New Chaos Models

[Mogger351]

23 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Why would a Fallen Chapter so far gone to Nurgle lose their Jump Pack dudes?

See previous statements, they never had a lot, their war methods don't square thst circle and raptors aren't dedicated to nurgle in the current lore.

 

In short: GW said so.

Edited 23 hours ago by Mogger351
Edit: to expand, if they are to be a unique faction, then yes they need to lose something. If not then explain how a turbine works in a cloud of flies please and what CSM get in return. Where are their un-nurgled drones and crawlers?

[Evil Eye]

A big part of Nurgle's theming, both in terms of fluff and gameplay, has been slow yet relentless forces grinding forwards with the inevitability of death and decay. It kinda makes sense they wouldn't have much in terms of fast, highly mobile units at their disposal. Also bear in mind a lot of the fluff for the Traitor Legions was written when the Heresy was supposed to be this long-forgotten era of myth that only survived through scraps of information- all we needed to know about the pre-Heresy Death Guard with regards to their lack of modern-day fast attack is that they never made much use of it to begin with, so 10,000 years later what little they had has dwindled to almost nothing.

 

Now I think Nurgle bikers/jump troops being a thing would be neat (see @GuitaRasmusand his amazing Nurgle Raptors) but I'd rather they be reserved for Chaos Space Marine warbands who follow Nurgle, whilst Death Guard proper don't have access to them (instead having lots of other things that suit their style of warfare).

[Wispy]

If the fluff is preventing you from giving Cult armies wider access to Cult Legions and resulting in extremely limited model access 

 

Change the fluff 

 

Like the Chaos Space Marines are a scattered, fragmented force who should be very pragmatic about how they build and put their warbands together. They're not all veterans of the long war anymore.

 

(Photo from some guy on Reddit who did some fun kitbashes)If I were modeling Chaos SM infantry as DG, I'd attack it from the angle that these Havocs/Raptors/Bikers/ whatever weren't full fledged Nurgle devotees yet and had to turn their blightsNstripes filling these combat rolles before becoming full fledged Plague Marines. 

 

 

[HeadlessCross]

12 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

See previous statements, they never had a lot, their war methods don't square thst circle and raptors aren't dedicated to nurgle in the current lore.

 

In short: GW said so.

And that also explains how they lost their Possessed Marines, yes?

[Nephaston]

9 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

And that also explains how they lost their Possessed Marines, yes?

Gotta save that slot for when sevenbound release

[OnePaulMurray]

10 hours ago, Wispy said:

If the fluff is preventing you from giving Cult armies wider access to Cult Legions and resulting in extremely limited model access 

 

Change the fluff 

 

Like the Chaos Space Marines are a scattered, fragmented force who should be very pragmatic about how they build and put their warbands together. They're not all veterans of the long war anymore.

 

(Photo from some guy on Reddit who did some fun kitbashes)If I were modeling Chaos SM infantry as DG, I'd attack it from the angle that these Havocs/Raptors/Bikers/ whatever weren't full fledged Nurgle devotees yet and had to turn their blightsNstripes filling these combat rolles before becoming full fledged Plague Marines. 

 

 

If everyone can take everything though, do you not run the risk that all factions run into each other and become the same?

 

For me factions are defined as much by what they don't have, as what they do. 

[01RTB01]

18 minutes ago, OnePaulMurray said:

If everyone can take everything though, do you not run the risk that all factions run into each other and become the same?

 

For me factions are defined as much by what they don't have, as what they do. 

 

This I think is why they've done the roster trimming is for these very reasons. With time EC and WE will get more of their own stuff to fill the rosters out. I genuinely think they're trying to avoid cult legions being CSM+1 and instead having their own unique playstyle and stuff. 

 

However, Rome and ranges aren't built in a day so we have what we have. I played against death guard last weekend for the first time this edition. Definitely felt totally different to me playing emperor's children (I was playing orks at the time). Although there is no sense in EC having such a slim list, I do understand what they're trying to achieve in doing so. 

 

That said, I'm not sure why we can keep rhinos and land Raiders running but not predators/ vindicators/ dreads. Here's hoping I'm given cause to build and paint some new defilers and ditch the karnivores.

[Mogger351]

5 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

And that also explains how they lost their Possessed Marines, yes?

Now l think about it, are there any fluff snippets about death guard possessed specifically and what they resemble? I suspect they'll get a kit but it'll be a seven bound equivalent as above. I'd not be shocked if one of the terminator units gets retconned as the possessed unit.

 

Lets be honest at this point, you obviously want deathguard to return to being CSM with +1 T, so it feels a fruitless discussion.

Edited 5 hours ago by Mogger351

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Now l think about it, are there any fluff snippets about death guard possessed specifically and what they resemble? I suspect they'll get a kit but it'll be a seven bound equivalent as above. I'd not be shocked if one of the terminator units gets retconned as the possessed unit...

 

In the Index Astartes lists, all the Cult Legions (except EC, who - perhaps because they were the first to get such a list - had a very different format) had tweaks to their Possessed.

 

In the 1999 Codex, units of Possessed rolled three times on a table at the beginning of the game to see what benefits they got (and duplicates were wasted):

1. Daemonically Fast: 12" move.
2. Fearsome: opponents automatically fail any necessary Morale checks in combat and Fall Back.
3. Strong: +1S.
4. Frenzied: +1A.
5. Vorpal Blades & Claws: attacks ignore armour saves.
6. Invulnerable!: 5++.

WE Possessed's first roll was always considered to be a 3, DG Possessed's a 2, and TS Possessed's a 1.

 

While EC didn't then have an equivalent rule, I imagine they'd have been given the 4 as their automatic first result.

 

In the subsequent 2002 Codex, this changed to Possessed automatically being S5 and voluntarily paying for further Daemonic Upgrades (Jump Packs, a shooting attack, +1A, enemy Morale checks at -1, or Hit rolls of 6 ignore armour saves). In addition to this, you could Mark them (so WE's got Blood Frenzy, DG's +1T, TS's were (kind of useless) Sorcerers, and EC's had Warp Scream).

 

//

 

If I were to do a modern take on "DG Possessed", I'd lean into bio-mechanical "fly" tropes. Daemonic Plague Marines with big quad-turboprop Jump Packs, wielding Plague Knives and with swarms of plagueflies around them. (Maybe a "fly-vomit" attack.) Not actually any faster than CSM Possessed, but with the Fly keyword.

 

Basically combining elements of CSM's Possessed and Raptors/Warp Talons, conceptually. Which kind of brings up a point: if Death Guard already borrowed CSM's Possessed and Raptors/Warp Talons, then there'd be no reason to make such DG Jump-Possessed.

 

//

 

EC already have Flawless Blades taking on (roughly) that role, so I wouldn't bother with EC Possessed.

 

Likewise, instead of Possessed for TS, I'd go with little three-model Blade Coven units; psychically-thralled, Khopesh-wielding melee Sorcerers on Discs.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by LSM

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Lets be honest at this point, you obviously want deathguard to return to being CSM with +1 T, so it feels a fruitless discussion.

And that's a problem why, exactly? Better than what is going on right now where they lost access to a bunch of units and instead were given a dozen characters. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

On 12/11/2025 at 2:27 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

They’re updating the Defiler already? That things got another 25 years easy. 

 

The Eldar Falcon & Vyper chassis remain the undisputed kings of "They'll last forever."

 

 

I'm curious to see the new bikers.  I hope they're bulky.  I haven't gotten around to converting the Necromunda Goliath bikes to CSM bikers, but I still think they fit the aesthetic really well.  Maybe they'll be more similar to that instead of the old version of "Loyalist stuff, but with trim & spikes."

[Rain]

Nothing stops you from playing the CSM book with green Nurgle themed models. If you want Raptors, Oblits, etc. play that. If you want Plague Crawlers, Bloat Drones, etc. play the DG book. Otherwise, Cult Legions would just be strictly better versions of the base/unmarked CSM army.

 

DG are the worst army to make this argument for, as they actually get many bespoke units, while retaining the staple motor pool, which should be standard across all Chaos factions. Their roster makes for a complete and flavorful army, that trades some undivided units for Nurgle demon engines, two kinds of unique Terminators, etc.
 

EC got shafted as they bizarrely lost Predators, Forgefiends, Defilers, and Helbrutes, even though WE and TS, both of which launched after EC, kept all of these units. So, fair enough, they’re not in a great place, but I guess time will tell. I hope that this is a sign of an EC second wave in 11th to fill the gaps.

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

And that's a problem why, exactly? Better than what is going on right now where they lost access to a bunch of units and instead were given a dozen characters. 

Because frankly it's boring and a waste of potential. If you want that, go play an older editions.

 

If you suggest they get extras from their cult release + all of the book, what price are they paying for being CSM +1?

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, HeadlessCross said:

And that's a problem why, exactly? Better than what is going on right now where they lost access to a bunch of units and instead were given a dozen characters. 

Conveniently ignoring the two unique terminators, bespoke daemon engines, unique cultists and numerous detachments that mean that they feel like playing death guard and totally different to CSM.

 

There's zero surprises here that you've chosen to ignore all that for a change.

[TheMawr]

25 minutes ago, Rain said:

Nothing stops you from playing the CSM book with green Nurgle themed models. If you want Raptors, Oblits, etc. play that. If you want Plague Crawlers, Bloat Drones, etc. play the DG book. Otherwise, Cult Legions would just be strictly better versions of the base/unmarked CSM army.

 

DG are the worst army to make this argument for, as they actually get many bespoke units, while retaining the staple motor pool, which should be standard across all Chaos factions. Their roster makes for a complete and flavorful army, that trades some undivided units for Nurgle demon engines, two kinds of unique Terminators, etc.
 

EC got shafted as they bizarrely lost Predators, Forgefiends, Defilers, and Helbrutes, even though WE and TS, both of which launched after EC, kept all of these units. So, fair enough, they’re not in a great place, but I guess time will tell. I hope that this is a sign of an EC second wave in 11th to fill the gaps.

 

EC too.. maybe even more so, fall in your first paragraph territory.. as in everyone who had a CSM EC army lost only lucius... the EC specific army just got less crossover.

 

And I think this is an important element that GW should validate more clearly ( it was clear that they see it like this with some things before ) ;

 

1. Have the 4 Cult troops not through weird ally systems but as fully integrated CSM codex datasheets, with a datasheet bound option that the warlord can unlock them as battleline ( usually just the appropriate mark, though I'd argue Fabius bile should unlock noise marines as well ) 

 

2. Have appropriate CSM detachments for each.. not colorbound as they have elements that would fit others too,likewise there are detachments that..  while themed for others still are appropriate for your CSM based World Eaters or Deathguard etc.

 

Ideally I think there also should be 4 markbound crossover HQ options that integrate with each ( chaos lord on juggernaut,  sorcerer lord on disc of tzeentch basically already exist I think the noisemarine HQ would be a better fit than any hypothetical release, and for nurgle somehow the plague surgeon feels like a perfect fit.. as it also fills a general CSM gap. )

 

GW can't make everyone happy.. but I think the above method is a good compromise with few sacrifice... if people have the capability to see it that way.

[Evil Eye]

Yeah, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are like polar opposites- Death Guard stand on their own as a bespoke faction, Emperor's Children have precisely bugger all. A shame- Slaanesh daemon engines, loads of character models and a unique tank (maybe a fast tank festooned with sonic weaponry) on par with what the Death Guard got would have been awesome.

[Mogger351]

8 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Yeah, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are like polar opposites- Death Guard stand on their own as a bespoke faction, Emperor's Children have precisely bugger all. A shame- Slaanesh daemon engines, loads of character models and a unique tank (maybe a fast tank festooned with sonic weaponry) on par with what the Death Guard got would have been awesome.

I hope they get them before long, the lack of love shown for the Cults is a bit sad all round.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, TheMawr said:

 

EC too.. maybe even more so, fall in your first paragraph territory.. as in everyone who had a CSM EC army lost only lucius... the EC specific army just got less crossover.

 

And I think this is an important element that GW should validate more clearly ( it was clear that they see it like this with some things before ) ;

 

1. Have the 4 Cult troops not through weird ally systems but as fully integrated CSM codex datasheets, with a datasheet bound option that the warlord can unlock them as battleline ( usually just the appropriate mark, though I'd argue Fabius bile should unlock noise marines as well ) 

 

2. Have appropriate CSM detachments for each.. not colorbound as they have elements that would fit others too,likewise there are detachments that..  while themed for others still are appropriate for your CSM based World Eaters or Deathguard etc.

 

Ideally I think there also should be 4 markbound crossover HQ options that integrate with each ( chaos lord on juggernaut,  sorcerer lord on disc of tzeentch basically already exist I think the noisemarine HQ would be a better fit than any hypothetical release, and for nurgle somehow the plague surgeon feels like a perfect fit.. as it also fills a general CSM gap. )

 

GW can't make everyone happy.. but I think the above method is a good compromise with few sacrifice... if people have the capability to see it that way.

Sure, and that’s precisely what people with pre-spinoff EC armies should probably do. Or slowly buy “EC” models to add on, and end up with two armies, along with crossover units like Rhinos and Demon Princes.

 

It even makes lore sense, as Chaos warbands vary greatly in their makeup. A warband led by an Emperor’s Children lord with a core of EC followers might end up merging with, recruiting, and absorbing various other elements, and this would be best represented on the table by the CSM book and not the EC one.

Edited 1 hour ago by Rain

[01RTB01]

54 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Yeah, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are like polar opposites- Death Guard stand on their own as a bespoke faction, Emperor's Children have precisely bugger all. A shame- Slaanesh daemon engines, loads of character models and a unique tank (maybe a fast tank festooned with sonic weaponry) on par with what the Death Guard got would have been awesome.

 

I'd love to see EC get some knights akin to those from old epic. Possibly one day.