500 Worlds Detachments, Future Proofing, and 11th Edition

[jaxom]

Making a new thread for the wider ranging discussion that's not all about 500 Worlds. Can be about the detachments themselves, or what they might mean for the future of Space Marine rules.

 

  

13 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

What I would like to see is a completely different faction rule. OoM is so dull, and is just a flat damage boost that makes balance more difficult. Fingers crossed for 11th edition!

 

None of the 500 Worlds detachments have Armour of Contempt. It's possible that a new army rule for 11th effectively replaces it.

 

Cursed Moneky Paw right here. I wanted a Battleline Detachment and got this instead. I think the GW rules team continues to fail at giving Marine players a reason to build around Battleline units. This detachment is probably looking at 4 min-sized squads of Intercessors and once they are dead there is no detachment rule. I do think there are shenanigans one can do with the enhancements, but they don't make me excited to play Intercessors. Assault Intercessors get more of a boost because the can Advance and Charge. I think there could be something here for Salamanders because of Adrax Agatone and a Lt with the armor penetration enhancement make an Intercessor Squad punch up in combat. However, there's no AoC and it's a 3+ save unit.

 

... I may still try to get it to work without special characters.

 

I don't think the Drop Pod bonus is incentive for taking more than one or two pods; it's effectively a once per battle bonus. The strats a nice, but I don't think provide enough oomph to make up for a mediocre detachment rule.

 

I think this provides an interesting option for high-pressure lists with lots of Bladeguard.

[jaxom]

  

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Interesting point of note, is the titanic word there just to cover legends in the deepstrike one?

I think so. Only Astartes Titanic unit I can recall off the top of my head is the Atraeus (sic) tank,

[HeadlessCross]

I disagree on the Strats for the Drop Pod detachment being nice. They're too scattered and unfocused vs being a toolbox. For example, it's wild to have a Strat regarding going back into a transport. I think the army rule itself might be good. However, all but one of the Enhancements (the Scouts one) don't spark joy and the Strats aren't good. I think it was a fail but at least you'll do Drop Pods slightly better?

 

The Battleline one, however, is an interesting alternative to Gladius/Stormlance. It solves the issue for both range Intercessor units without the need for a Lieutenant or one big fallback turn, and I think it has potential for anyone that prefers to play objectives. It's boring, but I think it'll be effective. In particular I think it's interesting for Space Wolves for their Blood Claws (Grey Hunters are still a miss) and Deathwatch for the basic Killteam (you can round out your shields and Thunder Hammers with two each of the Infernus Heavy Bolters and Frag Cannons). 

 

Ultramarines one I haven't really gone through heavily but it's a neat toolbox of Strats and a good rule overall you'll get use out of. 

[Malakithe]

Hmm thinking about a 'oops all assault Ints' type thing for the Bastion one. I really think with this one you want to go haam with Ints...flood the board with bodies. Also how does the Hero of the Chapter enhancement work? The bearer gets the battleline keyword but how does that interact with the rest of the unit? The armor pen enhancement seems like a no brainer for a leader with assault Ints.

[jaxom]

My biggest question about flooding the board with Intercessors and/or Assault Intercessor is what is the damage spike? LAG Assault Intercessor horde gets the big charge bonus. Is the idea to instead drown objectives in bodies while keeping opponent's units dogpiled?

 

31 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

how does the Hero of the Chapter enhancement work? The bearer gets the battleline keyword but how does that interact with the rest of the unit? The armor pen enhancement seems like a no brainer for a leader with assault Ints.

I think it is similar to Azrael joining Hellblasters? The character gets the Battleline keyword and then gives it to the unit they join. Personally, I'd rather combo two characters (one with become Battleline and the other with the penetration buff) into something like Aggressors or Terminators. They're harder to kill and I like the change from AP2 to AP3. 

 

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

They're too scattered and unfocused vs being a toolbox

I can see that. Each individually fits the theme of drop pods and stormravens, but they don't come together into a cohesive mechanical thing for gameplay.

[Tacitus]

The Battleline Det is bad.  I can go from everyone - especially the big slowpoke Aggressors and Terminators being able to Advance or Fall back, and then also shoot and/or charge every turn with Calgar is a Blade of Ultramar Det to just the Battle Line guys?

 

I think I'm missing some portion of the Rapid Deployment thing.  Select two units and give them Deep Strike.  When you Deep Strike or Outflank, or just have a wacky rule that lets you get setup again - like say Guilliman dying and making his roll Or Lion (and other units doing the Green Knight thing(Remove and Redeploy) (I don't see a UM Only restriction on this one) - get a bonus.  When You disembark out of a Drop Pod get a double bonus? 

 

[SvenIronhand]

9 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

The Battleline Det is bad.  I can go from everyone - especially the big slowpoke Aggressors and Terminators being able to Advance or Fall back, and then also shoot and/or charge every turn with Calgar is a Blade of Ultramar Det to just the Battle Line guys?

 

Not everyone plays Ultras. Shocking fact, I know.

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Hmm thinking about a 'oops all assault Ints' type thing for the Bastion one. I really think with this one you want to go haam with Ints...flood the board with bodies. Also how does the Hero of the Chapter enhancement work? The bearer gets the battleline keyword but how does that interact with the rest of the unit? The armor pen enhancement seems like a no brainer for a leader with assault Ints.

In a pretty crappy way right now. If I'm reading the commentary right. 

Quote

■ If a rule specifies that it applies to a model/unit with a Keyword, it only applies to a model/unit with that keyword on its datasheet.

■ If a rule specifies that it applies to ‘non-Keyword’ models/units, it only applies to models/units that do not have that keyword. For example, if a rule applies to non-Vehicle units, it only applies to units that do not have the Vehicle keyword.

■ Some units can contain models that have different keywords. While this is the case, such a unit is considered to have all of the keywords of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to units with any of those keywords. Remember that attacks are made against units, not models

Hero of the Chapter: Adeptus Astartes model only. While the bearer is leading a unit, the bearer has the Battleline keyword.

The Bearer has... 

The Unit has...

Eye of the Primarch: Adeptus Astartes model only. Ranged weapons equipped by the bearer and Battleline models in the bearer’s unit have the [PRECISION] ability

BATTLELINE models.  Which means if you stick a captain with Hero of the Chapter, and a Lieutenant with Eye of the Primarch into a 10 man Hellblaster Squad the Hellblaster Squad does not get Precision because the Unit is BATTLELINE but the HELLBLASTER models are not.   If it said the BATTLELINE unit got precision then they would have.  So it comes down to what the other ability for BATTLELINE specifies, model or unit. 

5 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

Not everyone plays Ultras. Shocking fact, I know.

I'm pretty sure the Battle Line Det is bad compared to their Bespoke Chapter Det too.

 

Edit to add: The point was this new Det was already "less" than the previous new one that came out just before this one did and worked the same game mechanic. 

Edited January 7 by Tacitus

[Tacitus]

Here's an Interesting Question:  

Assumption 1: You're going to use this Det

Assumption 2:  Eye of the Primarch is specifically written to prevent giving Precision to non-BATTLELINE models (And Hero of the Chapter is specifically written to prevent giving BATTLELINE to non-BATTLELINE models except the LEADER who took the Enhancement)  Ergo:  There is/will-be no way to make a DEVASTATOR, HELLBLASTER (etc) Squad into BATTLELINE for PRECISION from EYE OF THE PRIMARCH.

Assumption 3:  There are/will be only the four BATTLELINE default units Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, Heavy Intercessors and Tactical Squads.

 

Do you give Eye of the Primarch to a LEADER in an Intercessor or HINT squad?  40 Precision Paper Cuts sounds kinda mean. 

Edited January 8 by Tacitus

[Tacitus]

Did a deep dive and some of the things that jump out at me:

 

Bastion Task Force:

The Detachment rule feels weak.  Auspex feels like it will have the same up-time problems as Battleshocked.

Assault Intercessors are going to love Blades of Valour.

Eye of the Primarch on 10 Intercessors or HINTs will be very annoying. 

Codex Discipline is somewhat of a second OOM and probably should have just gone for a "Treat this target as your OOM Target until the end of the phase) like they've been doing elsehwere.

Light of Vengeance being either/and/or is going to trip some people up and makes it pretty good.

Shock Bombardment and Guided Disruption are fairly strong hits Pinned and Suppressed will be making a comeback in 11th.

Angels Defiant could be a replacement for Armor of Contempt or a potential partner.

 

Orbital Assault Force:

The Detachment Rule is a double edged sword.  You only get five turns, and putting more stuff into Reserve just means you get less stuff to play with on fewer turns, so when they DO come onto the board you have to make that Alpha Strike turn from each unit matter. 

Laurels of Thunder is kind of weak considering Terminator Captains have it all the time.

Veterans of the Vanguard and Orbital Uplink Reliquary are both fairly common Captain rules.

Suppresion Strafing: more Suppresed rule.

 

Tactical Decapitation - likely to be the first thing nerfed out of all of these.  Think:  Land Raider Variants, Eradicator Squads, Vindicator Demolisher Cannons, Ballistus Dreads, Centurion Devastator Squads, Desolation Squads, and so on - Basically anything that can land 5+ Lascannon, Superkrak, etc shots with PRECISION.  "Yeah I'm going to shoot at Abadon's squad with 6 Twin Linked Lascannon shots to reroll the to-wound, and basically 12 Krak Missiles.  Oh and I get +1 to Hit and can assign them all to Abby.   And its a strat, so you can do it all day as long as you have enough Giant Cannon and/or thousand points of light units.   The only Characters that are safe are the ones who have some durable form of Lone Operative.  Someone else would have to do the math, but I'm not 100% sure even The Silent King can withstand 6 Cent Devs using PRECISION to avoid the Menhir. 

 

Autosense Coordination seems to be a faily common end result (Pick LH or SH1) with different flavor requirements based on the Det.

 

Reclamation Force:

Det Rule:  Power Fists and MC Power Swords galore.  Additional -1AP to melee means AP-3 Fists, Hammers, and Swords. 

 

Seals of Reconquest - Very much want to put this on a lieutenant joining Sicarius leading Victrix Guard.  but can't.  Can do a generic Captain though.

Avenging Avatar - Put it on a shelf until you see Battleshock in 11th - unless you REALLY want to lean into Battleshock with Reivers and such making a "funny" if not especially/directly powerful army.

Scroll of Proclamation - downgraded Terminator Captain bespoke which will be nice piggybacked on the better Terminator Libby/Chaplain and especially a Terminator Ancient paired with Terminator Calgar.

Liberatum is probably the best choice but only slightly ahead of SoP above. 

Crusading Conquerors is a nice Whoopsie button, but not much more than that.

Furious Dedication + SoP Ancient, Plus Calgar and 10 other Terminators for the most mobile Terminator Death Star you've ever seen.  Move 5, Advance D6, Shoot, Charge 2D6+2 Rerollable

Ultramarian Destiny will be a big help if you do end up leaning into a lot of Bladeguard, Terminators, and some Victrix

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

In a pretty crappy way right now. If I'm reading the commentary right. 

I think you are; and if so, the Battleline enhancement in a non-Battleline Squad only benefits by giving access to the Angels Defiant strat. Hmm, actually forces one to really play Tag with auspex scan if bringing non-Battleline units.

 

33 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Bastion Task Force:

The Detachment rule feels weak.  Auspex feels like it will have the same up-time problems as Battleshocked.

Assault Intercessors are going to love Blades of Valour.

Eye of the Primarch on 10 Intercessors or HINTs will be very annoying. 

Codex Discipline is somewhat of a second OOM and probably should have just gone for a "Treat this target as your OOM Target until the end of the phase) like they've been doing elsehwere.

Light of Vengeance being either/and/or is going to trip some people up and makes it pretty good.

Shock Bombardment and Guided Disruption are fairly strong hits Pinned and Suppressed will be making a comeback in 11th.

Angels Defiant could be a replacement for Armor of Contempt or a potential partner.

It's not quite as bad a Battleshock, just need to hit the target unit and it is Scanned. There is going to be hop-scotching; make me think 1:1 or 3:2 for Battleline:Non-batteline if one is looking to optimize. It's been noted elsewhere that OoM isn't a Black Templar ability and this detachment can be used with them. I'd guess that's why Codex Discipline is written the way it is. I'm not sure where the "and" comes in for LoV? And how would one partner AD with AoC when AoC isn't in the detachment?

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

I think you are; and if so, the Battleline enhancement in a non-Battleline Squad only benefits by giving access to the Angels Defiant strat. Hmm, actually forces one to really play Tag with auspex scan if bringing non-Battleline units.D

It also gives you another unit to tag for Auspex Scans.  you can use the Enhancement to give Battleline to a non-Battleline unit  who can then use the Interlocking Tactics Det Rule

Quote

I'm not sure where the "and" comes in for LoV? And how would one partner AD with AoC when AoC isn't in the detachment?

Covering all the bases in LoV.  You can use if if you're A, and you can use if if you're B, and there's no restriction if you're A AND B.

 

As for Partnering AD and AoC I'm guessing at furture 11th Edition stuff.  

 

Edit to Add:  Also I would have thought the level of absolutely broken-ness that is the Tactical Decapitation would have been the bigger attention grabber. 

Edited January 8 by Tacitus

[Malakithe]

The auspex scan mechanic reads a bit like markerlighting. One unit tags and others benefit.

[jaxom]

 

On 1/7/2026 at 9:58 PM, jaxom said:

I think you are; and if so, the Battleline enhancement in a non-Battleline Squad only benefits by giving access to the Angels Defiant strat. Hmm, actually forces one to really play Tag with auspex scan if bringing non-Battleline units.

On 1/7/2026 at 10:42 PM, Tacitus said:

It also gives you another unit to tag for Auspex Scans.  you can use the Enhancement to give Battleline to a non-Battleline unit  who can then use the Interlocking Tactics Det Rule

Covering all the bases in LoV.  You can use if if you're A, and you can use if if you're B, and there's no restriction if you're A AND B.

 

As for Partnering AD and AoC I'm guessing at furture 11th Edition stuff.  

 

Edit to Add:  Also I would have thought the level of absolutely broken-ness that is the Tactical Decapitation would have been the bigger attention grabber. 

 

I also realised the enhancement gives the unit Shoot & Charge when Advancing. I like the idea of that on hard-hitting, elite assault units.

[HeadlessCross]

For the Drop Pod detachment, the most I can think of to make it work is:

1. Land Raider Redeemer (contents to be determined)

2. ×2 Vindicators or Redemptors

3. ×3 Drop Pods, with Devastators or Sternguard or Hellblasters

 

Is there enough points for that in a 2000 point game?

[HeadlessCross]

Alright just went to NewRecruit to make a rough draft. They don't have the Detachment on there yet but I can still get the points down.

 

Looking at the idea I just made, it's obvious: Iron Hands. 

 

Var

Feirros

Terminator Ancient (Dedicated Gunship)

 

×5 Devastators w/ Multi-Meltas

×5 Devastators w/ Multi-Meltas

×10 Sternguard w/ Heavy Bolters

×10 Sternguard w/ Heavy Bolters

×5 Assault Terminators w/ TH/SS

 

Land Raider Redeemer

Redemptor Dread w/ Plasma

Redemptor Dread w/ Plasma

 

×3 Drop Pods

 

No I don't think it'll be that effective. Yes I think it'll be hilarious. I was originally trying to fit in Aggressors AND Terminators with the Aggressors being in the Land Raider and get in a nice Rapid Ingress with the Terminators, but I guess Feirros could just stay in the Land Raider initially and then hide behind the Raider and Dreads to give out the handy +1 to hit. 

[jaxom]

Drop a redemptive for them?

[HeadlessCross]

6 hours ago, jaxom said:

Drop a redemptive for them?

Nah, Deep Striking Redemptors or Vindicators is what will make this detachment work. 

 

It's still only a rough draft though so I didn't put much serious thought into it. Just wanted to see if the everything I listed could fit to begin with. Likely I wouldn't even go the Iron Hands route and just do the regular Techmarine since the main benefit to Feirros is just healing W3 flat vs Wd3. 

[Galron]

I really like the Bastion detachment. It seems fun, buffs up basic infantry, which in my opinion most of any army should consist of, and gives options to make other units battleline. Its not like marines dont have some of the best battleline units already. All four choices are really good for the cost. If I had the time, I would try the tactical version with drop pods and some stern guard and devastators. Mass infantry seems fun.

I think I have the models on hand to run this. 

Captain with the battleline enhancement

Captain with jump pack  blades of valor

4 tac squads

Jump Intercessors x5

3 dev squads(Grav, lascannon, multi-melta) MM in a drop pod

2 Scout squads

10 sternguard drop pod

 Dreadnought drop pod

Iron clad(I dont care about legends)

 2 drop pods

1 razorback

160 infantry wounds a couple characters to buff things, a bunch of heavy weapons, and a cool dreadnought that should have never been discontinued. Tac squads can be split up into 8 different teams to Auspex things for the rest of the army for what its worth. Give each squad at least a heavy bolter or a lascannon so it can reach out and touch someone at range and effectively everything will be oathed or auspexed.

Edited January 13 by Galron

[jaxom]

I had an idea for a general core for Bastion detachment:

 

1) Either Calgar with a good unit or Suboden Khan with 3 Outriders. Gives a hard hitter that can advance and still do stuff without being battle line. Calgar because duh, and Khan because missile unit that can go through walls. 

2) 10 man assault Intercessor squad with an attached character with Valor’s Blades. I lean towards Librarian because there’s no AoC and these guys should be out there scrumming it up.

3) 6 man Bladeguard or other elite assault unit with an attached Chaplain or Judiciar with Hero of the Chapter.

4) 5-10 man Heavy Intercessor Squad with attached Biologis with Eye of the Primarch. I’d want to Mary out how many shots are needed to precision kill a Cryptek or similar unit before deciding on this unit’s size.

 

Then fill the remaining points with a few more battleline units and other types of units.

 

What do you all think?

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

I had an idea for a general core for Bastion detachment:

 

1) Either Calgar

I think if you're running Calgar looking for Advance/Fallback and Shoot and/or Charge shenanigans, you might as well run Blades of Ultramar so everything has Tactical all day long not just Battle Line.  But this got me thinking of Running Calgar + Blades to give Guilliman (in addition to everything else) Tactical Doctrine - Advanceing, Shooting and Charging Beatsticks, Oh My!.  I think this one is for Not-Calgar and/or the BATTLELINE focus and Tactical Doctrine for BATTLELINE is just one aspect/gravy - so I'd look to the Khan and Outriders, or Black Templars who don't have OOM - though I'd be pretty tempted to keep to an OOM ver 2.0 chapter from Codex Space Marines to get +1 to Hit Rerollable, and +1 to Wound for the Sniper HINTS.  Of course, as mentioned if I were leaning into the Sniper thing, I'd run Orbital with 6 Las/Missile Cent Devs (and other units in other threat bands like a bunch of Hellblasters) and just use the Tactical Decap Strat.   Cent Devs become Lascannon snipers (OOM) with +1 to Hit, rerollable and +1 to Wound, Rerollable PRECISION.  And if you're Deep Striking Guilliman and a pair of Redemptors, plus whatever gives Guilliman Lone Operative (Terminators?) then you have two OOM targets per phase.  Not that it would be easy (or even possible?) to fire off the strat twice - However, you can use it in your shooting phase, your fight phase, and their fight phase.  Meaning you have three POTENTIAL (Two must be fight phase units) strat uses per battle round and two OOM targets.  So the Cent Devs one-shot The Silent King in your shooting phase, Calgar and 10 Thunderhammer Termies do it to the Ctan Shard in your/their Fight phase?   I dunno, I'm still playing with that one in my head. 

[jaxom]

Those are some neat ideas!

 

I tend to avoid Gladius/BoU even though it is so good because I’m the sort of person who has an inventory of one use items at the end of a video game.

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

Those are some neat ideas!

 

I tend to avoid Gladius/BoU even though it is so good because I’m the sort of person who has an inventory of one use items at the end of a video game.

That's the reason I like Blade better than Gladius - its not one use, its three use. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I like the Bastion if you're going heavy on HINTs.  They're beefy enough that being that heavy on infantry isn't going to see your army just get picked up quickly; HINTs are pretty anemic in melee so the Detachment rule and Blades of Valor are both good buffs for them; Eye giving Precision to all those S5 AP1 D2 shots is going to be scary for most support HQs.  Bring some tanks for anti-vehicle/monster duty.

 

I'm still trying to formulate a list using my Iron Hands for this but half of my potential pool of HINTs are still unbuilt so my theory-crafting is half-hearted at the moment.

[jaxom]

I'd probably go with some Aggressors or Terminators to keep the HInts company and deal with the more threatening melee stuff. HInt melee profile can handle most non-melee units plus they can Fall Back and Shoot and Charge in Bastion so if the melee match up doesn't favor them, they can back out. I think Blades of Valor is more useful getting AP1 to AP2 or AP2 to AP3 depending on what you want to crack open.