New Codex / supplement

[Hear da Lamentation]

Hail Wolf-brothers,

 

It's been a lot of years since I posted last,  I started back in 5th edition.

Getting back into things recently and have bought the new codex.  I have to say, I was initially so disappointed with the amount of stuff we had lost.  

A full page describing Long Fangs - and another describing Wolf Scouts - and neither are options in the army.... felt like a bit of a kick in the teeth.

 

So I'm trying to get past that and build a 1000point army to trial against my long term Tyranid adversary.

Apologies if there is an army list section, I couldn't find one.  I'd love to hear some feedback from those of you more practiced than me....

 

I've made what I think is a good "core" and am then trying to add other options to is.

 

Saga of Beastslayer

 

Option 1

BJORN

RAGNAR

3 TWC

3 TWC

10 Bloodclaws (Ragnar goes with them)

 

5 Wulfen s/s

WGBL with Wolf-touched

Vindicator

 

Option 2

BJORN

RAGNAR

3 TWC

3 TWC

10 Bloodclaws (Ragnar goes with them)

 

5 WG Terminators

5 Wulfen s/s

WGBL with wolf touched

Helm of Beastslayer

 

Option 3

BJORN

RAGNAR

3 TWC

3 TWC

10 Bloodclaws (Ragnar goes with them)

 

5 Wulfen (basic)

5 WG Terminators

Arjac

 

I'm thinking I need some back-field objective grabbers though ... so final one.

 

Option 4

BJORN

RAGNAR

3 TWC

3 TWC

10 Bloodclaws (Ragnar goes with them)

 

5 Intercessors

5 WG Terminators

Arjac

 

 

 

As I say, any advice will be much appreciated.

 

HDL.

[SvenIronhand]

1 hour ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

and another describing Wolf Scouts

Wolf Scouts, at least, are getting a kit again via KT.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Hi

 

Seen a lot of views but not many replies.  I'm thinking I have probably picked a fairly vanilla list which there isn't a lot to comment on??  But any advice would be really appreciated.

 

I've finalised it now ... I really wanted objective grabbing intercessors, but I couldn't fit them in unless I lost something I really wanted to try.  So I will be going more for tabling my opponent and tussling for mid-board objectives.

 

BJORN - warlord

RAGNAR and 10 Bloodclaws

3 TWC stormshields

3 TWC stormshields

5 Wulfen stormshields

WGBL with Wolf-touched

Predatory Destructor (twin lascannons)

5 Fenrisian Wolves (for screening schananigans)

 

 

I was really torn between the predator and fenrisian wolves or a unit of 5 termies with stormshields .... 

 

Thought I'd pop a photo in too :)  (I use the Blizz Dread for Bjorn.  I know its not right but I love the figure)

 

 

 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

1000-point games are hard to give advice for. There aren't many additional list building restrictions so it can lead to some pretty crazy lists, but at the end of the day most people use it to try stuff out. I really like it because there really isn't a meta or tournament lists to look at, but yeah getting advice for it can be rough.

 

That said I think the list you have will work well, but stormlance may be better a detachment for you but you should run Saga of the Beastslayer to see if you like it. 

[DanPesci]

3 hours ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

1000-point games are hard to give advice for. There aren't many additional list building restrictions so it can lead to some pretty crazy lists, but at the end of the day most people use it to try stuff out. I really like it because there really isn't a meta or tournament lists to look at, but yeah getting advice for it can be rough.

 

That said I think the list you have will work well, but stormlance may be better a detachment for you but you should run Saga of the Beastslayer to see if you like it. 

 

"Should run Saga of The Beastslayer.... AS ITS ACTUALLY SPACE WOLVES" 

 

Jokes aside, what jorin is saying is spot on, 1000pts is good fun for testing stuff out., but hard to really give proper advice for at competitive levels.

Ive had a few games at 1000 in the last year though and it can lead to some fun matchups (that still go out to 5 turns due to things being way less killy)

 

However... your list has some good mix of anti tank (pred), scoring/screening units (BCs and wolves), and ways to kill slightly more elite stuff (TWC/wulfen) that I think you should have a decent enough time of it. The TWC and wulfen are also nice and fast which is great at 1000pts where you really have to spread thin across the board.

 

Also having inv saves across a lot of the units is great, as on a good dice day that can really swing things in your favour, especially against matchups that have a lot of high-ap firepower.

 

It'll also make really good use of Beastslayer as you can try out all the strats, and it lets you punch up into the tougher targets (Bjorn is almost auto-include for me due to his CP farm and allowing you to really lean into the strats - which is great for test games too).

[Hear da Lamentation]

great answers, thanks folks - really appreciated.

 

Next time I will swop out the Predator for 5 Termies with storm shields and see how that goes.

 

I'll let you know how I get on against the Nids....

[Hear da Lamentation]

Well ... I lost .... 

 

He led most of the game with objective scoring - which I thought might happen, but I'd hoped to kill most of his stuff and  catch up at the end.

 

The thing that got me most was that when I WAS in combat - he was generally winning - so this makes me struggle with how to be offensive.

 

He had

Hive Tyrant and guard. 

Old One Eye + 1 Carnoflex. 

Broodlord and 5 genestealers.

Lictor

2 x 5 barbagaunts.

Mawlock

 

I spaced myself out to avoid the 12" mortal wound blast from his Mawlock, with most of my hard stuff in the middle and the predator screened by fenrisian wolves.

 

He went first, his genestealers ran the right flank, got into combat round 1 and wiped the wulfen out (other than the WGBL).  The rest of his army (other than barbagaunts) advanced full, pretty much in a straight line and the Mawlock dropped round 1 9" out of my deployment zone.

 

I took 1 TWC unit to attack the genestealers+BL on my flank, with the WGBL attacking as well.  It took 2 turns to kill them and i was left with 1 TWC.

 

The predator and Bjorn shot at the Tyrant and guard, then I charged Ragnar + Bloodclaws and the second TWC into them too (pretty much in the middle of the board).

I was really surprised.... after all that, only the guard was dead.  The Hive Tyrant was unhit.

 

I made a mistake here, charging into the middle of them - but the only other choice was to try and castle in the left hand corner ... and surely .. that's not "Wolfy"??

 

The carni's then charged in, killed the TWC, the Lictor killed Ragnar and then it was downhill from there.

 

The predator was good, but with him in combat round 1 and the rest of his army round 2 - it doesnt get that many shots ....

 

 

Would love some thoughts/advice here.  We are Assaulty ... and I'm getting out assaulted.....  What do I do?

 

HDL

 

Picture is Round 1, just after my charge phase.

 

 

[TiguriusX]

16 hours ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

Well ... I lost .... 

 

He led most of the game with objective scoring - which I thought might happen, but I'd hoped to kill most of his stuff and  catch up at the end.

 

The thing that got me most was that when I WAS in combat - he was generally winning - so this makes me struggle with how to be offensive.

 

He had

Hive Tyrant and guard. 

Old One Eye + 1 Carnoflex. 

Broodlord and 5 genestealers.

Lictor

2 x 5 barbagaunts.

Mawlock

 

I spaced myself out to avoid the 12" mortal wound blast from his Mawlock, with most of my hard stuff in the middle and the predator screened by fenrisian wolves.

 

He went first, his genestealers ran the right flank, got into combat round 1 and wiped the wulfen out (other than the WGBL).  The rest of his army (other than barbagaunts) advanced full, pretty much in a straight line and the Mawlock dropped round 1 9" out of my deployment zone.

 

I took 1 TWC unit to attack the genestealers+BL on my flank, with the WGBL attacking as well.  It took 2 turns to kill them and i was left with 1 TWC.

 

The predator and Bjorn shot at the Tyrant and guard, then I charged Ragnar + Bloodclaws and the second TWC into them too (pretty much in the middle of the board).

I was really surprised.... after all that, only the guard was dead.  The Hive Tyrant was unhit.

 

I made a mistake here, charging into the middle of them - but the only other choice was to try and castle in the left hand corner ... and surely .. that's not "Wolfy"??

 

The carni's then charged in, killed the TWC, the Lictor killed Ragnar and then it was downhill from there.

 

The predator was good, but with him in combat round 1 and the rest of his army round 2 - it doesnt get that many shots ....

 

 

Would love some thoughts/advice here.  We are Assaulty ... and I'm getting out assaulted.....  What do I do?

 

HDL

 

Picture is Round 1, just after my charge phase.

 

 

 

You played a 1000pt game is that correct?

 

The game isn't balanced that low...to make things worse your opponent took skew and you didn't have the necessary tools to deal with it

 

Hive Tyrant

Old one eye

Carnifex

Mawloc

 

Those are all high T and good armor saves

 

You need dedicated anti tank to kill every single one of those models...who the hell brings nothing but anti tank in a 1k game

 

IMO your opponent was a dick...its like playing against big knights and being surprised you can't stop them

 

 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

That list is what we call a stat check. At 1000 points it’s easy to end up against a skew list that you won’t have the tools for if you take an all comers list. If your opponent likes playing the big stuff then gear your list towards that. I don’t think you are that far off on a list to take that on. Wolves hunt they don’t blindly rush in. Use your screens wisely and fight when you have the overwhelming advantage. Don’t forget to play the mission. 

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks guys .... that really made me laugh TiguriusX.

 

I'll do exactly that Wolf Guard Dan and post what I come up with ... 

 

One of the other questions i had ... he used Vanguard Onslaught (hence the advance and charge) - but the real kicker was the ability to fall back, shoot with other units, then charge again.   I missed 9th edition so I'm learning the "who fights first" rules again ... and this seems so majorly powerful.  Basically he goes first when he charges me in his go.  Then it swops between us when it's my go (because we're in combat) - then its his go again and he gets to re-charge everything and go first again......

 

Or am I missing something?

 

HDL

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

Or am I missing something?

 

No, that's about right. Fighting first (either through controlling charges or the "Fights First" ability) is incredibly important in games where both sides are strong in melee. 

[TiguriusX]

3 hours ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

Thanks guys .... that really made me laugh TiguriusX.

 

I'll do exactly that Wolf Guard Dan and post what I come up with ... 

 

One of the other questions i had ... he used Vanguard Onslaught (hence the advance and charge) - but the real kicker was the ability to fall back, shoot with other units, then charge again.   I missed 9th edition so I'm learning the "who fights first" rules again ... and this seems so majorly powerful.  Basically he goes first when he charges me in his go.  Then it swops between us when it's my go (because we're in combat) - then its his go again and he gets to re-charge everything and go first again......

 

Or am I missing something?

 

HDL

 

Fighting order has 2 groupings

 

1) fight first

2) fight normal

 

Charging gives you fight first so as the attacker you usually swing first.  However...if the noj active/defending player has fight first he gets to activate before you.

 

 

You alternate back and forth until done with the specific grouping then start all over.  The fights normal begins with non active/defending player.

 

There are tricks to get around fights first...piling in is the most common

 

 

As for your 1K army

3xVindicators are a fun start

Gladiator lancers eat monster mash nids too

[Beef]

Sorry having just recently gotton back into the game after last playing 5th edition i cant really help much on tactics and army lists.  I played my 3rd game last week and got toughly smashed.  my 1st and 2nd game i marginally lost to necrons and chaos knights.  but my third game last week against chaos marines i got tabled.  My opponent was teaching me along the way and giving me option and he asked why i didn't have a combi lieutenant for objectives. 

 

My only advice is play the mission and remember the objective markers. Dont be like me and just rush into combat to die in glorious battle even if it feel counterintuitive.  40K has changed since 5th. 

 

Also could you post a few pics of that predator, i saw some teeth and want a closer look.

 

Thanks

[Hear da Lamentation]

18 hours ago, TiguriusX said:

There are tricks to get around fights first...piling in is the most common

 

Interesting .... I've read the rules on Pile In - how does that help against Fight First?

 

(I'm thinking what I have to avoid is multiple combats going on at the same time ....  It 's just too much of an advantage to have multiple units get fight first through charge on his go ... then alternate combat in my turn - then everyone goes first again in his turn thru fall-back and charge...

[Hear da Lamentation]

14 hours ago, Beef said:

Sorry having just recently gotton back into the game after last playing 5th edition i cant really help much on tactics and army lists.  I played my 3rd game last week and got toughly smashed.  my 1st and 2nd game i marginally lost to necrons and chaos knights.  but my third game last week against chaos marines i got tabled.  My opponent was teaching me along the way and giving me option and he asked why i didn't have a combi lieutenant for objectives. 

 

My only advice is play the mission and remember the objective markers. Dont be like me and just rush into combat to die in glorious battle even if it feel counterintuitive.  40K has changed since 5th. 

 

Also could you post a few pics of that predator, i saw some teeth and want a closer look.

 

great advice on combi-lieutenant ... I hadn't seen that guy.

 

Here's my predator, painted about 10 years ago :)  ... I've since added red at the bottom for a tongue after checking out some old WW2 fighter plane images.

 

[Hear da Lamentation]

Lots of posts today, sorry 

 

Taking some of the excellent advice, I thought I'd try one of these?  Not what I would normally go for but it might be an answer to the skew list he brought.

 

Vindicator 180

Vindicator 180

Bjorn 170

Brutalis Dread (multimelta) 160

Iron Priest 60

Terminators 170

Combi Lieutenant70

990 Points

 

OR

 

Vindicator 180

Predator annihilator 3 lascannons 135

Bjorn 170

Brutalis Dread (multimelta) 160

Iron Priest 60

Terminators 170

Combi Lieutenant70

5 fenrisian wolves 40

985 points

 

The idea being to DS the Termies into his back field as he advances virtually all his army - and kill back field stragglers (barbigaunts) and claim objective.

Combi Lieutenant holds one of my objectives on side of board until time is right - then use strategem to put him into reserves and bring him into back field and grab his second objective.... ?

 

HDL

[TiguriusX]

4 hours ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

 

Interesting .... I've read the rules on Pile In - how does that help against Fight First?

 

 

Fight first controls when you activate a unit.  It doesn't act like an interruption to stkp things in progress.

 

So charge unit A but spread models out wide so you can pile in to the Fight first unit when you activate.  Since they arent in combat they don't get to activate (bypassing Fight first).

 

Counter to that move is a heroic intervention (moves and counter moves...advanced stuff)

 

If you havent played 40k in a while they changed melee rules this edition.  Old rulrs...cant attack stuff you didnt charge.  New rules...attack whatever you want in engagement range

[TiguriusX]

4 hours ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

Lots of posts today, sorry 

 

Taking some of the excellent advice, I thought I'd try one of these?  Not what I would normally go for but it might be an answer to the skew list he brought.

 

Vindicator 180

Vindicator 180

Bjorn 170

Brutalis Dread (multimelta) 160

Iron Priest 60

Terminators 170

Combi Lieutenant70

990 Points

 

OR

 

Vindicator 180

Predator annihilator 3 lascannons 135

Bjorn 170

Brutalis Dread (multimelta) 160

Iron Priest 60

Terminators 170

Combi Lieutenant70

5 fenrisian wolves 40

985 points

 

The idea being to DS the Termies into his back field as he advances virtually all his army - and kill back field stragglers (barbigaunts) and claim objective.

Combi Lieutenant holds one of my objectives on side of board until time is right - then use strategem to put him into reserves and bring him into back field and grab his second objective.... ?

 

HDL

 

As you noted...1k skew doesnt feel like playing SW...but if your opponent is gonna monster mash you have no choice but to match.

 

Iron priest gives 1 gun rapid fire (so basically 1 extra shot).  The annihilator has the best single shot worth that buff (twin linked Predator las).  If you use the IP make sure you take that predator...the model looks badass too

 

Don't touch terminators...too expensive and not versatile enough for 1000pt games.

 

Competitive replacement is Intercessors to sticky so you can move on or an additional combi LT

[Karhedron]

I agree that Terminators are not great in 10th edition. Wolf Guard Terminators can do work when paired with Arjac (for heavy lifting on damage) or Logan (for Turn 1 Deep Strike) but those are a lot of points at 1000 points.

 

Intercessors are pretty good for 80 points as they can sticky an Objective and then move off to nab something else or perform actions. They also got a rules update meaning their boltrifles get 4 shots each provided the whole squad shoots at the same target. In a Beastslayer detachment, that can actually do some work as those shots are also AP-1 meaning that you will usually get 3-4 auto-wounds per turn from Lethal Hits. You can get 2 squads for the price of 1 Terminator squad. Add a power fist on the Sergeant and a Grenade launcher to at least threaten slightly tougher targets and they are a pretty versatile unit.

[Beef]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I agree that Terminators are not great in 10th edition. Wolf Guard Terminators can do work when paired with Arjac (for heavy lifting on damage) or Logan (for Turn 1 Deep Strike) but those are a lot of points at 1000 points.

 

Intercessors are pretty good for 80 points as they can sticky an Objective and then move off to nab something else or perform actions. They also got a rules update meaning their boltrifles get 4 shots each provided the whole squad shoots at the same target. In a Beastslayer detachment, that can actually do some work as those shots are also AP-1 meaning that you will usually get 3-4 auto-wounds per turn from Lethal Hits. You can get 2 squads for the price of 1 Terminator squad. Add a power fist on the Sergeant and a Grenade launcher to at least threaten slightly tougher targets and they are a pretty versatile unit.

 

 

After my last loss ans my op mentioning the combi lieutenant and sticky troops, my new 2000 point lisr has 2 x 5 man intercessors for just this, i will test them out next Thursday.   I also saw the 4 shots each which was a bonus

 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

@Hear da Lamentation - another option may be to increase the points to 1500 for the next game and use that 500 points to add in the anti-tank while still using more of the models you want to use. 

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks for the advice guys, very interesting.

 

Taking what has been said, I'm thinking of this army now.

 

Vindicator

Predator annihilator 3 lascannons

Bjorn

Brutalis Dread (multimelta)

Iron Priest 

Intercessors x 5 

Intercessors x 5

Combi Lieutenant

5 fenrisian wolves

 20 points left )I'm thinking Wolf Touched on IP to help him keep up with tanks/dreads if needed.

 

Plan would be to keep the mech together towards the middle of the board, as far back as possible but keeping 1 objective.

Lieutenant hides somewhere holding the second objective - and sits there.

 

Intercessors come in from reserves hopefully round 2 and start shooting up his back field (usually barbagaunts), sticky objectives and then turn fire on any monsters they can get lethal hits on.....

 

The other option is to go even more mech with ....

 

Vindicator

Predator annihilator 3 lascannons

Predator annihilator 3 lascannons

Bjorn

Brutalis Dread (multimelta)

Iron Priest 

Intercessors x 5 

Combi Lieutenant