Rules questions regarding assault intersessors

[Beef]

Just a newbie question.  Having played 3 games now with my wolves over the last few months  ( i haven't played since 5th edition) i wanted to have skyclaws but as the SW codex does not have this i have made up a 10 man assault intercessor squad with jump packs.  my question is am i correct in assuming they do not benefit from SW rules as they are from the space marine codex.

 

Also next question i take it i dont need opponent permission to use them.

 

and finally is there a way to make them similar to blood claws rules wise by using strategms or CP points or something to give them something similar to blood claws advance and charge?

 

Also is there some handy little guide which lists things like rules for critical hits, sustained, and others.

 

Thanks

[Karhedron]

OK, the answer to the Skyclaw Jump Assault Intercessor question is straightforward but it depends on what you mean by "Space Wolf rules". Units get layers of special rules and which rules are in effect depend on which Detachment you are running. You are not restricted to running just Space Wolf Detachments, you can run Space Wolf units in a Gladius Strike Force detachment if you wish.

 

Let's assume you are running a Saga of the Beastslayer Detachment (as it is my favourite), then your Jump Assault Intercessors would benefit from the following rules:

 

Faction rules:            Oath of Moment

Detachment Rules:   Legendary Slayers

Unit Rules:                Hammer of Wrath

Stratagems:              Thunderous Pursuit, Pinning Fire

 

So they can benefit from Space Wolf rules such as the Legendary Slayers rule because Legendary Slayers targets Adeptus Astartes models. However if you were running Saga of the Hunter, they would not benefit because that Detachment specifies Space Wolves units (which Jump Assault Intercessors are not).

 

The use of Keywords is very important in 10th as most abilities and interactions trigger from the Keywords. Being a Space Wolf army does not automatically convey the Space Wolves keyword, in fact adding Keywords is quite uncommon (apart from some like Character).

 

What this means in practice is that the best Detachment for you depends on the units you want to run. If you want a Space Wolves army with plenty of units drawn from vanilla codex then Saga of the Beastslayer is a good choice. If you want to run an army heavy on classic Space Wolf units then Saga of the Hunter works well. If you want a fast moving Detachment with lots of Thunderwolves and Wulfen then you might actually be best off with the Stormlance Detachment.

 

I hope that this answers your question and also explains why the answer is the way it is.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Beef said:

Also next question i take it i dont need opponent permission to use them.

 

That is correct. They are fully official rules and you do not need permission to take anything

  

3 hours ago, Beef said:

and finally is there a way to make them similar to blood claws rules wise by using strategms or CP points or something to give them something similar to blood claws advance and charge?

 

The only way to do this is probably in the Stormlance Detachment which provides Advance + Charge and Fallback + Charge as the default Detachment rule. You will miss out on the Wolf flavoured Enhancements and Stratagems though.

 

3 hours ago, Beef said:

Also is there some handy little guide which lists things like rules for critical hits, sustained, and others.

 

Weapon abilities are on Pages 25-28 of the core rules which GW provide as a free PDF.

 

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/warhammer40000_core&key_corerules_eng_24.09-5xfayxjekm.pdf

 

There is a 1-page cheat sheet here which is not official but is very handy.

 

[TiguriusX]

The SW codex is in an awkward spot so be prepared for lots of trial and error.

 

-We are a melee army but our stuff is mostly S5 (horrible in a meta with T10+)

-We are a melee army but we don't have advance and charge unless we use gladius/stormlance detachments (which sucks b/c we don't use our SW specific detachments)

-We are a melee army but many of our units have a minimum size that is too large and we can't take advantage of the cheap transports (BCs and GHs can't use impulsors)

 

[Karhedron]

@TiguriusX makes some valid points but I have had a lot of success running mostly melee wolves.

 

Beastslayer gives us Lethal Hits across the board. Even Blood Claws will put 6-7 automatic Wounds against any target with that rule (more with OOM) and you still get to fish for 6s to Wound, even against T10+ targets.

 

Blood Claws get Advance + Charge built in, they are also the cheapest Space Marine body in the game which is fun if you want to try spamming a power armoured horde.

 

Claws and Hunters can't fit in an Impulsor but Headtakers with a Wolf Priest can. +1 to Wound and reviving a fallen model each turn is a strong combo on an elite unit and gives them the best rules of both Chaplain and Apothecary.

 

My caveat is that I don't play competitive tournaments like Brother @TiguriusX but I have won a lot of games with the new Codex and they do feel properly "wolfy".

[DanPesci]

Quote

We are a melee army but many of our units have a minimum size that is too large and we can't take advantage of the cheap transports (BCs and GHs can't use impulsors)

 

 

This I think is my main issue with the new codex (theres others but I wont list out here). Even if we could fit inside impulors etc i would never buy one (each to their own), but the fact they took rhinos/razorbacks away from Grey Hunters was just horrible for me, and makes zero sense thematically.

 

Anyway...

 

Things to be aware of (just to follow up on Karhedrons advice which is spot on)

 

Beastslayer detachment rule triggers on all Astartes units

Hunter detachment triggers only on Space Wolves units (but you can use Astartes units to 'outnumber' stuff)

Bold detachment triggers only on Space Wolves character units

 

....However.... all 3 have strats and enhancements that may trigger on SW keyword OR Astartes keyword (Feral Rage and Fenrisian Grit Enhancements in Hunter for example, can be given to any astartes character, not just 'Space Wolves' ones)

 

Also Logans reserve abilities (if looking at him), only trigger on SW units (i got caught out by this my first couple of games when the codex dropped)

 

Legends

The other thing I would mention, although this is gaming group dependant, is that we still have access to legends units in non-tournament settings. There seems to be a prevalence of chat online that only regards 'tournament' as the way to play/build, but many gaming groups still allow legends, especially if you and your opponent agree on this beforehand. Me and my mates all allow legends in games between ourselves because  losing models just cos GW have deleted/retconned them out of the codex releases.

 

You can find all the legends units for SW (including skyclaws) in the faction pack - all have the Space Wolves keyword so work with the new detachments too. Ive been using Skyclaws, Terminator Battle Leaders and Pack Leaders in my last few games and theyre great fun (as a fellow 5th edition wolves player, these units really feel key to what makes wolves wolves for me )

 

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_08-10_warhammer40000_faction_pack_space_wolves-rbnpp17pu1-om7lh5om6f.pdf

 

Skyclaws have reroll charges and +1 to hit on the charge built in (not as good as Adv+charge although can really help when coming in from deep strike), and if you attach a jump captain to them (cough Jump WOLF LORD lol), they get a free strat a turn (which you can use to rapid ingress) and +1S the turn they charge. And they get more special weapons than vanilla jump intercessors - overall feeling a bit more unique (as our units SHOULD do lol)

 

Quote

We are a melee army but we don't have advance and charge unless we use gladius/stormlance detachments 

 

BClaws have it built in and you can stick Ragnar in a brick of headtakers to give it to them, potentially thats 7 units with adv and charge if you went crazy with the BC.

 

Quote

My caveat is that I don't play competitive tournaments like Brother @TiguriusX but I have won a lot of games with the new Codex and they do feel properly "wolfy".

 

Same here, ive lost some and won some but you can definitely run CC wolves to ok effect, just dont expect to sweep tournaments with them.

[Beef]

So further from this question i plan to run 2x 5 man intercessor squads to sticky my home objectives i also plan on running a combi lieutenant.  My question is as the lieutenant has scout how best should i use him? should i try and get him to a middle objective or one in my opp deployment?  i have no clue how i should run him.

 

Thanks 

[TiguriusX]

20 minutes ago, Beef said:

So further from this question i plan to run 2x 5 man intercessor squads to sticky my home objectives i also plan on running a combi lieutenant.  My question is as the lieutenant has scout how best should i use him? should i try and get him to a middle objective or one in my opp deployment?  i have no clue how i should run him.

 

Thanks 

The combi LT is usually left on your home objective or your safe expansion objective 

 

Lone op and a reactive move keep him alive against most things but against certain armies you hide him in the rear

 

Sometimes I just use him to zone out my back corner (when home is stickied)

 

The reroll 1s to wound buff is not worth losing the Combi LT early in the game

[DemonGSides]

I would Infiltrate (Not scout, as scout is limiting whereas Infiltrate can kinda go anywhere) it somewhere where he can be safe but also impact the game.  He's great at doing actions and not so good at doing damage, so it's about keeping him hidden/safe to do missions with moreso than it is to bring him to deal damage.

 

If you're already camping home objectives with Intercessors, then he's sort of less useful but can still be useful by opening up table quarters for scoring while being really small footprint.  But he's gotta hide.

[Beef]

Thanks for both answers above,   I don't know why i though he was supposed to be used for securing objectives in the opponents tale side.  This has cleared up my confusion. 

[TiguriusX]

45 minutes ago, Beef said:

Thanks for both answers above,   I don't know why i though he was supposed to be used for securing objectives in the opponents tale side.  This has cleared up my confusion. 

Side note on list building

 

2 Intercessors and Combi LT is redundant

 

1 Intercessor is good for sticky and move in an aggressive list

 

Combi LT camping home objective means you can even skip Intercessors altogether

 

2+1 not recommended 

1+1 is OK

0+1 is common

[Beef]

1 hour ago, TiguriusX said:

Side note on list building

 

2 Intercessors and Combi LT is redundant

 

1 Intercessor is good for sticky and move in an aggressive list

 

Combi LT camping home objective means you can even skip Intercessors altogether

 

2+1 not recommended 

1+1 is OK

0+1 is common

Agreed, im just experimenting with lists,

 

for my next game im looking at playing with this list (im just playing with stuff i am painting, not looking for killer lists at the moment.  a quick question on my list can the outriders fire their heavy bolt pistol along with the twin bolt rifle?

 

Space Marines

Space Wolves

Strike Force (2000 points)

Saga of the Beastslayer

 

 

CHARACTERS

 

Bjorn the Fell-Handed (170 points)

  • 1x Assault cannon

    1x Heavy flamer

    1x Trueclaw

 

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (70 points)

  • 1x Combi-weapon

    1x Paired combat blades

 

Ragnar Blackmane (100 points)

  • Warlord

  • 1x Bolt Pistol

    1x Frostfang

 

 

BATTLELINE

 

Blood Claws (135 points)

  • 1x Blood Claw Pack Leader

    • 1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power weapon

  • 9x Blood Claw

    • 9x Astartes chainsword

      9x Bolt pistol

 

Grey Hunters (180 points)

  • 1x Grey Hunter Pack Leader

    • 1x Bolt pistol

      1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power fist

  • 9x Grey Hunter

    • 9x Astartes chainsword

      9x Bolt carbine

      9x Bolt pistol

 

Grey Hunters (180 points)

  • 1x Grey Hunter Pack Leader

    • 1x Bolt pistol

      1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power fist

  • 9x Grey Hunter

    • 9x Astartes chainsword

      9x Bolt carbine

      9x Bolt pistol

 

Intercessor Squad (80 points)

  • 1x Intercessor Sergeant

    • 1x Bolt pistol

      1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power fist

  • 4x Intercessor

    • 1x Astartes grenade launcher

      4x Bolt pistol

      4x Bolt rifle

      4x Close combat weapon

 

Intercessor Squad (80 points)

  • 1x Intercessor Sergeant

    • 1x Bolt pistol

      1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power fist

  • 4x Intercessor

    • 1x Astartes grenade launcher

      4x Bolt pistol

      4x Bolt rifle

      4x Close combat weapon

 

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

 

Aggressor Squad (100 points)

  • 1x Aggressor Sergeant

    • 1x Flamestorm gauntlets

      1x Twin power fists

  • 2x Aggressor

    • 2x Flamestorm gauntlets

      2x Twin power fists

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (170 points)

  • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack

    • 1x Plasma pistol

      1x Power fist

  • 9x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs

    • 9x Astartes chainsword

      7x Heavy bolt pistol

      2x Plasma pistol

 

Infernus Squad (90 points)

  • 1x Infernus Sergeant

    • 1x Bolt pistol

      1x Close combat weapon

      1x Pyreblaster

  • 4x Infernus Marine

    • 4x Bolt pistol

      4x Close combat weapon

      4x Pyreblaster

 

Invader ATV (60 points)

  • 1x Bolt pistol

    1x Close combat weapon

    1x Onslaught gatling cannon

    1x Twin bolt rifle

 

Outrider Squad (80 points)

  • 1x Outrider Sergeant

    • 1x Astartes chainsword

      1x Heavy bolt pistol

      1x Twin bolt rifle

  • 2x Outrider

    • 2x Astartes chainsword

      2x Heavy bolt pistol

      2x Twin bolt rifle

 

Predator Annihilator (135 points)

  • 1x Armoured tracks

    2x Heavy bolter

    1x Hunter-killer missile

    1x Predator twin lascannon

    1x Storm bolter

 

Predator Destructor (140 points)

  • 1x Armoured tracks

    1x Hunter-killer missile

    2x Lascannon

    1x Predator autocannon

    1x Storm bolter

 

Whirlwind (190 points)

  • 1x Armoured tracks

    1x Whirlwind vengeance launcher

 

 

 

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Beef said:

for my next game im looking at playing with this list (im just playing with stuff i am painting, not looking for killer lists at the moment.  a quick question on my list can the outriders fire their heavy bolt pistol along with the twin bolt rifle?

 

Unfortunately not. Models may fire all their Pistol weapons or all their non-pistol weapons but may not fire a mix of pistol and non-pistol.

[Beef]

Ok so i played a 2K game yesterday with the list above against orks.  Fair to say Ragnar and Ghaz got into it and Ragnar came out on top.  1st time using a whirlwind and it was actually really good.  My opponent was also new to the gaming side of 40K so it was little bit like the blind leading the blind. Started at 7pm and finished at 11pm (we only managed upto 2.5 turns and ran out of time because we were checking things)   on the bright side each time i play i remember more rules and abilities of my army.  the 2  5 man interssor squads did good for sticky objectives and moving off however the combni leitenet spend the game moving to my rear objective in my turn and then running away on the ork players turn as he had parked his squiggothwaggon thing near the objective which had orks inside.  thus not scoring any objective points for me.

 

Also i forgot to put 1 grey hunter squad on the table, i completely forgot about them and only remembered when i was packing up

 

So my new question are:- in the dice off for 1st turn the winner (ie higher dice roll) goes first.  (i thought winner could choose) because i ended up going first which led to problem or question no 2.

 

Even though i was on 3 objectives by the end of my first turn i didnt get any points (although as im writing this the answer is coming into my mind) on my next turn i get points for any objectives i still  hold.  any recommendations for good YouTube tutorials for this. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Beef

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

You don't get to choose to go second if you "win" the roll off in this chapter approved. There have been editions where you could pick if you won the roll off, and from my understanding that is the type of rule that they could change with the next chapter approved pack so it's one of those rules that I always expect to change.

 

Objective scoring can be pretty weird. For primary objective you can't score objectives on turn 1, and then you from turn two onwords you tally up objectives that you control during your command phase (before movement) to figure out the score. The exception is on turn 5 the player that went second gets to score their objectives at the end of the battle round (to make up for the disadvantage of going second).

 

Off the top of my head I think most secondary objectives that require you to control an objective are scored as soon you control the objective.

 

I haven't seen any videos that really cover these well. But the chapter approved cards come with a step by step list for starting the game, and the cards are pretty clear about when you score.