Character points cost and JP tax.

[Brother Raul]

Hail Brothers and Sisters,

                                              Just a quick post about our HQ points costing to get the ball rolling around 11th edition.

 

I really think our HQs are waaaay over costed and would love GW to review it going into 11th (sure all factions would). Probably aversge of 10%.

 

If you compare to other Space Marine chapters we pay a tax on HQs, particulary JP HQs. Now JP units carry a small tax on regular, always have, always will. But thats the same durability PLUS extra mobility in most cases.

 

Its just double or triple if its a BA HQ without the extra durability. The big examples I can think of are Dante, Lemartes and the Sanguinor. Can argue Astorath but his weapon profile is much better than Lemmy's and he has precison plus the same number of buffs for cheaper....

 

Similar DA, UM or SW characters are much cheaper, and very arguably have more impactful rules. 

 

Its not a great comparison with Chaos marines either, who get Primarchs.

 

Some of it is comparing TEQ HQs with 3+/4+/6+ and fewer wounds, which we pay more for. So we have HQs which aren't as durable but we pay more for mobility.

 

The crux of this argument is since when does speed cost more than Durability? They are core game attributes but its an exclusive choice. If I got more durability with my speed I'd happily pay extra.

 

Mephiston gets durability but IS not as fast as a JP unit. Gets taxed for both.

 

Sanguinor gets gold standard manouverabilty with bare terminator durability, at a eye watering price.

 

Oddly the new DC JP Captain is costed accurately at 75 points compared to other chapters....

 

And finally we don't have a Primarch and we have to compete with Codexes that have Demi gods. Giving the faction that doesnt have either cheaper HQs to compensate is just fair.

 

Hopefully someone at GW will see this and say you know what, checks out but I think they might be a bit busy at the moment.

[Blindhamster]

I don't think all our HQ are overcosted, honestly if anything, I think its more that there's some outlier special characters that are under costed in other chapters (looking at you mr raven guard!!)

 

Lemartes is priced as he is because that -1 damage on his entire unit is absolutely huge for DC durability. I think 100 points is fine for him personally as he really does make them much harder to shift if you run a 10 man blob. 

 

Dante is a little over priced since his +1 to hit buff stopped being useful to his standard bodyguard (sanguinary guard). But not excessively so, he still has 8 strength 8 AP-3 damage 2 lethal hits attacks which makes him a threat to just abput anything especially when used in LAS. If he were cheaper, it should only be a little  cheaper. I'd like to see the +1 to hit buff replaced with something else now it doesn't do anyting for his go-to bodyguard personally. His battleshock ability is a bit meh (I forgot it in my last game), but I guess might come in clutch at times. Worth noting Dante has 6 wounds - more than most characters too.

 

Sanguinor - yeah he's way too expensive

 

Astorath is great, I think his points are fine where they are. He's more durable than other chaplains with the 2+ save also. In my last game he casually swatted vulkan aside and then did most of the work on Adrax too - surviving both encounters. 

 

Mephiston is probably a bit over costed (again compare him to raven guard lone operative).

 

Probably a case that Dante, Sanguinor & Mephiston should be ~ 100-110 points each. 

 

Most of our HQs do have a good amount of attack potential to go along with their speed. 

 

 

[DemonGSides]

Yeah our HQ's are strong and there's a few that are overcosted.  But we should just stop mentioning Lemartes because it always feels like he's one good tournament win away from GW cracking down on him.  I don't love the update but the rules that he has are quite choice for what DC do, and they let you have a unit of DC on the field without being TOO Worried about them being eviscerated before being able to do anything.

 

I do think Sanguinor, for what he does, is way too expensive, but I think he was a failure in general for GW this edition and should've been made into something more.