Blood Ravens Special Characters

[Lathe Biosas]

These guys were in the Dawn of War boxed set.

 

Odd that the Blood Ravens would get 2 Chaplains, instead of a Librarian.

 

What do you think about them?

[HeadlessCross]

Assuming those rules are real...

1. Judiciar is nice. Extra consolidation range is super clutch. Having a 4++ outside melee is also cool. 

2. Chaplain is not useful though. While a FNP is nice, charging after falling back is something that can be granted in multiple manners. 

 

Ultimately, creating an army around the both of them won't be good, with the Chaplain especially holding it back. You're better off using the generic profiles and grabbing enhancements you feel fit. 

Edited Sunday at 11:55 PM by HeadlessCross

[Tacitus]

Technically the Judiciar isn't a Chaplain hes more like an acolyte or Chaplain in training or some such, I forget the exact fluff.

 

They look like they use default models and get an alternate datasheet, so the first thing you want to do is look at the difference between the default guy, and the Epic Hero guy

 

Judiciar is only a few points more and trades bonus attacks on his sword for extended consolidation space.  Consolidation space is going to help everyone in the unit.  The Precision big sword is pretty likely to get its bonus, but doesn't really buff the unit.   The Chaplain trades a Get-Out-Of-Battleshock-Free card for Fall Back and Charge for a bigger price hike than the Judiciar.  And (Power Armor/Normal/whatever) Chaplains aren't very impressive on the tabletop. Terminator Chaplains are better.

 

So the Epic Hero Judiciar is an upgrade that probably justifies the point hike.  The Chaplian probably also justifies the point hike, but chaplains in general (barring some other shenanigans) don't justify the base cost. 

 

Also remember you can't mix and match He'Stan (or the Salamanders Det you're working on) wtih the Judiciar because of the Faction Keywords.  Are there any Blood Raven only Dets in the book too?

[Lathe Biosas]

Not that I can find so far, but I'm still looking.

[jaxom]

15 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Assuming those rules are real...

They're real as in they exist in a GW product. I assume they're meant for Narrative/Campaign play. They're not part of the Big Space Marine Points List in the tournament pack.

 

13 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Also remember you can't mix and match He'Stan (or the Salamanders Det you're working on) wtih the Judiciar because of the Faction Keywords.  Are there any Blood Raven only Dets in the book too?

10 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

Not that I can find so far, but I'm still looking.

There are not.

 

I like both, but find their utility heavily depends on the detachment. For example, a Fall Back and Charge strat plus a good enhancement (as @HeadlessCross noted) are equivalent or better for the epic Chaplain. A melee weapon enhancement and movement/charge/consolidation trick strat are probably better than the epic Judiciar. That's just optimization though.

[Tacitus]

5 hours ago, jaxom said:

A melee weapon enhancement and movement/charge/consolidation trick strat are probably better than the epic Judiciar. That's just optimization though.

I don't know about that.  The way the rule is written his army using Blood Ravens characters would get the +1 to wound from OOM (And even though I think that was lucky oversight for the Blood Ravens that's how I would play it because these guys are still pretty generic not Epic) and I think Fights First and +1 to wound vs OOM is better than +1 to wound all the time (which is wasted vs OOM).  I think there's two ways to build a shenanigans layer - either including or duplicating and independent OOM.  The Chaplain only duplicates for melee (which can be fine if you're building that way) but there's ways to get a new OOM too that may work better for the Justiciar fights first.  Depends on all the pieces put together and where you can pick them up. 

[Indy Techwisp]

22 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

Odd that the Blood Ravens would get 2 Chaplains, instead of a Librarian.

 

There's no Librarians on that reused Starterbox Sprue, that's why.

[jaxom]

31 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

I don't know about that.  The way the rule is written his army using Blood Ravens characters would get the +1 to wound from OOM (And even though I think that was lucky oversight for the Blood Ravens that's how I would play it because these guys are still pretty generic not Epic) and I think Fights First and +1 to wound vs OOM is better than +1 to wound all the time (which is wasted vs OOM).  I think there's two ways to build a shenanigans layer - either including or duplicating and independent OOM.  The Chaplain only duplicates for melee (which can be fine if you're building that way) but there's ways to get a new OOM too that may work better for the Justiciar fights first.  Depends on all the pieces put together and where you can pick them up. 

I have no idea how this is relevant to what I said.

 

"A melee weapon enhancement and movement/charge/consolidation trick strat are probably better than the epic Judiciar," would be something like Judiciar with the Honour Vehement (+1A and +1S in melee, double if in Assault Doctrine) to hit the Str8 breakpoint. 

[Tacitus]

Oh I think we both crossed things up - Headless Cross was talking about the Epic Chaplain's Fall Back and Charge plus the part of your post I cropped because I didn't think it was relevant to the point: 

Quote

are equivalent or better for the epic Chaplain.

Which gave the impression you were saying the Epic Chaplain was better than the Epic Judiciar

Edited 16 hours ago by Tacitus