New Chaos Models

[Orange Knight]

5 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Irrelevant, the lore still has loyalist marines chapters owning contemptors.  The fact it has a legends profile for gaming acknowledges this fact.

 

Custodians still have them as well…

 

We're not talking about the lore. We're talking about the tabletop.

 

The lore exists to serve the tabletop, not the other way around. I think people tend to forget this.

 

I'm making a realistic prediction and outlining what I would personally like to see for the Chaos range going forward, keeping in mind the trends we've seen over the last 10+ years.

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Ok, how do you feel about the leviathan?

The Leviathan is a mighty relic of the Heresy, it and its ilk intended to be frightfully rare in the 41st Millennium. I like it, with the caveat I'd like it a lot less if it was suggested everyone and their mother had one of them and they were running around the galaxy. Powerful and rare archeotech is coolest when it's, you know, rare.

 

It's also a very specialized walker intended as a siege-breaker rather than the general support role of the Castraferrum or Contemptor and thus not directly comparable, as it is A: intended for less common and more specific use-cases than its smaller brethren and B: is designed with very different specifications. The fact that the Redemptor is supposed to replace the Castraferrum but is the same size as the Leviathan just doesn't work for me- they're just not the same thing.

[Indy Techwisp]

40 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

The Leviathan is a mighty relic of the Heresy, it and its ilk intended to be frightfully rare in the 41st Millennium. I like it, with the caveat I'd like it a lot less if it was suggested everyone and their mother had one of them and they were running around the galaxy. Powerful and rare archeotech is coolest when it's, you know, rare.

 

It's also a very specialized walker intended as a siege-breaker rather than the general support role of the Castraferrum or Contemptor and thus not directly comparable, as it is A: intended for less common and more specific use-cases than its smaller brethren and B: is designed with very different specifications. The fact that the Redemptor is supposed to replace the Castraferrum but is the same size as the Leviathan just doesn't work for me- they're just not the same thing.

 

The Redemptor being physically large is a design choice they made when deciding what role a Primaris Dreadnaught would have.

It is no longer a tool designed to enter the cramped corridors of Space Hulks (that's what you use the still in service Castaferrums for), rather it is now a force multiplier for troops on a semi-standard open-or-urban battlefield. It being large and heavily armoured is an advantage in this theatre and it's role in targeting Heavier enemy assets.

 

This really doesn't mean that much, other than to say that an upscaled Helbrute shouldn't grow to match a Redemptior as they don't really serve the same role (iirc the one in SM2 is still noticeably smaller than the Redemptor despite being larger in comparison than the model is), it just needs to grow to match the scale of the Legionnaires.

 

As for wanting another Chaos Dred, I Will remind you that CSM, TSons, WE and DG all share one dred option, where as LSM and all their supplements have FOUR (five if you could the Invictor Warsuit which is a Dred chassis used like a Mech from Avatar) along with some supplement exclusive Dred options.

The idea of this hypothetical second dred not also being a hulking flesh abomination is mostly for aesthetics and ease of use for the Chaos factions who are less... flesh-monstery (like TSons and Alpha Legion. Also Iron Warriors who are mostly metal monstrosities instead).

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It would be good to give CSM players another Dreadnought. The Helbrute certainly has its place (I'm actually quite fond of the model myself) but a more 'traditional' Dreadnought would be nice. The boxnaught or the Contemptor with a chaos upgrade sprue would be groovy.

 

Any imfo on when these things might actually release? Are we talking a big release for 11th, or could this be a end of edition release?

[Indy Techwisp]

7 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

It would be good to give CSM players another Dreadnought. The Helbrute certainly has its place (I'm actually quite fond of the model myself) but a more 'traditional' Dreadnought would be nice. The boxnaught or the Contemptor with a chaos upgrade sprue would be groovy.

 

Any imfo on when these things might actually release? Are we talking a big release for 11th, or could this be a end of edition release?

 

The actual point of the thread was new CSM Mutilators (possible multibuild kit with Obliterators) and a new Defiler kit with Cult Legion parts on the sprue for customisability.

 

There's also the whole "possible Iron Warriors" release thing as well.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

When did the Defiler come out? Was it '99? 

 

I'm curious as to why they would give a new Defiler parts for EC or World Eaters when they could give those factions their own unique Daemon Engines. 

[Scribe]

6 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

When did the Defiler come out? Was it '99? 

 

I'm curious as to why they would give a new Defiler parts for EC or World Eaters when they could give those factions their own unique Daemon Engines. 

 

Because CSM as a macro faction still exists, because its easier to add a bit/sprue, than 5 (CSM, TS, DG, WE, EC) kits?

[Indy Techwisp]

13 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

When did the Defiler come out? Was it '99? 

 

I'm curious as to why they would give a new Defiler parts for EC or World Eaters when they could give those factions their own unique Daemon Engines. 

 

WE already have the Defiler iirc and EC have a severe lack of Armour.

 

Also in Lore the Defiler is the most common kind of Daemon Engine for some reason, so it makes sense that everyone can have it.

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

The Leviathan is a mighty relic of the Heresy, it and its ilk intended to be frightfully rare in the 41st Millennium. I like it, with the caveat I'd like it a lot less if it was suggested everyone and their mother had one of them and they were running around the galaxy. Powerful and rare archeotech is coolest when it's, you know, rare.

 

It's also a very specialized walker intended as a siege-breaker rather than the general support role of the Castraferrum or Contemptor and thus not directly comparable, as it is A: intended for less common and more specific use-cases than its smaller brethren and B: is designed with very different specifications. The fact that the Redemptor is supposed to replace the Castraferrum but is the same size as the Leviathan just doesn't work for me- they're just not the same thing.

That's fine that you don't like the castaferrum being updated to the redemptor, but it is what it is. You need to accept it even if you don't like it. The helbrute due to warp juice is whatever size it needs to be I think in reality. As long as it doesnt get bigger "because redemptor thicc" or whatever, fine by me.

 

I think it's fair to say you like the game in it's past, desperately wanting those rose tinted days back. That's a fair perception and pov to have, however it doesn't mean the current units, setting and fluff are wrong. It's a happier time if you're not forever fighting the now in the name of the then.

[Kharn13]

Just going to put this soul grinder artwork here from Warhammer IG back in summer. Would love this Khorne variant. 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

You need to accept it even if you don't like it.

No, I absolutely do not. And I'm not going to either. If GW makes what I consider to be terrible decisions I will complain about them, as is my right. You're welcome to disagree of course, but telling me I need to just accept GW erasing everything I like about the setting is incredibly condescending.

[Indy Techwisp]

12 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

No, I absolutely do not. And I'm not going to either. If GW makes what I consider to be terrible decisions I will complain about them, as is my right. You're welcome to disagree of course, but telling me I need to just accept GW erasing everything I like about the setting is incredibly condescending.

 

There's a difference between accepting that something happened and agreeing with that thing happening.

 

GW aren't going to turn around and revert the entire game to 7th edition no matter how much people complain otherwise they would've done so right when 8ths started.

 

ETA:

I should also note something about the Redemptor Chassis specifically.

Even tho they changed a lot with the Primaris Marines, some of the designs are also intended to be semi-throwbacks to Heresy stuff.

I could see the intention behind the Redemptor being so big is Cawl realising that if he just ignores basically all the rules like always he can mass produce a slightly worse Leviathan Dreadnaught for as cheap as the Castaferrum, and then deal with any issues discovered in the field as "holy maintenance instructions" for the Techmarines afterwards.

Edited 9 hours ago by Indy Techwisp

[Mogger351]

7 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

No, I absolutely do not. And I'm not going to either. If GW makes what I consider to be terrible decisions I will complain about them, as is my right. You're welcome to disagree of course, but telling me I need to just accept GW erasing everything I like about the setting is incredibly condescending.

The redemptor is not going anywhere, it isn't nonsensical in any capacity. As a result you'll have to enjoy spending the next however many years 40k exists refusing to accept it's existence.

 

Edit: what Indy said basically.

Edited 9 hours ago by Mogger351

[Robbienw]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

We're not talking about the lore. We're talking about the tabletop.

 

The lore exists to serve the tabletop, not the other way around. I think people tend to forget this.

 

I'm making a realistic prediction and outlining what I would personally like to see for the Chaos range going forward, keeping in mind the trends we've seen over the last 10+ years.

This is objectively false.  The models are the key part of Warhammer, then the lore that goes around them.  The game exists to service the models.  Hence why units get designed first and their rules are done after that.  It’s always been models and background led.

 

Your argument is still inconsistent.  A chaos version of the Redemptor is consistent with 40k lore and models design paradigms.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Robbienw

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Your argument is still inconsistent.  A chaos version of the Redemptor is consistent with 40k lore and models design paradigms.  

 

Good thing we have explicitly not been saying we want that then, isn't it?

 

Heck, the Redemptors are only involved in this argument so we can point at them and say "Look how many they have and how small the one we share is in comparison. Why can't we get another one?"

Edited 8 hours ago by Indy Techwisp

[Indy Techwisp]

I feel like if this conversation was instead about making the Castaferrum slightly larger to match the "Accurate Firstborn" scale used by Horus Heresy and CSM there wouldn't be anywhere near as many arguments against it 

[01RTB01]

37 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

There's a difference between accepting that something happened and agreeing with that thing happening.

 

GW aren't going to turn around and revert the entire game to 7th edition no matter how much people complain otherwise they would've done so right when 8ths started.

 

 

I genuinely hope not as 7th (and 9th) were both horrific Dumpster fires. The best thing to come out of 7th was heresy 1.0.