Apocalypsing 3.0 - ideas

[Valkyrion]

Just mulling over the potential of a big battle over the christmas period using the normal 3.0 as a basis to try and get approx 6000 a side done in about 6 hours casually.

 

Some ideas so far are;

No reactions, no challenges, no set up moves

No Cool, WP or Int. 

All shooting attacks hit on standard BS with no modifiers.

No initiative modifiers in melee - whoever's turn it is fights first with all melee weapons. Exceptions would apply to things like Primarchs, Knights, and certain units. 

Charges are standard 12" so if in range cannot fail. 

 

IGOUGO play, but nothing dies until the end of each turn. 

You would still roll to hit, wound and save as normal, but wounds wouldn't actually remove casualties until the end phase (victory phase?). In practice this would mean that your 10 man Tactical Squad that has suffered 10 wounds is technically dead, but still gets its turn.  If it has suffered 8 wounds, then it still acts as though it has 10 models until the end phase. In the next turn, that squad would act like a 2 man tactical squad.

 

Tactical Statuses are reduced to Pinning and Panic by hits and casualties;

If an infantry or cavalry unit is hit twice as many times as it has wounds by a single attack, it has to take a Pinning test. (e.g, a 10 man tactical squad would need to be hit 20 times in a single volley).

If an infantry or cavalry unit has suffered at least half as many wounds as it had at the start of the turn, it must take a Panic test.

If a walker or vehicle (or monster?) suffers half its wounds or hull points from a single attack, it must test for pinning. 

These tests are immediate and apply immediately. A Pinned unit can be panicked, but a panicked unit cannot be pinned.

 

 

I'm sure I've overlooked loads, but as a first run are there any opinions on the above?

Cheers!

 

[SlickSamos]

A kinda silly idea is to use Legion Imperialis rules or Epic rules to do big battles?  I'd call it Epic 28 as a silly riff off of Inquisitor 28 

 

Quick agree / disagree:

No reactions - agree

No challenges - agree except perhaps when Primarchs are in combat with each other they must fight a challenge (either 2nd or 3rd edition rules)

No set up moves - agree when combined with charges changes

No Cool, WP or Int. - agree

All shooting attacks hit on standard BS with no modifiers - neither agree/disagree, as volley fire could be too strong for certain units 

No initiative modifiers in melee, whoever's turn it is fights first with all melee weapons - disagree, casualties resolve during 'victory phase' (below), use HH 2nd Ed power weapons & power fist etc... except Unwieldy means -1 to hit

Charges are standard 12" so if in range cannot fail - agree, but need to consider impact on terrain and faster units 

 

IGOUGO play, but nothing dies until the end of each turn... - agree

 

Tactical Statuses are reduced to Pinning and Panic by hits and casualties... - agree, but apply at end of turn instead of immediately 

 

Further ideas:

Get rid of volley fire entirely 

 

If the resolve casualties at end of turn gets too complicated, consider either Lord of the Rings activation:

• I move all units
• You move all units
• I shoot, run or assault move all units
• You shoot, run or assault move all units
• We fight
• Then figure out who is going first next turn (randomised or alternate)

Or Bolt Action activation:

• Set # of coloured chits in bag equal to number of units (different colour per player or side)
• Pull a chit from a bag, each time your colour is pulled, activate a unit

Activate unit by:

• Either Move up to 6" & Shoot; or,
• Move up to 12" & Fight (only your unit fights, but use HH 2nd Ed power weapons & power fist etc... except Unwieldy means -1 to hit)

Or activate unit by:

• Either Move up to 6" & Shoot; or,
• Move up to 12"

Then at end of turn resolve all combats

[Valkyrion]

58 minutes ago, SlickSamos said:

A kinda silly idea is to use Legion Imperialis rules or Epic rules to do big battles?  I'd call it Epic 28 as a silly riff off of Inquisitor 28 

 

Quick agree / disagree:

No reactions - agree

No challenges - agree except perhaps when Primarchs are in combat with each other they must fight a challenge (either 2nd or 3rd edition rules)

No set up moves - agree when combined with charges changes

No Cool, WP or Int. - agree

All shooting attacks hit on standard BS with no modifiers - neither agree/disagree, as volley fire could be too strong for certain units 

No initiative modifiers in melee, whoever's turn it is fights first with all melee weapons - disagree, casualties resolve during 'victory phase' (below), use HH 2nd Ed power weapons & power fist etc... except Unwieldy means -1 to hit

Charges are standard 12" so if in range cannot fail - agree, but need to consider impact on terrain and faster units 

 

IGOUGO play, but nothing dies until the end of each turn... - agree

 

Tactical Statuses are reduced to Pinning and Panic by hits and casualties... - agree, but apply at end of turn instead of immediately 

 

Further ideas:

Get rid of volley fire entirely 

 

If the resolve casualties at end of turn gets too complicated, consider either Lord of the Rings activation:

• I move all units
• You move all units
• I shoot, run or assault move all units
• You shoot, run or assault move all units
• We fight
• Then figure out who is going first next turn (randomised or alternate)

Or Bolt Action activation:

• Set # of coloured chits in bag equal to number of units (different colour per player or side)
• Pull a chit from a bag, each time your colour is pulled, activate a unit

Activate unit by:

• Either Move up to 6" & Shoot; or,
• Move up to 12" & Fight (only your unit fights, but use HH 2nd Ed power weapons & power fist etc... except Unwieldy means -1 to hit)

Or activate unit by:

• Either Move up to 6" & Shoot; or,
• Move up to 12"

Then at end of turn resolve all combats

 

The LotR and Bolt Action things seem interesting, but I was trying to avoid the use of activation tokens and the like - so sticking with traditional movement, shooting, charging and fighting phases. I also find that AA actually prolongs the first two turns as there are too many units and trying to math out all the permutations can lead to overthinking.

Also, if I move all my guys, then he moves all his guys, when it comes to shooting we've got remember Heavy and Ordnance and think back 20 units and an hour ago. In IGOUGO you only have to remember a few units and less time ago. Maybe not the best example, but you get the idea. 

I don't want the mechanics changing too much, but I want some of the minutiae and nuance ironing out. 

 

Agree with removing volley fire, yep!

 

With regards to melee - why do you suggest using 2nd ed power weapon rules? Just because there's less to remember?

I'm not concerned with faster units charging further as they can move further before charging. Could maybe let Cavalry or Antigrav charge after running. 

Good idea about Primarchs (and/or warlords) having challenges. Being cinematic is why Apoc exists after all and there'll only be 1 a game, in theory. 

 

Finally with regards to terrain I'm only really bothered about line of sight for something like this. If you can see it you can charge it or shoot it - get those dice rolling and not worry about how much of a unit is in cover or where your sergeant is positioned. 

[SlickSamos]

RE: 2nd Ed HH weapon types, it's because if you remove initiative modifiers with no penalty, then Fist, Axes etc... become way too good.  Whereas all unwieldy getting -1 to Hit would kind of keep the balance 8th Ed 40k style.  

 

It'll probably have to be a half way house between the two:
Sword S+0 AP3 D1 Breaching 6+

Maul S+2 AP3 D1

Axe S+1 AP2 D1 Unwieldy (-1 to hit)

Spear S+1 AP3 D1 Precision (6+)

Power Fist S+4 AP2 D2 Unwieldy

 

RE: Different activations, those are all good points!