New Chaos Models

[Nephaston]

Doesn't even need a different scale, just slightly more proportionate legs, imo almost contemptor length but not quite.

[Orange Knight]

13 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Levithan is the obvious pick, as it is similiar in size to the redemptor chassis. would make a nice counterpoint

 

I like this idea. 

 

You could have a stripped down/corrupted, chaos Leviathan for use in 40k as a dark mirror to the loyalist Redemptor.

[LSM]

12 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

New Chaos Dreadnoughts for the cult legions would be cool. I'd prefer they stay no bigger than a Contemptor though; I really don't care for the constant scale creep of literally everything. IMO at least the Redemptor is too damn big as it is- I feel like Helbrutes would work better as direct opponents if you could field them in squads of up to 3.

 

7 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Doesn't even need a different scale, just slightly more proportionate legs, imo almost contemptor length but not quite.

 

I'd seen others use spare Forgefiend legs on Helbrutes and thought they looked great, so did the same for my old EC 'brute (now running as a Daemon Prince).

 

While this is a bit smushed together from leftovers and green stuff, the upper body is Helbrute sized. Just changing the legs makes a big difference to its profile.

 

[Xirix]

I know it's not actually a dreadnought, but the Decimator was made as a counter for loyalist Leviathans, maybe they could use this as an excuse to make it in plastic, say that Vashtorr brought back the tech to mass produce them or something.

[Indy Techwisp]

23 hours ago, LSM said:

Likewise, instead of Possessed for TS, I'd go with little three-model Blade Coven units; psychically-thralled, Khopesh-wielding melee Sorcerers on Discs.

 

I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere, but TSons already have their "Exalted" unit(s) in the game: The Exalted Sorc and Exalted Sorc on Disc.

 

A TSons Possessed unit can't exactly slot between the Exalted and "normal" sorcs because then they're just more characters and ideally they shouldn't take up a role that should be filled by a Rubricae (like an Assault Marine Blade Cabal or a Heavy weapon Havoc-like unit).

 

A unit of what is essentially 40k Doomknights is a neat idea but they'd be competing against Tzaangor Enlightened in that role (who have being cheap as hell as a big selling point).

 

I'd rather we get a unit that is more akin to a proper BERSERKER representing TSons lost to the flesh change and possession beyond their ability to control.

[HeadlessCross]

23 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Conveniently ignoring the two unique terminators, bespoke daemon engines, unique cultists and numerous detachments that mean that they feel like playing death guard and totally different to CSM.

 

There's zero surprises here that you've chosen to ignore all that for a change.

They have one unique Terminator unit. Blightlords are not unique in any sense that a basic Terminator kit doesn't cover what they have besides the grenade launcher. CSM also already had access to the zombies with Typhus and the one FW Sorcerer. 

 

Also the Drone is not unique either, because it was already available to CSM armies from the FW datasheet. 

 

So yeah, none of that is worth losing a bunch of units just to gain 15 characters. 

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

They have one unique Terminator unit. Blightlords are not unique in any sense that a basic Terminator kit doesn't cover what they have besides the grenade launcher. CSM also already had access to the zombies with Typhus and the one FW Sorcerer. 

 

Also the Drone is not unique either, because it was already available to CSM armies from the FW datasheet. 

 

So yeah, none of that is worth losing a bunch of units just to gain 15 characters. 

Lets play silly beggars with the idea for the moment.

 

• The FW drone is Legends IIRC
• The FW character is legends IIRC

 

So they're both gone regardless.

 

Typhus and plague marines both exist - poxwalkers/zombies have been a bit in/out over the editions.

 

• Blightlords - partial analogy as they absolutely have different loadouts to chaos terminators - partial loss
• Deathshroud - no analogy - pure loss
• Powalkers as above - depends which edition, likely a loss as a general unit
• Blight drone - no analogy - pure loss as noted above unless legends play
• Blight hauler - no analogy - pure loss
• Plagueburst crawler - no analogy - pure loss
• Weird bong terrain - no analogy - no idea if it even ahs rules, pure loss if so

This is ignoring the characters, this is ignoring you're trading the contagion rules for dark pacts, that all but 1 of the detachments would be gone at best.

 

In reality you trade all of that to get some generic chaos marine kits with +1 T on their stats line. Woo. Much excite. 

[01RTB01]

56 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

They have one unique Terminator unit. Blightlords are not unique in any sense that a basic Terminator kit doesn't cover what they have besides the grenade launcher. CSM also already had access to the zombies with Typhus and the one FW Sorcerer. 

 

Also the Drone is not unique either, because it was already available to CSM armies from the FW datasheet. 

 

So yeah, none of that is worth losing a bunch of units just to gain 15 characters. 

 

I'm sorry but I'm sure you wake every day wondering how you can troll on here. 

 

I should know better than to feed you. Genuinely, why do you do this daily? You just thrown contention/ argumentative nonsense for the sake of it. Do you enjoy it? Is it fun?

 

Honestly, I don't get it.

[LSM]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere, but TSons already have their "Exalted" unit(s) in the game: The Exalted Sorc and Exalted Sorc on Disc.

 

A TSons Possessed unit can't exactly slot between the Exalted and "normal" sorcs because then they're just more characters and ideally they shouldn't take up a role that should be filled by a Rubricae (like an Assault Marine Blade Cabal or a Heavy weapon Havoc-like unit).

 

A unit of what is essentially 40k Doomknights is a neat idea but they'd be competing against Tzaangor Enlightened in that role (who have being cheap as hell as a big selling point).

 

I'd rather we get a unit that is more akin to a proper BERSERKER representing TSons lost to the flesh change and possession beyond their ability to control.

 

I'm not super well-versed on TS lore, but the Khenetai Blades were all Sorcerers, right? (In 30k they all have Force Swords and IIRC the Psyker keyword.) Lorefully, their whole deal was that they were psychically linked together so that the group fought as one (instead of as individuals). If one were to lift the concept for a 40k unit, that sounds like it would make a good little 3-man elite Sorcerer unit, rather than a more regular melee Rubricae squad. (And then, because I don't like the idea of straight-lifting 30k concepts for 40k, put them on Discs and... I don't know, give them nine arms or something.

 

//

 

The basic "Thousand Sons Marine" went through an interesting evolution themselves.

• Rogue Trader: the marines without the psychic talent to make use of their knowledge, they were the same as Traitor Marines except that they produced an aura which "Any friendly Wizard-Champion" could tap into for an extra "D6 magic/psychic points".
• 1996: The concept of the Cult Legions is introduced, and in the designer commentary it's actually the "Tzeentchian Sorcerers" who are named as the Cult (alongside "Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, [and] Noise Marines"). The Thousand Sons Marines were the only Cult Troops which required a Cult Character to be present in order to take, but while they were (at this point) "spirit warriors" - souls trapped in their armour - their default loadout was actually just a Bolt Pistol and Frag Grenades. Bolters were an upgrade, and they had full access to the Assault Weapons (ie. melee weapons) list and three models able to take Special or Heavy Weapons. 
• 1999: they became Bolter locked, unable to take any Special/Heavy Weapons (let alone melee weapons).
• 2002: "Inferno Bolts" are new Tzeentch Character wargear (which lets a Bolt Weapon use a Blast Template). Rubrics still Bolter locked. (Note: this is when the whole "nemes/Pharaonic-helmet" look solidified - in '96 and '99 they were still being shown with the regular CSM horns and top knots. I assume this is why Ahriman, a '96 character, has giant horns on his helmet which kind of make his look incongruous with the rest of the modern Thousand Sons.) 
• 2007: Rubrics still Bolter locked, but they gain Inferno Bolts as standard, which now confer AP3.
• 2012: Rubrics still Bolter locked, Inferno Bolts still give AP3.
• 2016: new (first, really) Rubric Marines kit, give them all the option of Warpflamers and one a Soulreaper Cannon.

So while the early days had Rubric's with a bit more personality (full Plasma Pistol and Power Fist, etc. squads!), eventually the idea seemed (to me) to be that these were somewhat "robotic" and therefore... limited.

 

While that can change (or other people can have completely different conceptions to me), it feels like if you start giving Rubricae too broad a remit they lose that identity. 

 

//

 

A Sorcerer who's lost control strikes me as a Spawn. (Or the sort of individual who would have gotten Rubric'd in the first place. Can a Sorcerer end up failing to resist the effect of the Rubric later in their life?)

 

Edited 3 hours ago by LSM

[sitnam]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

A unit of what is essentially 40k Doomknights is a neat idea but they'd be competing against Tzaangor Enlightened in that role (who have being cheap as hell as a big selling point).

 

I don't think the two would preclude each other. If loyalists can have multiple unit types overlapping in ways, I don't see why we can't have 40k Doom Knight heavy cavalry to the Tzaangor light cavalry

[Nephaston]

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere, but TSons already have their "Exalted" unit(s) in the game: The Exalted Sorc and Exalted Sorc on Disc.

 

A TSons Possessed unit can't exactly slot between the Exalted and "normal" sorcs because then they're just more characters and ideally they shouldn't take up a role that should be filled by a Rubricae (like an Assault Marine Blade Cabal or a Heavy weapon Havoc-like unit).

 

A unit of what is essentially 40k Doomknights is a neat idea but they'd be competing against Tzaangor Enlightened in that role (who have being cheap as hell as a big selling point).

 

I'd rather we get a unit that is more akin to a proper BERSERKER representing TSons lost to the flesh change and possession beyond their ability to control.

They could also go the route of TS possessed being a failed avenue of fixing the rubric, like stuffing the suits full of brimstone horrors, mixed in with the dust resulting in a swirling fire elemental/dust devil.

Or instead of having the rubric marine become possessed, have them wield possessed weapons shackled to them in an effort to keep the weapon away from others the respective exalted sorcerer doesn't trust while still getting to use them. And while possessed melee weapons would be the usual niche I would love to see a daemon rocket launcher or a marine-portable stormlaser.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

I'm not super well-versed on TS lore, but the Khenetai Blades were all Sorcerers, right? (In 30k they all have Force Swords and IIRC the Psyker keyword.) Lorefully, their whole deal was that they were psychically linked together so that the group fought as one (instead of as individuals). If one were to lift the concept for a 40k unit, that sounds like it would make a good little 3-man elite Sorcerer unit, rather than a more regular melee Rubricae squad. (And then, because I don't like the idea of straight-lifting 30k concepts for 40k, put them on Discs and... I don't know, give them nine arms or something.

 

During the Horus Heresy (almost) all of the TSons were Psykers, but that didn't protect the majority from the Rubric.

The Scarab Occult Terminators were the former Sekhemet Terminators, some of the strongest Psykers in the Legion but even they had many transform into dust when the Rubric was cast.

In a 40k context, the Blade Cabal would most likely be mostly Rubricae due to how wide ranging the Rubric was.

 

 

1 hour ago, LSM said:

A Sorcerer who's lost control strikes me as a Spawn. (Or the sort of individual who would have gotten Rubric'd in the first place. Can a Sorcerer end up failing to resist the effect of the Rubric later in their life?)

 

There's a few examples of TSons Sorcs just kinda... transforming themselves for no good reason.

Heck, one Sorc intentionally did a big ritual to turn himself into a worm. Why? Who knows.

A Sorc who's "lost control" and devolved entirely would be a Spawn, yes. But a Sorc who has unintentionally done the Eightbound thing to themselves or turned back on the Flesh Change and grown big claws and stuff but not devolved into a meatball would probably need a different statblock than the Spawn.