Berserker Surgeon? Real or Fake.

[Ranulf]

10 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Nah, it doesn't work like that. Something would still be visible somewhere. Source: me, I 3D print things.

Not entirely accurate, I 3D print all the time and I often have zero visible layer lines at 22μm. 
 

Once painted, there’s nothing to indicate it’s a printed mini.

 

Two examples of my printed stuff, raw and painted: 

[Uprising]

If this actually turn out to be real, I want my 8 dollar bill.  

[Joe]

 Probably worth keeping in mind print lines aren't even an indicator an item isn't real - given how many GW products (both resin and plastic) have visible lines on their product pages.

[Ranulf]

6 minutes ago, Joe said:

 Probably worth keeping in mind print lines aren't even an indicator an item isn't real - given how many GW products (both resin and plastic) have visible lines on their product pages.

Just addressing the misconception that 3D printed resin models have to have discernible layer lines. 
 

With experience and the right equipment it can be avoided. Which makes the extreme layer lines on some of GW’s studio miniatures a sad state of affairs.

[01RTB01]

I honestly find it staggering that people are still questioning if this is legit. 

[Dark Shepherd]

The apron makes me think its fake, a world eater not wanting to get blood on himself would be like a space wolf using deoderant

[phandaal]

7 minutes ago, Ranulf said:

Not entirely accurate, I 3D print all the time and I often have zero visible layer lines at 22μm. 
 

Once painted, there’s nothing to indicate it’s a printed mini.

 

Two examples of my printed stuff, raw and painted: 

 

These are awesome! Always like to see cool prints like this. Is that Korps guy one of the bodies from Tiny Legend? Your skill puts mine to shame and then some. 

[NorthernUltramarines]

The only thing that makes me feel like it could be fake is simply how off certain parts look. Comparing it to the latest World Eaters Character makes it look like a sculpt that would've come out 15 years ago.

 

 

The slaughter just looks so much cleaner and more 'Modern GW'. The cloth on the surgeon apron ends at too rounded a point, the skull looks like it's lacking detail, the left arm has a weird joint to the body, and the symbols look like they're from an older less detailed kit. I look at it compared to any other world eaters kit and it just looks 'off'. I could be absolutely blind to the fact that it's real but it doesn't look like it fits in with the current range to me, I just feel that the modelling team would do something more dramatic.

 

Can't wait to see if we ever get an official confirmation!

[Mogger351]

Tbh most of the World Eaters "range" as someone who was excited for them, looks really anachronistic against the rest of the game.

 

Even just compare the eightbound and possessed, the latter has much more modern design prompts and styles.

 

I personally think WE are intentionally very 90s looking overall.

Edited 23 hours ago by Mogger351

[TheMawr]

15 minutes ago, NorthernUltramarines said:

The only thing that makes me feel like it could be fake is simply how off certain parts look. Comparing it to the latest World Eaters Character makes it look like a sculpt that would've come out 15 years ago.

 

 

The slaughter just looks so much cleaner and more 'Modern GW'. The cloth on the surgeon apron ends at too rounded a point, the skull looks like it's lacking detail, the left arm has a weird joint to the body, and the symbols look like they're from an older less detailed kit. I look at it compared to any other world eaters kit and it just looks 'off'. I could be absolutely blind to the fact that it's real but it doesn't look like it fits in with the current range to me, I just feel that the modelling team would do something more dramatic.

 

Can't wait to see if we ever get an official confirmation!

 

Only meant as an argument in a vacuum on this matter, not in the broader spectrum of this topic. 

 

But it isnt the first deviation from chaos-norms this year, both in who painted the miniature, who concepted it and who sculpted it.

 

While this one is much much more succesfully received :

There is a lot of similar deviations here comparable with the berzerker-surgeon. When you look beyond the topic its very clean in details, its really dialing down to a same level of less is more principle wich is overshadowed here through a really good paintjob and a brilliant core concept. ( though also less stuck together posing... but looking at the surgeon it could be the right arm connecting to the chest mostly.. a simple matter of an inexperience mpk sculptor needing to include options, so if real, its quite possible the right arm has options.)

 

Another release are these ( I posted the leader's picture earlier )

 

 

Another go at cleaner chaos, deviating far from established stylings.

 

With wich I mean while for me it was/is also the strongest indicator its not an actual GW miniature ( because there are so many options to go OTT ) it isnt necessarily a true argument. Exceptions already exist.

 

Bot examples remind me of this bezerker-surgeon, albeit in different ways. ( idea behind it on the former, execution on the latter.)

[NorthernUltramarines]

7 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

 

Only meant as an argument in a vacuum on this matter, not in the broader spectrum of this topic. 

 

But it isnt the first deviation from chaos-norms this year, both in who painted the miniature, who concepted it and who sculpted it.

 

While this one is much much more succesfully received :

There is a lot of similar deviations here comparable with the berzerker-surgeon. When you look beyond the topic its very clean in details, its really dialing down to a same level of less is more principle wich is overshadowed here through a really good paintjob and a brilliant core concept. ( though also less stuck together posing... but looking at the surgeon it could be the right arm connecting to the chest mostly.. a simple matter of an inexperience mpk sculptor needing to include options, so if real, its quite possible the right arm has options.)

 

Another release are these ( I posted the leader's picture earlier )

 

 

Another go at cleaner chaos, deviating far from established stylings.

 

With wich I mean while for me it was/is also the strongest indicator its not an actual GW miniature ( because there are so many options to go OTT ) it isnt necessarily a true argument. Exceptions already exist.

 

Bot examples remind me of this bezerker-surgeon, albeit in different ways. ( idea behind it on the former, execution on the latter.)

 

Really good points! It's the first time a leaked model has ever had me really questioning it's validity, and you've made me doubt myself even more now. Entirely split 50/50 on this being real or just a very good 3D print job.

[Fire Golem]

Seriously can the doubters explain this? It’s identical. 

[Valkyrion]

There's too many sticky out bits - the protruding pads, the bunny ears, the back pack balls, the surgical stuff. 

I think it'll look alright with arm swaps?  Lose the bare arms and give it standard rounded pads?

[HeadlessCross]

Two bare arms like that makes him look scrawny for some reason. I think that's been my main issue with him. 

[TwinOcted]

There's also the possibility this was designed years ago, and GW were waiting for the "right time" to release it.  That's happened a lot in the past.

[Nephaston]

Seeing as one can simply AI generate minis, transfer them to 3D and just print them nowadays, I'm disinclined to believe this one is real simply on how it looks, especially the dinky saw teeth on the chain-hand, and the round edges of the leather bits.

[Tastyfish]

4 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Nah, it doesn't work like that. Something would still be visible somewhere. Source: me, I 3D print things.

You may be right - someone (Xttz) over at Dakka zoomed in.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Tastyfish

[SvenIronhand]

Yeah, that's somebody's 3d Print.  

[phandaal]

19 minutes ago, Tastyfish said:

You may be right - someone (Xttz) over at Dakka zoomed in.

 

 

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. Totally missed that the first time looking at it, so I assumed it had to be non printed. Those are definitely layer lines. Thanks!

[Scribe]

We have gotten to the point fakes are now being 3d printed and painted.

 

What is this timeline.

[TheMawr]

6 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Seeing as one can simply AI generate minis, transfer them to 3D and just print them nowadays, I'm disinclined to believe this one is real simply on how it looks, especially the dinky saw teeth on the chain-hand, and the round edges of the leather bits.

 

It all isnt so simple as people think though, there is magic ascribed to AI that it simply doesnt have.

I know that if AI can generate a convincing video with voice of a celebrity than it is easy to think it could do anything, but, current prediction based AI needs the resources to generate the prediction from, and it has this alot for celebrities... even a lesser known celebrity will have more available data to generate from.. its the same with text and art.
 

From the get go it does not have the resources to generate this as a 3D sculpt from, you'd need to feed and train it, this goes well beyond free and public AI and simply entering some promts and it probably comes with a price tag.. not something you'd do as a hoax. Im not using this to discredit a 3D sculpt, just that this is definitely not an AI generated 3D sculpt.

 

As pointed out there is also the case of the rumor engine, now, ofcourse someone 3D sculpting this could have wanted to play a joke and decided to include it in their 3D sculpt.
Problem is, there is only 2 weeks between the rumor engine and the final painted miniature and the photoshopped box picture leaking.
Not impossible, but it does make it more improbable. ( and ofcourse, just adding the rumor engine inspired part to an already 3d sculpted berzerker-surgeon miniature for the hoax IS a possibility.)

 

So, easy/free AI is completely discarded, 100% ( it already was unlikely, its now next to impossible )

 

option A

- Someone put aside all other things in their life to create in 2 weeks time a hoax based on a rather mundane rumor engine ( I mean if it was an exodite after decennia, or something that could hint at a primarch, I could have seen someone getting inspired to do a full hoax effort.) but despite the skill involved with mimicking the RE 1 for 1, goes for a subpar variant.

 

option B

- GW having made a not-so-great berzerker-surgeon and someone got their hands on it an leaked it.

 

Wich of the two is more likely ? Wich of the two has actually happened before in the past ?.. sometimes the simpler answer is the answer.

 

 

However
The person mentioning earlier the paintjob being similar has a point. the highlighted painted on scratch right under the key is visible in both the box, and the new picture. It does seem the same painted miniature with the differences being due to photography/picture adjustments or they are photographed at 2 different stages.

 

if in the above option B applies, then the second leak would actually need to be from the studio painter, not from the same person leaking the box.. not impossible at all, but also not likely, thats a huge NDA risk... however it is the answer that makes most sense. Now some will probably say this painted mini is not studio standard.. and I cannot comment on that, despite being an artist ... I have difficulty distinguishing red qualities ( though Im not color blind.) and to my eyes, it looks the same standard as the WE painted master of executions.

 

There is a very weird option C here ( a variant of option A );

The miniature is real, the box picture is not. 

 

There have regularilily been unreleased sprues that accidentally got into the wild, and I can only assume that not everyone will post it when that happens.. lets say it happens two or three times more often than we are aware of on the internet, there are many reasons to not spread it.. alot of people wont bother or arent active online, there would also be some people who would fear of repercussions/having to return the sprue.

 

This person might belong to the latter, happily keeping his surgeon for himself, but upon seeing the rumor engine pop up decides to play an anonymous joke with the miniature he has painted. This is realistic in the 2 weeks timeframe between rumor engine and the box-leak.

 

Food for thought on all sides, though Im leaning towards real. ( after all.. this isnt exactly a year where GW has a close lid on their leaks )

 

----

 

Going for the premise that it is real after all, its interesting.. because I think it could mean one of two things ( me and my options ) :

World eaters are very early in 11th edition, wich might suck as the early codexes after the starterboxes tend to get solo releases ( incidentally, they also get the more experimental miniature releases as a solo release.) but thats still almost a year away from the rumor engine, wich isnt as regular the case with normal releases as people think. ( but it did happen to the 10th edition necron release.)

 

or the more interesting, this too is part of the EoE releases. between rumors and reveals that havent been rumors ( tau twins, tyranid warrior prime.) this could be gearing up into a, there is something new for almost every faction ordeal, psychic awakening style, in the next 6 months. But that branches into other topics.

 

[TheMawr]

34 minutes ago, Tastyfish said:

You may be right - someone (Xttz) over at Dakka zoomed in.

 

 

 

More devils advocateness

Studio paintjobs sometimes have it too ( here visible on her back skirt and the collar on the right as well.

 

It does discredit my option C above, but it doesnt discredit option B.

 

to summarise option B ( if you dont want to read all my text )

 

-- first picture leak of accidental received box
-- second picture wip leak from the studio painter who painted the miniature on the box.

[TheMawr]

But to complete my devils advocate look at all sides, I can believe almost everything we see being real

 

But this will remain the thing that will not turn me into a full believer

 

 

Its a simple thing compared to all arguments.. but the "lego" connection is not how GW has made kits in over a decade afaik. Even if there has to be room made for options. ( though the arm itself looks much less whimpy as I first thought, there is that.) a complete lack of spacemarine elements on the chest side is also weird, even if it where to be a bad sculpt.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by TheMawr

[Mogger351]

You could tell me that all of the WE release bar angron was meant to drop with Khârn in 7th and I'd say it seems reasonable. This guy falls into that category. I am now on the fake train, but I wouldn't surprised pikachu exactly if it was a real yet bad mini and we've seen the pre production.

[son of the forest]

2 hours ago, Fire Golem said:

Seriously can the doubters explain this? It’s identical. 

The claw looks like a good copy but the lower part of the arm looks a lot chunkier and off on the mini