3.0: failed or not?

[Ahzek451]

I also feels very apparent that it goes something like: 

Very vocal Horus Heresy fans: "We want blue triangle, and make red circle better, we like red circle".
GW: "We know better and know what you really want, here is yellow square and we eliminated red circle and added wavey purple lines". 

Edited July 23 by Ahzek451

[Razorblade]

22 hours ago, Brofist said:

I'm really surprised they moved away from the MSU tax from 1.0. Coming from old 40k to HH 1.0 that tax was there for a reason: discourage small units (with some exceptions). It really helped with said flavor. I'm increasingly of the opinion that the new rules writers didn't ever play or really understand the original game.

Sergeant tax is still a thing on most units and in 2e I think that was actually unnecessary because you had every incentive to run large units. Of course they removed those in 3E and added a lot of reasons not to run large units in the form of their d t status mechanic but I don't think they realize that.

Edited July 24 by Razorblade

[Mr Farson]

On 7/23/2026 at 3:54 PM, MARK0SIAN said:

I think this is a good point actually and it’d never occurred to me before. It’s been 9 Years since mainstream 40k’s rules bore any similarity to HH 1.0’s rules. It’s quite feasible that some of these designers never played pre 8th edition 40K so even if they did play HH 1.0 in the last 9 years they wouldn’t understand what made it distinct and popular compared to 40k. I wonder if this goes some way to explaining some of their choices?

 

This is something I've thought about a lot when it comes to 3.0 since it dropped. The rules designers have little experience of 3rd - 7th ed 40k and it shows, they pushed out a weird hybrid of classic and modern 40k 

[Brother Sutek]

On 7/26/2026 at 7:56 AM, Mr Farson said:

 

This is something I've thought about a lot when it comes to 3.0 since it dropped. The rules designers have little experience of 3rd - 7th ed 40k and it shows, they pushed out a weird hybrid of classic and modern 40k 

I wouldn't have had a problem with this except I went to 30k to get away from modern 40k!

[Corswain]

So nothing spectacular in the annual report, perhaps unsurprisingly. The line on this being just the start of the Heresy offer is good though and suggests that they've seen enough return on investment to continue developing the range. 

[Hfran Morkai]

3 hours ago, Corswain said:

So nothing spectacular in the annual report, perhaps unsurprisingly. The line on this being just the start of the Heresy offer is good though and suggests that they've seen enough return on investment to continue developing the range. 

 

C'mon Seekers/Recon/Tartaros/Missing Cataphractii weapons/Khan on bike.

 

And to be even more selfish, updated Grey Slayer kit (and any other Legions that have unique Troops stuff going on, Legion Elites would be nice too but I want to work on the bulk of my force right now). 

[Gorgoff]

4 hours ago, Hfran Morkai said:

 

C'mon Khan on bike.

He doesn't even have rules for a bike anymore. 

[Hfran Morkai]

19 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

He doesn't even have rules for a bike anymore. 

 

That's what I get for not having the actual books yet.

 

Disappointing for the Scars. *Sad jetbike noises*

[Brother Sutek]

On 7/29/2026 at 3:36 AM, Gorgoff said:

He doesn't even have rules for a bike anymore. 

That has been one of the weirdest choices they have made IMO. Make a very fluffy and cool idea and promise a model for it...eventually.  Ignore said thing for a decade and then quietly remove the choice as there aren't enough WS players to make actually producing 

Edited July 31 by Brother Sutek
Spelling

[Hfran Morkai]

I guess maybe they're still working on one and will release rules in a journal when they finally get the model out?

 

They did say they were planning on doing another sculpture of each of the Primarchs years ago to represent them elsewhere in the Heresy and it makes sense for him to be on his bike.

[Brother Sutek]

2 hours ago, Hfran Morkai said:

I guess maybe they're still working on one and will release rules in a journal when they finally get the model out?

 

They did say they were planning on doing another sculpture of each of the Primarchs years ago to represent them elsewhere in the Heresy and it makes sense for him to be on his bike.

I would love to see that and it would be a hopeful thing. That being said I doubt it. I truly desire to be wrong on this.

[Gorgoff]

I don't even play White Scars and wanna Khan on his bike but alas that is highly unlikely. 

Still possible in a Journal but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[Marshal Loss]

Yeah I could see Khan on bike appearing in a White Scars legion-specific journal, and we know they want to do those, but with the resin character series seemingly dead and the pace of journal releases being what it is I'm not holding my breath for legion journals anytime soon. 

[N1SB]

On 7/29/2026 at 7:11 AM, Corswain said:

So nothing spectacular in the annual report, perhaps unsurprisingly. The line on this being just the start of the Heresy offer is good though and suggests that they've seen enough return on investment to continue developing the range. 

 

Nothing spectacular is exactly right, and it's after a spectacular year last year when Space Marine II came out that they even had a Titus-themed starter set...and of course a new AoS with the popular Spearhead mode came out.  So keeping pace and not dragging things down is already quite an achievement.  I had this handy so I'll post it here:

 

 

• Trade means FLGS
• Retail means Warhammer Stores
• Online means warhammer.com

Compared to last year, Trade i.e. FLGSs grew especially fast, THAT's the real hero this year.  If 30k was the real hero, you'd see that same growth everywhere, because all these sales channels are selling the same products.  Instead, outside of Trade, growth is just in-line with pricing updates/inflation.

 

The ONLY nitipicky negative is everyone expects Warhammer to be constantly spectacular now.  You guys know what I mean.  Hype is the 1st step towards disappointment.

[No Foes Remain]

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

 

Nothing spectacular is exactly right, and it's after a spectacular year last year when Space Marine II came out that they even had a Titus-themed starter set...and of course a new AoS with the popular Spearhead mode came out.  So keeping pace and not dragging things down is already quite an achievement.  I had this handy so I'll post it here:

 

 

• Trade means FLGS
• Retail means Warhammer Stores
• Online means warhammer.com

Compared to last year, Trade i.e. FLGSs grew especially fast, THAT's the real hero this year.  If 30k was the real hero, you'd see that same growth everywhere, because all these sales channels are selling the same products.  Instead, outside of Trade, growth is just in-line with pricing updates/inflation.

 

The ONLY nitipicky negative is everyone expects Warhammer to be constantly spectacular now.  You guys know what I mean.  Hype is the 1st step towards disappointment.

 

Is there any visible difference from 3.0's release timing to 2.0's?

[Corswain]

6 hours ago, N1SB said:

 

Nothing spectacular is exactly right, and it's after a spectacular year last year when Space Marine II came out that they even had a Titus-themed starter set...and of course a new AoS with the popular Spearhead mode came out.  So keeping pace and not dragging things down is already quite an achievement.  I had this handy so I'll post it here:

 

 

• Trade means FLGS
• Retail means Warhammer Stores
• Online means warhammer.com

Compared to last year, Trade i.e. FLGSs grew especially fast, THAT's the real hero this year.  If 30k was the real hero, you'd see that same growth everywhere, because all these sales channels are selling the same products.  Instead, outside of Trade, growth is just in-line with pricing updates/inflation.

 

The ONLY nitipicky negative is everyone expects Warhammer to be constantly spectacular now.  You guys know what I mean.  Hype is the 1st step towards disappointment.

You misunderstand but that's my fault, sorry. I've given the wrong impression and spectacular isn't the right word. I guess I just mean that there isn't a lot of info that is relevant to the context of this thread. Previous reports have maybe mentioned good launches or challenges and there is nothing like that here, just a mention of what Heresy is and the just getting started comment.

 

[N1SB]

8 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

 

Is there any visible difference from 3.0's release timing to 2.0's?

 

I do think HH 2.0 got a clearer sales bump than HH 3.0, but mainly because the year before 2.0 was not exceptional...I mean that both in hyperbolically and technically, like Space Marine II was an exception, a one-time event.  40k is the clear leader, AoS is the 2nd as it is their fantasy line, while HH remains the little brother, so the differences between 2.0 and 3.0 are fuzzier.

 

4 hours ago, Corswain said:

You misunderstand but that's my fault, sorry. I've given the wrong impression and spectacular isn't the right word. I guess I just mean that there isn't a lot of info that is relevant to the context of this thread. Previous reports have maybe mentioned good launches or challenges and there is nothing like that here, just a mention of what Heresy is and the just getting started comment.

 

Nono, there's no fault here, because we think we're ultimately agreed.  Like nothing significant, nothing stand out, neither good NOR bad, like it just is.

 

That's what the sales figures suggested.  Put another way, the wave of popularity from video games or Amazon episodes probably had more impact than HH.

 

Actually, that in itself may be an issue, like things outside GW influence Warhammer than what GW can do internally.  Ah, that's a conversation for elsewhere.

 

Back on topic, I've got to get the Zone Mortalis book, amirite!?  And finish my Loyalist Luna Wolves.

[Valkyrion]

Do the accounts break down which systems generate which income?

It's widely accepted that 40k is the highest earner, but is it actually stated anywhere? 

[N1SB]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

Do the accounts break down which systems generate which income?

It's widely accepted that 40k is the highest earner, but is it actually stated anywhere? 

 

Perfect timing, was just going to add a thing.  GW does not break down revenue by product, only by sales channels, regions, etc.

 

However, we can tell by another measure: timing.  We know when 40k editions came out.  Every time, it's a vertical line from the period before.

 

The exception was the year before, an AoS year...which was also when Space Marine II came out.  Though not a 40k year, it kinda became one.

 

Back to HH 3.0.  The 1st Half Year core revenue (i.e. GW's own stuff, not including royalties from video games) which goes to the end Nov, GW made £316.1m.  So you know how GW always launches in the summer?  This 1st Half is always a pretty good tell on whatever the launch product that year performed.  2nd Half, which includes Christmas and the Maelstrom campaign and the new Red Corsairs, went up to £626.8, which is only an extra £310.7...or it's a WEAKER 2nd Half.  That rarely happens.

 

So to HH 3.0's credit, it did pretty decent OR AT LEAST BETTER than what came out during the Christmas time and beyond.

[Brofist]

I mean we're mostly just reading tea leaves. A public company is going to try hard to avoid saying anything negative to investors and we're not getting any specific breakdowns. Not to minimize some of your pretty solid observations. IIRC AoS 1.0, which they admitted was a flop, had pretty lightly wording in their financials. Makes you wonder how big a flop something has to be to warrant any real press. Maybe none in today's world.

  

On 7/28/2026 at 3:32 AM, Brother Sutek said:

I wouldn't have had a problem with this except I went to 30k to get away from modern 40k!

 

Yep. That's most of us. Again, it highlights a basic misunderstanding of the product and the core players. Not to say they can't change that with time, but if that's the plan... trying to appeal to us with all the nostalgia bait doesn't make sense either.

Edited August 4 by Brofist

[Mr Farson]

There's a thread up on Reddit currently, a poll of player numbers open for 7 days for what edition people are playing. 3.0 has about 320 respondents while 2.0 is sitting at 157. It's been consistent over the last three days or so 2.0 has about half the share of players 

 

That's an insane stat for a Reddit that is completely focussed on the current edition. I genuinely don't see how gw is able to resolve this without alienating either portion of its customer base. 

[TheTrans]

Look, any 'current' edition will get an unfair metric. I'd also probably question the veracity of any Reddit poll.

Not to mention, I'd love to know how many are  'I'm trawling the internet procrastinating about what colour choice I am doing before I start making any models' as opposed to 'I played a game last night at a FLGS' in those votes .

Edited August 4 by TheTrans

[Hfran Morkai]

1 hour ago, TheTrans said:

Not to mention, I'd love to know how many are  'I'm trawling the internet procrastinating about what colour choice I am doing before I start making any models' as opposed to 'I played a game last night at a FLGS' in those votes .

 

I've procrastinated two editions already...

 

Well I was making headway in first, then they released upscaled Marines and I then wanted to wait until MkIV.

 

 

Now I'm gearing up, need to order some bits to Sixth the stuff I have up, bases and then I can look at breaking out the clippers. 

[Rusted Boltgun]

16 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Look, any 'current' edition will get an unfair metric. I'd also probably question the veracity of any Reddit poll.

Not to mention, I'd love to know how many are  'I'm trawling the internet procrastinating about what colour choice I am doing before I start making any models' as opposed to 'I played a game last night at a FLGS' in those votes .

 

I didn't vote in the Reddit poll but I am in the procrastination camp.

AoD, Saturnine, two Astartes Battles Groups and a Maximus box. Not one model painted.

 

I've gone full circle, I'm back to my teenage days of writing out army lists on sheets of A4. Lists I never build or play...

[Razorblade]

18 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Look, any 'current' edition will get an unfair metric. I'd also probably question the veracity of any Reddit poll.

Not to mention, I'd love to know how many are  'I'm trawling the internet procrastinating about what colour choice I am doing before I start making any models' as opposed to 'I played a game last night at a FLGS' in those votes .

Why would the current edition get an unfair metric? 

And of course a reddit poll isn't exactly quality research but it aligns precisely with the sentiment in every public heresy space. And this is far beyond the groaning you get with every edition change in any game. I don't think any incarnation of any gw game has been met with this amount of negativity since AoS first released.