Nerd women/girls are real and nerd love is powerful love. Next April 15th will be the 30th anniversary of our first date. 

[Orange Knight]

10 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

When the old stereotype, socially awkward and poor hygiene "nerd" was obsessing over miniatures collecting and playing, it would put off many a prospective entrant to the hobby.

 

 

I always wonder if the smelly guy is aware of the fact that he's the smelly guy.
 

I can confirm that women and general prospective hobbyists are immediately turned away from people like this as I have seen it more than once, and we should perhaps be more honest with people about their impact on those around them.

As for nerd girls - yes there are definitely more of them these days, and some of them "Out-Nerd" most nerdy guys by a significant margin lol

Edited November 7 by Orange Knight

[Teetengee]

On 11/5/2025 at 3:56 PM, Captain Idaho said:

I must say, now this could be coincidentally anecdote, the standard for girls in the hobby (painting) seems to sit as a higher average than the male side of things.

Makeup and mini painting have transferable skills (something I found out in the perhaps the reverse direction of most feminine folks, but glad I did).

In my experience, hobbies like ours tend to silo into places marginalized genders feel welcome and those we don't. We gravitate toward spaces where misogyny and transphobia are minimal, but the presence of them can also turn a lot of us off more entirely. So you get spaces where women and trans folks dominate, and then a whole lot of places where we're entirely absent in favor of cis men. Also, like...we talk. When we find a place that feels comfortable, we bring our friends along to join in the fun, and you can see a rapid change in a spaces demographics pretty quick. But then there are folks like my ex who have one bad experience early on and just swear off all wargames forever. Imo, the biggest way to get more women in the hobby is simply to have equality minded folks be the ones doing introductions; first impressions are so important.

I think whether or not individual armies are inclusive or not is much less of an issue, especially in 40k where it's not like we're supposed to be emulating any of these factions (Diversity Win, the Space Fascist is a Woman!/s). That mainly comes from whether there are interesting hobby opportunities, except when dealing with the books. I personally think primaris should have been used as an opportunity to overwrite the old lore about gender/sex restrictions (either get rid of it entirely or make it clear that it's done because the imperium just want men and are a reactionary force opposed to progress or change. The old lore justification just doesn't hold water in a scientific context and unfortunately coincides with some common misperceptions that drive real world issues. If they made it clear that the mechanicus just thought that was the case though, that'd be fine.) I will say though that "women don't play the sororitas, see, adding women models won't help" isn't the argument people might think it is, given the S&M influences in their design and the way many people might see that as demeaning (personally, I find the kinky catholics aesthetics to be pretty funny and satirical, but I can get why it's not everyone's taste).

TL;DR: Getting more women in the hobby is gonna require a focus on first impressions and community reputation much moreso than any content of the game itself. It's not that surprising to see any marginalized group, well, group up within a niche hobby, particularly one with 40k's demographic history.

[Captain Idaho]

I think you raise some good points, from a different angle myself would generally even consider. 

 

I think preconceived ideas and presentation does matter, you're totally right. I think a friendly face in the introductory stage is perhaps the most critical here.

 

But when we get a group of hobbyists together, we can't deny that the hobby does entice those who might be socially awkward and hygiene adjacent enough to perhaps drive away errant "normies", male or female. Even if not malicious, how do we make it so that is an exception rather than expected, in the perceived normal?

1 hour ago, Teetengee said:

Makeup and mini painting have transferable skills (something I found out in the perhaps the reverse direction of most feminine folks, but glad I did).

 

Good point too! Now you mention it, I do remember ex girlfriends in the past swiping my fine detail paint brushes for their preparation for nights out, specifically for nails and things.

 

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

hygiene adjacent

 

Taking this one, thank you. 

 

Also worth noting that the people who populated the hobby 20-30 years ago were and still are just looking to enjoy their things in peace, and are welcoming of anyone who wants to enjoy those same things. Likewise for people who started more recently. All most people ask is that newcomers do not look down on the existing enjoyers just because the newcomers joined when it was cool.

 

So maybe the question is less "how do we change ourselves to fit in with people who do not like our thing" and more "how do we show more people that it is OK to like our thing."

 

Edited November 7 by phandaal
removed extraneous off topic stuff

[Tawnis]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

But when we get a group of hobbyists together, we can't deny that the hobby does entice those who might be socially awkward and hygiene adjacent enough to perhaps drive away errant "normies", male or female. Even if not malicious, how do we make it so that is an exception rather than expected, in the perceived normal?

 

 

It is that exact stereotype that needs to be combatted. I can only speak from my personal experience, but in recent years when I've been far more engaged in the hobby (I've played for 20 years, but I've only been out to frequent events and tournaments in the last 5) I've seen very little of the stereotypes associated with 40k. 

 

- There are a few women in our playgroup, and (at least so far as I've seen) they're not treated any differently than any of the guys. 

- I've yet to encounter, even at some large 100+ people events, anyone who noticeably smelled, or had terrible hygiene. The worst is one guy in our playgroup is a chain-smoker, but even he has the decency to not do it while we're carpooling or near the front door to the FLGS, and he must be very thorough in washing his cloths because they somehow don't reek of tobacco. 

- I've only encountered "That Guy" once and he was quickly banned from the store soon after. I think a lot more FLGS's are taking more proactive measures about this kind of stuff. 

 

Despite all this, I constantly still see internet memes and stories about all kinds of terrible experiences people have had in the hobby. Maybe it's just that crazy stories like that draw people in, but while they certainly do happen, I think the ease of access to these kinds of stories on the internet keeps the stereotypes alive and strong, when they are starting to fade away in reality. 

Edited November 7 by Tawnis

[Norman Paperman]

The conversation about awkward and smelly nerds at our hobby stores is probably as old as time and spans across all of the nerdy hobbies, but I must urge compassion for those guys as well. I know that nobody ever intends malice in these sorts of conversations and I don't want guys to stay locked in their awkward boxes and not receive hygiene advice, but it's a very fine line between "making them an exception rather than expected" and driving them off in favour of the normies. Yes, the smelly chaps and odd ducks drive away women and honestly they drove me away from playing Magic the Gathering, but the subtext of the conversation very quickly becomes one of "how do we drive these people off so that the people we actually want come play instead?" I gotta say, that this sometimes gets called "inclusion" really gets stuck in my throat. 

 

If you have a store of 20 players, all guys, and five of them are smelly, and the five smelly guys leave and five women take their place, is that "better"? Is that more people playing Warhammer? Is getting chased off a positive experience in those men's lives? Those men deserve a friendly place the same as every other human being. 

 

And I will say re: misogyny, that men need spaces that are male. Places where we can complain and be the slightest bit negative about the women in our lives without being judged for it. That's not necessarily Warhammer, but these conversations about making hobby spaces more attractive to women runs right into this very real and legitimate need for men and we get absolutely eviscerated for any push back to defend our space as male. 

 

Warhammer is for everyone, but hobbies fill real needs in our lives and those needs are different for everyone. I challenge us to never forget that the awkward men are part of "everyone" and that a safe male space is worth its weight in gold. 

[Scribe]

11 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

And I will say re: misogyny, that men need spaces that are male. Places where we can complain and be the slightest bit negative about the women in our lives without being judged for it. That's not necessarily Warhammer, but these conversations about making hobby spaces more attractive to women runs right into this very real and legitimate need for men and we get absolutely eviscerated for any push back to defend our space as male. 

 

Warhammer is for everyone, but hobbies fill real needs in our lives and those needs are different for everyone. I challenge us to never forget that the awkward men are part of "everyone" and that a safe male space is worth its weight in gold. 

 

Men need their spaces, and women absolutely need their spaces. People do not need to look very far to see that studies are out there pointing out the breakdown of these various systems, and the associated breakdowns in both men and women.

 

The studies cannot just outright say what we all know however, without getting slammed for being 'exclusionary'.

[Teetengee]

17 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Men need their spaces, and women absolutely need their spaces. People do not need to look very far to see that studies are out there pointing out the breakdown of these various systems, and the associated breakdowns in both men and women.

 

The studies cannot just outright say what we all know however, without getting slammed for being 'exclusionary'.

Can you site these studies or say what it is you claim they're afraid to? Also, what are your concerns with "breakdown in both men and women" and how is that relevant to the 40k hobby?/gen

 

32 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

And I will say re: misogyny, that men need spaces that are male. Places where we can complain and be the slightest bit negative about the women in our lives without being judged for it. That's not necessarily Warhammer, but these conversations about making hobby spaces more attractive to women runs right into this very real and legitimate need for men and we get absolutely eviscerated for any push back to defend our space as male.

Why shouldn't people be judged for being negative about women in a categorical way: that is misogyny. If you have specific complaints about specific women in your life, then there's no need to segregate who you complain to, your friends of any gender should be more than willing to listen to your woes, if they're not, either they're bad friends or your complaints are unfounded and they're trying to hold you to that (I don't know you or the other people in your hypothetical, so I make no claims as to which that is).

As for losing 5 men and gaining 5 women, that's not the math I tend to see. You get a lot more people than you lose by getting rid of people who are actually awful in your community. Having poor hygiene doesn't make you a bad person, though. Talking to someone, explaining the impact they're having on those around them, asking if there's anything they're struggling with or that you can help with, all good ways of solving the problem so you don't lose anyone. It's not zero sum. There was a guy I knew who used to come to my flgs when I was younger and he struggled with hygiene. Just meant that sometimes you had to gently take him aside, ask him to go home and shower/change clothes, and he'd come back and it was fine. To my understanding he had some mental health issues that made it harder, so it's not like he was trying to harm anybody, so there's no reason to treat him like he was (I think he also may have had an impaired sense of smell, but I don't recall perfectly).

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

13 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

 

Yeah... no offense toBeardlong.com, but it feels like this was probably a pretty shallow survey. Most women that I know are intelligent enough to look for a guy who respects them and makes them laugh; their hobbies tend to not factor into the equation, though shared interests CAN be a bonus, and DO provide opportunities to meet.

 

And if hobbies were a factor, shooting smack, high-stakes gambling, dog fighting, street racing and making amateur porn are WAY more repugnant hobbies than playing with toys.

 

But then, I'm one of the lucky ones. I met my partner at a games convention. Roleplaying games and videogames are their poison these days; we played some of the original Necromunda and they liked that well enough in the day, but after a decade of wall-to-wall videogaming, the table-top strategy instincts have faded.  They were also better at Kendo than I was.

 

Nerd women/girls are real and nerd love is powerful love. Next April 15th will be the 30th anniversary of our first date. 

It doesn´t matter if you like the outcome of this survey or not. Fact is that women in general have a profound distaste in several male hobby activities. And to speak to the younger male audience here who still date: If you are a tabletop gamer and her face turns sour when you mention your hobby then you just dodged a bullet. Here is another survey with the same outcome:

 

Least Attractive Hobbies for Men According to Women:

Time stamp: 2:43 min. (Collecting figurines with a 85% score)

 

So if you want to have a good time with her just lie and claim to be a bird watcher (only 50% score). LOL!