3.0: failed or not?

[TheTrans]

5 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

Did any express any interest in playing 1.0 or was just 2.0 mentioned? And is that something that would be taken account for in future events?

 

I tell you what, I reckon if some one bucked up and ran a 1.0 event down in my area, it would go gang busters! 

[Brofist]

10 hours ago, Shard of Magnus said:

@Brofist Regarding your second bullet…any observations on differences in game time between this year and last?

I feel like my casual HH3 games are still taking slightly longer than in HH2 right now but haven’t played close attention. The first ~6 months was a much more significant impact due to all the changes, more so considering only going 4 turns.

 

I didn't ask about game length, but walking around it was clear games were taking much longer. I've stopped playing entirely, so I honestly don't know what's slowing things down in an edition people said things were more streamlined. I can say that a contributing factor is that the 3.0 ZM rules removed RPs. Love them or hate them, this meant 1500pts was more like 1250pts on the table. We stuck with the old points limit, but should have cut it down. Will do that for 2027.

 

9 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

Did any express any interest in playing 1.0 or was just 2.0 mentioned? And is that something that would be taken account for in future events?

 

One person voted for 1.0.... and that person was me, lol. 2.0 was largely well liked in my community so I'm not really surprised.

 

More people want to see other game systems added into the narrative of our event, with a very big push for Epic/LI. So we'll be doing that instead.

[Stitch5000]

On 3/13/2026 at 2:17 PM, Razorblade said:

Now why on earth would I do that?

Indeed, why would you stop saying that? If you did, all of your other arguments would have no basis. Everything you are saying in built upon you thinking everyone else is a liar if they don't agree with you. 

On 3/13/2026 at 2:17 PM, Razorblade said:

It is very hard to believe that a company notorious for their leaks

Do you know where most GW leaks come from? I'll give you a tip... It isn't people  employed by GW. 

[Razorblade]

28 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Indeed, why would you stop saying that? If you did, all of your other arguments would have no basis. Everything you are saying in built upon you thinking everyone else is a liar if they don't agree with you. 

Do you know where most GW leaks come from? I'll give you a tip... It isn't people  employed by GW. 

So given that you ignored my second question it is now fair to assume that these people do in fact not exist?

My argument, from the start is based on the text that is available for all of us to read. It is you who tries to dismiss all the very valid and easy to check criticism of said text with "trust me bro". Your like one of those conspiracy grifters only you peddle 3E instead of supplements. 

Edited March 17 by Razorblade

[Irate Khornate]

Yeah....I don't know about y'all, but 265$ American for the new custodes set is way too expensive for my taste.

[Xenith]

=][= Lets stop with the back and forth and post dissection please :) Lets keep focus on the game itself and issues therein. =][=

------------------------------

 

Thanks for the stats Brofist - what event was this for again? I agree that games are taking longer - I think this is due to the nonsensical [in the strictest term] weapon profile changes - it's made them hard to memorise (e.g. plasma isnt simply +1S and +1D across the board, 'twin' weapons are not simply 2x shots or rerolls anymore)

[Stitch5000]

1 hour ago, Razorblade said:

So given that you ignored my second question it is now fair to assume that these people do in fact not exist?

No, I'm absolutely not going to reveal them to all and sundry as I'm pretty sure they don't want to be exposed. I know for a fact that a number of them frequent the Warhammer 30k sub-reddit... Maybe ask in there any they will reveal themselves of their own volition? 

If you don't believe the game has playtesters and choose not to take what I have to say in bad faith, that's on you. 

[Darth_Kanade]

For me, 3e is more balanced, but at the cost of sacrificing a lot of flavor. Many special rules have been changed to +-1 modifiers. I really miss 2e, but some units and legion ROW in 2e are too OP and need of points balance. GW has always claimed that HH is a narrative-focused game, but so far, they haven't updated any campaign systems for 3e, which is really disappointing to me.

[Brofist]

11 hours ago, Xenith said:

Thanks for the stats Brofist - what event was this for again? I agree that games are taking longer - I think this is due to the nonsensical [in the strictest term] weapon profile changes - it's made them hard to memorise (e.g. plasma isnt simply +1S and +1D across the board, 'twin' weapons are not simply 2x shots or rerolls anymore)

 

It's for a three day long ZM narrative event- annually in Seattle, WA. I survey players before and after events, plus a touch point mid-year, which is why I'm able to share stats.

[Pacific81]

18 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

No, I'm absolutely not going to reveal them to all and sundry as I'm pretty sure they don't want to be exposed. I know for a fact that a number of them frequent the Warhammer 30k sub-reddit... Maybe ask in there any they will reveal themselves of their own volition? 

If you don't believe the game has playtesters and choose not to take what I have to say in bad faith, that's on you. 

 

I guess this is a good example of how not listing your creatives, your artists, rule-writers, playtesters etc causes consternation within the community.

There is no other company within the industry that cuts off its creatives in that manner (GW themselves didn't used to), and while I appreciate its difficult for a mega-corp to keep any sort of personal touch, I personally find it distasteful. 

 

And it pushes me towards other games, where I *know* those companies have made an effort to produce a good ruleset, and have their names by it, and to try and engage with the community to improve it. I am sure the writers for this game would do the same, but are not permitted to (which is why they will no doubt eventually leave)

[Irate Khornate]

12 hours ago, Darth_Kanade said:

For me, 3e is more balanced, but at the cost of sacrificing a lot of flavor. Many special rules have been changed to +-1 modifiers. I really miss 2e, but some units and legion ROW in 2e are too OP and need of points balance. GW has always claimed that HH is a narrative-focused game, but so far, they haven't updated any campaign systems for 3e, which is really disappointing to me.

 

It wouldn't be the first time we've been gaslighted. Though gaslighted may not be the best word for their current actions.

[LameBeard]

8 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

 

I guess this is a good example of how not listing your creatives, your artists, rule-writers, playtesters etc causes consternation within the community.

There is no other company within the industry that cuts off its creatives in that manner (GW themselves didn't used to), and while I appreciate its difficult for a mega-corp to keep any sort of personal touch, I personally find it distasteful. 

 

And it pushes me towards other games, where I *know* those companies have made an effort to produce a good ruleset, and have their names by it, and to try and engage with the community to improve it. I am sure the writers for this game would do the same, but are not permitted to (which is why they will no doubt eventually leave)

I was at my mum’s house at the weekend, and almost all my teenage Warhammer was cleared out long ago, but there’s still a copy of “Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness”. I was marvelling at the fact every piece of art has a tiny little logo, with a legend up front to show the artist. Those were the days …

 

 

[Razorblade]

12 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

(which is why they will no doubt eventually leave)

It's not like anyone else would want them tough.

[Pacific81]

8 hours ago, Razorblade said:

It's not like anyone else would want them tough.

My guess is that everyone around the 'Nottingham' belt of games companies know who is doing what, for the games designers at least, despite those guys not being credited. The likes of Mantic, Warlord etc are all full of ex-GW staff.

Sam Pearson, who did Warcry for example, and is now involved in work for the new Starcraft game for Archon Studios. James Hewitt (who did Adeptus Titanicus) has done board games for Mantic and the new Fallout Factions game for Modiphius.

 

The irony for me is that a lot of younger games developers will learn their craft with GW, then go on to make really well designed games for other companies that at only 10% of the amount of people will play..

[Razorblade]

2 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

My guess is that everyone around the 'Nottingham' belt of games companies know who is doing what, for the games designers at least, despite those guys not being credited. The likes of Mantic, Warlord etc are all full of ex-GW staff.

Sam Pearson, who did Warcry for example, and is now involved in work for the new Starcraft game for Archon Studios. James Hewitt (who did Adeptus Titanicus) has done board games for Mantic and the new Fallout Factions game for Modiphius.

 

The irony for me is that a lot of younger games developers will learn their craft with GW, then go on to make really well designed games for other companies that at only 10% of the amount of people will play..

The difference being that those games were actually good. Warcry in particular was really a breath of fresh air, I'm not surprised Pearson was coveted elsewhere. I'm not arguing that people don't want GW Writers they obviously do. Just saying no one in their right mind would hire the people responsible for this mess.

[Stitch5000]

11 hours ago, Razorblade said:

It's not like anyone else would want them tough.

Robin Cruddace now works for Warcradle for one. 
 

[Irate Khornate]

15 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Robin Cruddace now works for Warcradle for one. 
 

Thanks for giving the heads up, I'll make sure to avoid that particular company.

 

*For those who might think this is a dig at 3rd edition HH, this is not the case. Robin has a history of bad codexes when GW published the authors in the books. While I'm happy the man has work and can feed his family, I'm not up for dealing with his rules anymore.

Edited March 20 by Irate Khornate

[Stitch5000]

3 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Thanks for giving the heads up, I'll make sure to avoid that particular company.

Just check LinkedIn if you want to find out more! 

[Mr Farson]

My local gw including the staff has gone back to playing 2.0 much to my amusement.

 

Between the two local clubs I attend it's about 50/50 between 2.0 and 3.0 players but overall about a third of players have dipped out completely since 3.0 dropped

[Pacific81]

On 3/19/2026 at 10:17 AM, Razorblade said:

The difference being that those games were actually good. Warcry in particular was really a breath of fresh air, I'm not surprised Pearson was coveted elsewhere. I'm not arguing that people don't want GW Writers they obviously do. Just saying no one in their right mind would hire the people responsible for this mess.

 

Yes I really liked Warcry, it was snappy & easy to play. Not a massive fan of the setting (which was effectively just 800 types of cultist) which I think is why it didnt sell in large volumes, but the game mechanics themselves were well designed by Pearson and Jervis.

 

From my experience of games so far I find Heresy 3.0 'ok'. Its a 3/5 for me if it was a movie/game rating; its pretty soul-less, and is probably the most constipated game I have ever played, but does the expected job of putting marines on a tabletop blasting at each other well enough. The rules also needed editing into a format palatable for human consumption, but I think thats a GW problem with the game's production, not necessarily the fault of the rules writers. Its not got hilarious inbalances or obviously broken rules (from what I can tell) so I wouldn't exclude them on that basis, although I realise a lot of this is subjective!

[Brofist]

New journal has been leaking. Pretty sad state compared to what the old world has been getting. Just a handful of rules and basically nothing new.

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, Brofist said:

New journal has been leaking. Pretty sad state compared to what the old world has been getting. Just a handful of rules and basically nothing new.

 

TOW isn't immune to getting Journals which are thin on crunch either though. The Razing of Westerland only had updated profiles for basic Marauders & Horsemen, plus some Chaos-exclusive Magic Items. Dawn of the Storm Dragon was even thinner, with some Magic Items and an Army of Infamy for Cathay.

 

Edited March 20 by Lord Marshal

[Marshal Loss]

Hopefully there's at least a lot of nice new colour plates, the Saturnine journal was pretty good for that. I appreciate the journal format allows them to release content more regularly but they've largely been pretty uninspiring so far

[Razorblade]

On 3/20/2026 at 6:49 PM, Pacific81 said:

 

Yes I really liked Warcry, it was snappy & easy to play. Not a massive fan of the setting (which was effectively just 800 types of cultist) which I think is why it didnt sell in large volumes, but the game mechanics themselves were well designed by Pearson and Jervis.

 

From my experience of games so far I find Heresy 3.0 'ok'. Its a 3/5 for me if it was a movie/game rating; its pretty soul-less, and is probably the most constipated game I have ever played, but does the expected job of putting marines on a tabletop blasting at each other well enough. The rules also needed editing into a format palatable for human consumption, but I think thats a GW problem with the game's production, not necessarily the fault of the rules writers. Its not got hilarious inbalances or obviously broken rules (from what I can tell) so I wouldn't exclude them on that basis, although I realise a lot of this is subjective!

I loved how weird they got with their cultists but definitely not the most wide-appeal choice of setting indeed. 

I don't think you can blame GW for the rules language, their big flagship game has readable rules after all. 

I think balance in 3E is a mirage. Most of 2Es Problem units are gone (then again aimple and effective house rules were already in place for them at most events) and the legion list doesn't have any outrageously overpowered units bit at the same time it also really doesn't have a lot of good/solid/playable-without-feeling-bad units. So yes the overpowered units are gone but at the same time tge roster of units that are good enough to warrant play has gotten super narrow.

[2PlusEasy]

Heresy has definitely failed in my local region of Nth QLD Australia. Heresy 3.0 was definitely a contributing reason, but I wouldn't say it was THE reason.

 

My harsh insight and self-reflection: heresy in my local region is full of grognards (myself included). Said grognards treat heresy as the last bastion of what GW games used to be in the 90s / 2000s. Said grognards are all middle aged white men with no time to hobby and don't play more then a handful of times per year: 2.0 was still new, now 3.0 arrived and the betrayal was real. Said grognards are also comfortable with "their people" because of the limited time and energy to risk a bad game with a stranger which has surprisingly resulted in alot of hating "those people in that other small group." Said grognards also had this dream of "narrative" and "casual gaming" but couldn't decide what that meant which resulted in more of sticking with "their people." This led certain grognards who tried to build a unified community to burn out and exit the scene entirely. Said grognards also complain about the hobby and reminisce about the idea of the hobby more then they actually do the hobby: some of their complaints are highly valid, but most of the time they just have nothing positive to say about the hobby at all. Said grognards are also not purchasing heresy from local stores: they've either accumulated what they wanted already over decades, or order from recasters. The new generation of players who do purchase plastic from local stores and play games regularly either never see these grognards, or they only see them complain about the hobby and go "OK boomer" because they don't want to be a part of it.

 

So in all harshness... Locally we killed heresy ourselves. My self-reflection on the matter has really changed my perception on how toxic being a grognard can be if you're not careful.

Edited yesterday at 02:22 AM by 2PlusEasy