Archmagos Guy Haley

[Nagashsnee]

Ok so unless i really failed i did not see a dedicated thread for this book. And i was lucky enought to get thru it over the weekend. I wont go into details unless requested (dont, read it) but just general impressions. Non spoiler version, the third book in the Belisarius Cawl series it carries on from the previous plot threads and indeed moves it all forward. It explores and advances both the general plot set up (Necrons, pylons) but also several character plots (Cawl, The Regent, Qvo) while introducing one or two new characters. 

 

I found it to be the weakest of the three without that meaning it was not a fun read. Just that it was not at the level the previous two were (especially the Great Work). For reasons see spoilers.

7/10. Solid and delivers what you expect, but doesnt knock any balls out of the park doing so.

 

The below spoilers dont actually spoil anything major, its mostly what i found did not work for the books, and contains only vague spoilers, did it just to be safe.

 

Spoiler

The book is split amongst 3 POVs, you have Cawl and gang, Felix and his marine friends, and Chaooooos which is up to some eviiiil let me tell you. Unfortunately for me this divide did not work, Cawl and gang are obviously the main draw, and indeed the main plot of the book, and while the chaos sections were fine and set up the main big bad, the Felix section did not serve much of a purpose. 

 

We go back to the Wolfspears, and Felixs wolf spear friend, we catch up on the chapter and what they have been doing at the pit of Racknoss (sp?), sure it sets up Cawls been building pylons there for latter in the book, but ultimatly they eat up allot of pages, failed to keep my attention and interest and felt like a weird segway into 'hey remember dark Imperium? I member!'. 

 

This divide killed narative flow as every time the Cawl plot was picking up i would be thrown into a felix or chaos chapter or three and and it just killed momentum. I just DONT CARE about the wolf spears, or Felix, or the COMICALLY silly numbers they have in fighting endless hordes of deamons every night (for real they act like 1 repulsor is some kind of major power up, but the wolf spears should have a full armory of tanks and gear, why is Felix bringing 1 fething tank treated with such awe).  Marines are what i buy Cawl books to get away from, the tetrachs and the primaris and the 500 worlds and Titus and Calgar.... and all that is why i was excited that a Cawl book dropped. 

 

Now some of you are already typing away, ''but book 1 had Felix and Marines you fool! you hypocrite!'.  So why are they are a issue here? Because in book 1 they are PART of the Cawl story from the get go and their story and Cawls story becomes 1 organic story. Here while they do eventually get to that point its too little too late. A huge chunck of the book is practially 2 mini books connected by a overall story. They do NOT form 1 cohesive organic story, but are instead two seperate stories running in pararel. And for me this left the book poorer for it. 

 

Indeed this book replaces book 1 Felix with  order Historitar Mechanicus character, and sets up a deeply Mechanicus focussed story....that FELIX just keeps interrupting. 

 

Anyhow i make it sound worse then it is, but it was ultimately a let down. The good was there, Qvo, Cawls Necron GF, mechanicus being mechanicus, Primus being the mopey teenage kid he truly is. But the format of the story held it back and left a bitter aftertaste that  holds the book back.

 

Very curious if this turns out to be just me or not. SO PLEASE SHARE YOUR VIEWS

 

 

Edited November 24 by Nagashsnee
I cant spell LoL

[Karhedron]

Haley has turned Cawl from a McGuffin into one of the most entertaining characters in 40K. I am still looking forward to picking this up but I cannot seem to find it anywhere other than BL. Is it in Amazon or anything?

[Tolmeus]

14 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Is it in Amazon or anything?

 

Kindle version on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.de/Archmagos-Warhammer-40-000-English-ebook/dp/B0FXH84D2Z/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2A60E33WDE8H&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wjK8LyQFjrjH98yze3O4QTFwQHxUlNGlpBsPT_WKHoPGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.b1SiFVT21A0sVxDxRhi4xhcwB1CbNMmwVvREMVevV9k&dib_tag=se&keywords=archmagos+guy+haley&qid=1763979064&s=audible&sprefix=archmagos+guy+haley%2Caudible%2C100&sr=1-1-catcorr

 

Audible on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.de/Belisarius-Cawl-Archmagos-Warhammer-000/dp/B0G162YVT4/ref=zg_bsnr_g_420058031_d_sccl_14/000-0000000-0000000?psc=1

 

Hardback on Warhammer:

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/hb-belisarius-cawl-archmagos-eng-2025?queryID=d926baaa066ba12bfcb732800441ee3a

[darkhorse0607]

4 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

  Hide contents

We go back to the Wolfspears, and Felixs wolf spear friend, we catch up on the chapter and what they have been doing at the pit of Racknoss (sp?), sure it sets up Cawls been building pylons there for latter in the book, but ultimatly they eat up allot of pages, failed to keep my attention and interest and felt like a weird segway into 'hey remember dark Imperium? I member!'. 

 

This divide killed narative flow as every time the Cawl plot was picking up i would be thrown into a felix or chaos chapter or three and and it just killed momentum. 

 

 

 

Yeah, so only 5ish chapters in, I'll listen a bit when I'm on the treadmill later so I just hit the part where

 

Spoiler

where Felix arrives to Raukos(sp?) and it just kind of caught me off-guard. Granted early on and all that, but for a book that started with deep focus on the characters/establishing the historitor (also sp, sorry, audible, I spell like it sounds) to the point where she was thinking about having to go to the bathroom and a headache, it was kind of whiplash when it switched to Felix that, at least now, just seems unconnected to Cawls Adventure to the Temple of Doom or at least a weird spot to transition to might be a better way of putting it

 

I read The Successors anthology a few months back and there's a followup to the Wolfspears plot from Dark Imperium in there which I liked, so I'm actually up for more Felix/Wolfspear stuff but, I wonder how it's going to strike me when we're deep into Cawl removing the statue from the pillar and getting chased by a boulder dodging Necrons/Chaos with his time displacement thing

 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I haven't been shy about pointing out failures in BL product in the past, even Haley's (definitively killing off a character in The Silent King who was known to be healthy and active in the previously-published Ashes of Cadia, which took place a decade later, for instance).

 

However, I had a different take on a couple of the criticisms mentioned above:

 

 

I'm so used to the shift in PoV characters in Haley books at this point that it might have actually felt odd to have a string of Cawl chapters reach more than three or four before it was interrupted. And I'd argue it served a more vital function in this book as it reminded us of the difference in relative time during Cawl's operation. He'd have about four chapters all taking place over the course of a few hours and then we switch back to Felix and it's been several weeks since we last saw him. When we get back to Cawl, even though we left him on a cliffhanger, it's understood that the sidestep into Felix's story only lasted a few moments in Cawl's PoV. The early chapters don't work this way, but they're "building" chapters on all sides, not relating the middle of a battle.

 

Granted, it would have been better if Felix had been worked in to Genefather as well, but at this point he's been part of four previous (and chronologically recent) Haley novels, so he's hardly a stranger. Still, the... outcome... of the final conflict for several members of the Chosen of Vespator would have had more of an impact if they'd actually been introduced properly in this book. A couple of them were not even mentioned by name until their "outcome" was related.

 

As for the lack of heavy equipment possessed by the Wolfspear company on Ulvheim, that was actually explained early on:

 

‘Sorry about that,’ said Bjarni. ‘They’re bit a cramped, those old Rhinos, but we’re short on Impulsors.’ He pointed his thumb behind him at the tank. ‘We were given a lot of legacy equipment when we were founded. There wasn’t so much of the new machinery to spare. What we have we sent out with the hunting companies, and negotiations with the Adeptus Mechanicus take their time.’ Bjarni looked at Felix. ‘I know you, Decimus, you’ll be thinking we’ve been here five years, and in that time we should have got our forges operating at full capacity, and should be making our own as well. But the Varghalen is not a fortress-monastery – that honour goes to the Umbral Claw – and we do not have many Techmarines here. Fighting every night doesn’t leave a lot of time to get things accomplished, so we’ll be forced to make do with what we have until some forge world or other agrees to supply us.’

 

You may not accept that explanation, but at least it was there.

 

[Nagashsnee]

1 hour ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

Yeah, so only 5ish chapters in, I'll listen a bit when I'm on the treadmill later so I just hit the part where

 

  Reveal hidden contents

where Felix arrives to Raukos(sp?) and it just kind of caught me off-guard. Granted early on and all that, but for a book that started with deep focus on the characters/establishing the historitor (also sp, sorry, audible, I spell like it sounds) to the point where she was thinking about having to go to the bathroom and a headache, it was kind of whiplash when it switched to Felix that, at least now, just seems unconnected to Cawls Adventure to the Temple of Doom or at least a weird spot to transition to might be a better way of putting it

 

I read The Successors anthology a few months back and there's a followup to the Wolfspears plot from Dark Imperium in there which I liked, so I'm actually up for more Felix/Wolfspear stuff but, I wonder how it's going to strike me when we're deep into Cawl removing the statue from the pillar and getting chased by a boulder dodging Necrons/Chaos with his time displacement thing

 

I look forward to hearing from you when you are futher in.

47 minutes ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

I haven't been shy about pointing out failures in BL product in the past, even Haley's (definitively killing off a character in The Silent King who was known to be healthy and active in the previously-published Ashes of Cadia, which took place a decade later, for instance).

 

However, I had a different take on a couple of the criticisms mentioned above:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

I'm so used to the shift in PoV characters in Haley books at this point that it might have actually felt odd to have a string of Cawl chapters reach more than three or four before it was interrupted. And I'd argue it served a more vital function in this book as it reminded us of the difference in relative time during Cawl's operation. He'd have about four chapters all taking place over the course of a few hours and then we switch back to Felix and it's been several weeks since we last saw him. When we get back to Cawl, even though we left him on a cliffhanger, it's understood that the sidestep into Felix's story only lasted a few moments in Cawl's PoV. The early chapters don't work this way, but they're "building" chapters on all sides, not relating the middle of a battle.

 

Granted, it would have been better if Felix had been worked in to Genefather as well, but at this point he's been part of four previous (and chronologically recent) Haley novels, so he's hardly a stranger. Still, the... outcome... of the final conflict for several members of the Chosen of Vespator would have had more of an impact if they'd actually been introduced properly in this book. A couple of them were not even mentioned by name until their "outcome" was related.

 

As for the lack of heavy equipment possessed by the Wolfspear company on Ulvheim, that was actually explained early on:

 

‘Sorry about that,’ said Bjarni. ‘They’re bit a cramped, those old Rhinos, but we’re short on Impulsors.’ He pointed his thumb behind him at the tank. ‘We were given a lot of legacy equipment when we were founded. There wasn’t so much of the new machinery to spare. What we have we sent out with the hunting companies, and negotiations with the Adeptus Mechanicus take their time.’ Bjarni looked at Felix. ‘I know you, Decimus, you’ll be thinking we’ve been here five years, and in that time we should have got our forges operating at full capacity, and should be making our own as well. But the Varghalen is not a fortress-monastery – that honour goes to the Umbral Claw – and we do not have many Techmarines here. Fighting every night doesn’t leave a lot of time to get things accomplished, so we’ll be forced to make do with what we have until some forge world or other agrees to supply us.’

 

You may not accept that explanation, but at least it was there.

 
 

 

 

Spoiler

The explanation explain why the newer cawl era gear is in short supply. BUT. and this is a big (HAHA) BUT, this is a space marine homeworld which gets DAILY (well nightly) deamonic invasions. Even if they took ALL the new stuff, if the book is telling me they left NOTHING behind it would be nothing but gross incompotence at normal times. During the era indomitus, on a planet NEXT to a warp anomaly that gets INVADED every 24 hours, felix should have executed the chapter master on the spot when he returned.  A single soul grinder becomes a major issue they could hardly deal with.  The chapters actual job is to guard the pit and the pylons and they went off cause they got bored and stripped the garisson so bare that a single deamonic tank (again they get invaded by deamons every day) becomes a major major issue.   As i said in my original post its COMICALLY small force, and thats AFTER felix and co reinforced them.  The explanation given makes it WORSE not better. They are unprepared for their duty, they are lax in their guard, they are remit of their oaths, they are inept and none of this warms me to them. 

 

And before someone says it, no 'the ever happening  deamon invasions have not had armor or big dudes so far so we sent all our armor off world'  is not the defence they think it is.  I understand the need for a action set piece but it was set up in my view very poorly. 

 

As for the POV issue, i am not arguing for Cawl to have never ending chapters, just that they way it was done was to me detrimental to the flow.  Cut away sure, but have it a way that doesnt feel like we are cutting to a different story.  I have no issues with the chaos cuts (tho i found the Iron Warrior a bit boring). Have felix go the wolfspears, having him inspect the pylons, have them report to him that the invasion are getting worse and their numbers are tumbling. Suddenly cawls quest has a second timer, the actual trapped in the black whole timer, and the know to us the reader needs to get back to the pit before the pylons are overunn timer.

 

Cut to Felix trying to secure more forces since he doesnt hear from cawl but finding none available fast, give us the souldgrinder fight but have the chapter NOT HAVE enough armor and resources for the bigger and bigger waves (forcing felix into danger and having his 1 tank plug a gap). Tie the two story threads together so they feel united. Instead i have Felix catching up with mates and drinking space viking vodka while they chat about old times. THAT POV i have a issue with, cause it makes me want to go back to thea ACTUAL plot. 

 

Plus you have Cawl ship getting damaged, having them slowly being overrun and us knowing Vashtor is sending the soul grinder swarm while Cawl ship takes damage creates tension. Maybe the pylons will be damaged, it is close to the end of the book, maybe Felix goes down and they set up a cawl goes cray cray with the pylons as revenge,  maybe...maybe.

 

Instead the bored space vikings have failed in their one job...because they got bored and the imperial forces are in danger because of....incompotence? That is never adressed? Like they clearly could not afford to have 4  companies off word which was their actual obj to secure.  

 

I have no issues with split POV when they add to the book and it all flows together. These one did not. 

 

 

Edited November 24 by Nagashsnee

[Roomsky]

Wait. Wait wait wait. You're all saying Felix is the least interesting part of a novel?

 

I'm shocked. Shocked!

[Orange Knight]

I just finished reading the book. It's the weakest novel in the Cawl series so far, but still more interesting, more exciting and overall better than most other Black Library novels released over the past 2 years.

 

Cawl continues to be an extremely interesting character, and Haley continues to write interesting sci-fi stories, leaning into interesting technologies over magics and mysticism - although there is plenty of that too.

**WARNING** Heavy Spoilers Ahead - Be Warned

 

Spoiler

The plot of this book is pretty wild. The Adeptus Mechanicus have devised a method of traveling to a planet locked on the very edge of the Event Horizon of a Black Hole, which was artificially created during the War in Heaven.

The Planet is a Necron War World that was being assaulted by the forces of Ancient Eldar, and due to the extreme gravitational forces from the Black Hole, is effectively frozen in time. The planet is as it was 67 million years ago. The fact that the planet was not outright destroyed by the artificial black hole is due to the fact that the Necron War Wold had active defenses that moved the planet away, trying to counter the black hole, but failed to escape fully, so the world is forever trapped in the Event Horizon.
On this planet the armies from the War in Heaven still exist, frozen in time, and an intact Necron data centre exists - uncorrupted and undamaged by the passege of time.

This was all absolutely fascinating, and it's one of the reasons why I always love the adventures of Cawl in the Haley novels. The whole plot and premise feels very different from the typical 40k adventure - there is a focus on incredible technological achievements and overcoming limitations.
There are many other elements in play that make this plan work, including using Necron technologies, mcguffins, etc but it all feels pretty good to read about. There are also some insights into the War in Heaven, including the ancient startship and weapons which is very interesting considering the mysticism surrounding this period.

The whole thing was a clever way of effectively having time travel in the 40k setting, and there are some fun plot development that work well without milking the concept too much.

I've seen complaints that the Felix portion of the book was slow - I think this was the point. Cawl and his party can't be fully shielded, despite their best efforts, from the gravitational effects the black hole has on time. Their brief stint on the Necron War World feels like minutes or hours to them, but months pass in the rest of the galaxy. Felix and the Wolf Spear chapter are defending a small, man-made Pylon network, awaiting Cawl's arrival.

There is another plot including Vashtor, who in this novel feels like a dark mirror to Belisarius Cawl. In fact, he is obsessed with the Archmagos, and his ultimate desire is to turn Cawl over to Chaos, and have him as a prized tech savant on his personal forge world inside the warp.

The biggest plot development in the novel is the fact that Cawl does succeed in his mission to plunder the Necron database, and is able to effectively re-create the Necron pylons. He closes the warp rift near the Attilan gap completely, and departs to do the same in other areas.
It is now effectively possible for the Imperium to close the Great Rift, although it would still be a grand and costly undertaking. Who knows what other technologies he'll be able to master with the Necron database in his possession.

There are also developments with Qvo-89 and some of the other characters which could be of interest to people who are familiar with them, and who have read the prior novels.

 

Overall this novel was great, and it does serve to progress the main 40k Narrative. It also sets up future conflicts between major players.

Edited November 25 by Orange Knight

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

  Hide contents

The biggest plot development in the novel is the fact that Cawl does succeed in his mission to plunder the Necron database, and is able to effectively re-create the Necron pylons. He closes the warp rift near the Attilan gap completely, and departs to do the same in other areas.

 

 

To be clear...

 

 

 
It's just the Pit Cawl closes, and the Gap (not "other areas") he departs to work on closing, a process he expects to take about a year.

After that and assuming Cawl meets his own timetable, Guilliman will be able to return to Sanctus... still a couple of years before the Lion shows up in Nihilus. Perhaps by then someone will manage to explain the timeline (again) to Chapter Master Valrak, since he somehow thinks Archmagos is taking place during or after the Lion's return.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

BTW, the limited edition of this book does include a new short story that I haven't seen mentioned. It's called "Five Questions" and involves Alpha Primus binding a (very) lesser daemon and engaging in the titular exercise.

 

Salient information from the responses:

 

 

 

 

 

Primus is Cawl's son "in flesh and effort both."
 

 
Cawl did not use any of the geneseed from the Primarchs to create Alpha Primus.

 

The daemon refers to the primarchs as "the darkness" and Primus himself as "the shadow."

 

That's about it.

 
 

 

Edited November 25 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[wecanhaveallthree]

Spoiler

Cawl did not use any of the geneseed from the Primarchs to create Alpha Primus.

 

Heh heh heh:

 

Spoiler

"Bile’s bolt pistol came up preternaturally fast; for such a relic he could move. Primus waved his hand. A blow of telekinetic force sent it wide. A second wrenched it from the Primogenitor’s grasp, and it slammed into the gutted wreck of a lighter.
 

Bile rubbed his wrist. ‘I sense the seed of the cyclops in you. Cawl is rash. You should not be.’"

 

We all make mistakes. I'm sure Bile will bounce back.

 

 

[Scribe]

Sigh...

[Nagashsnee]

6 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Cawl did not use any of the geneseed from the Primarchs to create Alpha Primus.

 

Heh heh heh:

 

  Hide contents

"Bile’s bolt pistol came up preternaturally fast; for such a relic he could move. Primus waved his hand. A blow of telekinetic force sent it wide. A second wrenched it from the Primogenitor’s grasp, and it slammed into the gutted wreck of a lighter.
 

Bile rubbed his wrist. ‘I sense the seed of the cyclops in you. Cawl is rash. You should not be.’"

 

We all make mistakes. I'm sure Bile will bounce back.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Scribe said:

Sigh...

 

 

Spoiler

To be fair, Bile makes a observation based on what he knows of Cawls work by bisecting Primaris. It is a logical conclusion to reach, he is not a psycker and him saying 'sense' would for me be gut instinct rather then anything concrete. 

 

Like wise taking what a summoned deamon says as fact would be stupid in universe, never mind as readers.

 

Primus is being set up to be whatever the story decides it needs him to be.  Be that attempt at making a primarch, early attempt at super marines and only surviving prototype of said project, or cawl just having fun and experiementing. Nothing is set in stone yet, and i expect more characters to have their own theories on him the more stories he appers in. 

 

They could both be 100% right,  Cawl could have used info/biological matter of Magnus blood line to make Primus, but not actual geneseed. Etc etc.  Untill BL actually provides a answer people should try not to tie themshelves too much on what he is and just enjoy the in universe and irl theory posting. 

 

Edited November 26 by Nagashsnee

[NTaW]

Got through the audiobook this morning. I enjoyed it and have come to quite like Cawl though this trilogy, reading The Great Work shortly after its release really helped the Primaris plotline make sense to me. The science explored in these novels is a refreshing break from the overly religious nature of the Imperium everywhere else, and I appreciate how hard Haley works to have everything "make sense" (in-universe anyway).

 

The side stories of the Primaris and Vashtorr felt like they could have been much shorter and conveyed the same content, but that's just me wanting more Cawl + Necron conversations. Really, a planet from the War in Heaven trapped in stasis mid battle? I could read a series of books exploring that planet. It took me a moment to even realize that it was setting up the time difference between the concurrent happenings, but with the Warp being whatever it needs to be for the plot it wouldn't have been hard to conceive that the time weirdness happened during their escape and not during the trip to the surface. Either way I really liked the main arc of this book.

 

One thing that stuck out to me is that Guilliman is already in Nihilus, and requires the Atillan Gate stabilised to return. I -really- thought he needed the AG stable to bring the army through to Nihilus for his arrival in Baal during the Devastation, and that it was only the Primaris seeder fleet with Qvo 89 (not sure the number, but the one Cawl created to go) over there doing what it can to reinforce. Can anyone help me rectify my understanding of the timeline? I've listened to a lot of these books on somewhat rapid fire over the last few months and perhaps some details have blurred together.

 

Also, an Armiger showing up in a (Dreadnought) Drop Pod? Absolute yes. Give me that in game and I'll be one happy gamer.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

5 hours ago, NTaW said:

 

 

  Hide contents

One thing that stuck out to me is that Guilliman is already in Nihilus, and requires the Atillan Gate stabilised to return. I -really- thought he needed the AG stable to bring the army through to Nihilus for his arrival in Baal during the Devastation, and that it was only the Primaris seeder fleet with Qvo 89 (not sure the number, but the one Cawl created to go) over there doing what it can to reinforce. Can anyone help me rectify my understanding of the timeline? I've listened to a lot of these books on somewhat rapid fire over the last few months and perhaps some details have blurred together.

 

 

 

I don't think I need to spoiler this, as it's just concerning timeline stuff and the Guilliman-trapped-in-Nihilus situation was spelled out quite clearly in the promo copy for Archmagos. I'm only going to be discussing stuff that happened in previously-published books.

 

Qvo followed Guilliman to Nihilus rather than preceding him. Gilly got over there at the end of Devastation and has apparently been there ever since (this is new information as of that promo material for Archmagos, the original version of Devastation makes it sound like Guilliman is headed right back across the Rift as soon as he leaves Baal at the end).

 

Qvo doesn't show up to Baal until well after Guilliman left - the short story Teus of Baal takes place six months after Guilliman arrived (and therefore several months after he left, assuming we can still generally take the ending of Devastation as canon). Qvo-88* then shows up in Darkness in the Blood, which takes place again at least several months after Teus of Baal. We aren't told exactly how long, but then we kind of are...

 

See, Darkness in the Blood, like Devastation, was written before the timeline retcon. This is why in Devastation, we are told that seventy years have gone by outside of Baal and why Qvo is referred to as Qvo-EIGHTY-SEVEN in Darkness. Haley knew he was going to kill Qvo-87 in The Great Work, but at the time he was writing Darkness, that story still should have preceded Dark Imperium and the subsequent Great Work by several decades.

 

However, by the time he was actually promoting the now-submitted-printed-and-published Darkness in the Blood (and, surprisingly, BEFORE the timeline retcon had been announced), Haley said in an interview that Darkness took place "10-14 years" after the opening of the Rift FROM A TERRAN POINT OF VIEW. This apparently went over the heads of everyone who read it at the time (I personally plead ignorance of the entire interview until months later). But in retrospect, it's clear that Haley was speaking with the knowledge that the Dark Imperium trilogy had been pushed back a hundred years to 12 years post-Rift, but he wasn't set on whether Devastation still preceded that trilogy or now followed it. So he was hedging his bets a little either way, This is before he wrote Godblight, where the end of the book confirms his intention to go to Nihilus (this originally caused me some amount of confusion at the time as I was trying to figure out if this meant he was going BACK and that Devastation had still taken place prior to Dark Imperium. Eventually, after much misunderstanding of exactly what question I was asking from people who'd read the reworked Dark Imperium and Plague War but hadn't yet read Godblight - and me not wanting to spoil the end of that book for them - it eventually became clear that the trek to Nihilus Guilliman was planning at the end of Godblight would be his first and would lead into Devastation).

 

The Great Work then follows Godblight and it's here that Qvo-87 meets his end. Subsequently, Cawl brings about Qvo-88 and sends him to Nihilus, as he later explains to Qvo-89 in Genefather. So Darkness in the Blood has to follow The Great Work and Genefather has to follow Darkness in the Blood (or take place concurrently).

 

Meanwhile, Archmagos takes place five years after the Triumph of Raukos, so 17 years post-Rift.

 

That puts three years at least between Darkness in the Blood and Archmagos if we stick to Haley's original estimate and take the latest extreme.

 

But that would mean Guilliman's been stuck in Nihilus for over three years.

 

Personally, I'm betting that if you asked him now, Haley would put Devastation and Darkness in the Blood even further out from Godblight, but you can't go TOO far. The thing is that Cawl still needs to send Qvo-88 over to Nihilus prior to the start of Genefather, which takes place sometime before Archmagos. And the timeline for Teus really needs to put about a year between Guilliman's arrival on Baal in Devastation and Darkness.

 

(EDIT: I should also account for the likelihood that with the revised timeline and the difficulty of crossing the Rift, Haley will now have Qvo-88 crossing into Nihilus with Guilliman rather than on his own about a year later - what he would have been doing all that time I have no idea, but maybe the entire period between Devastation and Darkness will be collapsed and Teus will just be quietly forgotten).

 

Yeah, I can't imagine how all of that could be confusing. What was the question again?

 

Edited November 27 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour
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[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

BTW...

 

 

I think this is the first time we've heard the name of the new Fabricator-General of Mars - Xasandera Valdet - or that the office has indeed been filled following the disappearance and presumed death of Raskian in The Dark City. Presumably this is the same Fabricator-General who appeared, but was unnamed - unlike the rest of the High Lords who spoke - in the Morvenn Vahl novel.

 

[Felix Antipodes]

While we know that hard dates were dropped by GW (allegedly at writer encouragement) I just wish they would put a sequence of events (sans dates) to clear up the confusion caused by the changes.  The upcoming 11th edition rulebook would be the perfect place to do it imho.

[Tolmeus]

'There are three other tetrarchs and the Lord Macragge besides. Five sectors of Ultramar, and over it all Lord Calgar's will is paramount.'

'How is he?'

'He is just.'

'You mean he is still pissed off.'

 

Hehe, good summary 

[Krelious]

After finishing this 

Spoiler

I'm really not sure why Vashtorr was included in this novel because his whole character is lul i could have escaped the entire time and i planned everything out but then theres this odd aspect that hes evil but he plays fairly with everyone including when he has a disctinct advantage over the Warsmith hes like okay we will bargain as equals and "oh you are so smart for seeing through my tricks" to me this doesnt really come across as like how any demon would operate and feels so oddly contrived. The whole plot of the Iron Warrior's and Vashtorr feels so disconected from the rest of the story that it feels pointless to the purpose of only saying hey they will be there in the next novel and I dont have to set up so much in that one.  

The novel is written well enough but suffers largely in being a set up piece for the next novel and this books kinda feel a bit too short for the importance of what they are conveying compared to like a Dawn of Fire novel which are on average 500 pages and a lot of them are terrible. After another character is defeated or exits in this series then its going to be like hey why is Absrubael Vect and his top Homonculus so interested in Cawl? Lets see what zany adventures he gets into. Oh and the Dark Eldar were of course watching him the whole time just as planned type thing goes on. 

[NTaW]

Holy smokes what a glorious response, thank you Lord Nord.

 

On 11/26/2025 at 11:20 PM, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

the Guilliman-trapped-in-Nihilus situation was spelled out quite clearly in the promo copy for Archmagos

 

On 11/26/2025 at 11:20 PM, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

the short story Teus of Baal

 

Are these available outside of the physical copies they were published in?

 

On 11/26/2025 at 11:20 PM, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

Godblight, where the end of the book confirms his intention to go to Nihilus (this originally caused me some amount of confusion at the time as I was trying to figure out if this meant he was going BACK and that Devastation had still taken place prior to Dark Imperium. Eventually, after much misunderstanding of exactly what question I was asking from people who'd read the reworked Dark Imperium and Plague War but hadn't yet read Godblight - and me not wanting to spoil the end of that book for them - it eventually became clear that the trek to Nihilus Guilliman was planning at the end of Godblight would be his first and would lead into Devastation).

 

This was my understanding at the end of Godblight, that he was going from there to Nihilus much like he went from the events of The Silent King to the Dark Imperium trilogy (following the new timeline).

 

Did his crossing happen "off screen" still, or did it all happen in full in the promo copy of Archmagos?

 

 

 

I guess with all this mostly sorted there's a chance Guilliman is still in Nihilus as Dante and the Lion meet (I want to say this was in an Arcs of Omen book, or maybe at the end of Son of the Forest?). Archmagos sure seems like it doesn't want to be the final book of a trilogy, I wonder if we'll see a few threads come together at Cawl works to stabilise the Attilan Gate.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

8 hours ago, NTaW said:

Holy smokes what a glorious response, thank you Lord Nord.

 

No problem. 

 

8 hours ago, NTaW said:

Are these available outside of the physical copies they were published in?

 

This was my understanding at the end of Godblight, that he was going from there to Nihilus much like he went from the events of The Silent King to the Dark Imperium trilogy (following the new timeline).

 

Did his crossing happen "off screen" still, or did it all happen in full in the promo copy of Archmagos?

 

When I mention the "promo copy" for Archmagos, I'm just talking about the written material released as promotion ("copy" as in "copywriting.") In this case, it was just the text on the Black Library site that came alongside the page for the ebook. Usually some or all of this also ends up on the back cover of the paperback edition. Specifically this bit:

 

THE STORY
For years, Belisarius Cawl has nurtured an audacious plan to stabilise the Attilan Gap sufficiently that the Imperium might open a stable route into Imperium Nihilus. With the primarch Roboute Guilliman having crossed the Great Rift, and now isolated on the far side, time is running out.

 

 

Since you mentioned The Silent King, I should point out that this was actually telegraphed in that book, but Cawl was a little skeptical as to whether it would end up going down that way (Guilliman had gotten his information from "other magi.")

 

As for Teus of Baal, I don't think it has been reprinted anywhere. It wasn't in the Lords of Blood collection, even though the two Astorath stories were included. Shame, as Teus shows up in both Devastation and Darkness.

 

8 hours ago, NTaW said:

I guess with all this mostly sorted there's a chance Guilliman is still in Nihilus as Dante and the Lion meet (I want to say this was in an Arcs of Omen book, or maybe at the end of Son of the Forest?). Archmagos sure seems like it doesn't want to be the final book of a trilogy, I wonder if we'll see a few threads come together at Cawl works to stabilise the Attilan Gate.

 

If they go by previous timeline shoutouts in the stories, then there'd be three years if not more between Archmagos and The Red Angel, which starts off the chain of primarch returns and Arks of Omen developments. So unless Cawl runs into a labor strike or something, he ought to have the Gate/Gap stabilized well before then. But I don't think there's anything preventing them from moving The Red Angel up a couple of years if they really wanted, which could pull most of what happens after forward as well.

 

The real thing that would seem to be a sticker is that - if Guilliman was still around in Nihilus when the Lion showed up, why didn't Dante ever attempt to communicate with him? Even if he wanted to set up a surprise reunion, he already knew about the Vashtorr threat and would have definitely tried to get Guilliman onboard for the big Angron throwdown. If Guilliman's back in Sanctus, it makes sense that any messages or messengers Dante sent his way wouldn't have had time to get to him or get back with him. If he's still mucking about in Nihilus, Dante ought to have had him on speed-dial.

 

And yeah, Dante met the Lion at the end of the Son of the Forest book. The subsequent reunion with the Dark Angels (or at least the initial reunion) was covered in the final Arks of Omen book. As someone else mentioned, the codices show that the Lion has continued to cooperate with Dante and the very existence of the Inner Circle Companions shows that the memorial for at least some of the former Fallen in Arks of Omen was just disinformation.

 

The Lazarus novel also concludes with the Fifth Company finding out about the Lion's return.

 

 

Edited December 2 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour