More 11th Edition Boxset Rumours

[MoriyaSchism]

15 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

John Intercessor from the stream. Confirmed to not have any sculpted chapter-specific icons.

 

 

 

 

If we are going by just this image then my hopes aren't high for the re-done Intercessor kit. It's almost the exact same arm pose from the Space Marine Heroes/Kill Team Starter Set even down to belt pouch that's slightly open. I hope to see more than just one Aquila chest plate per box and I would love to see a full suite of hand options for both hands. The Primaris range has been insanely frustrating with its lack of alternate build options for hands. I'm asking for very little, they just need to replicate the hand options present in the Tactical Squad. If I can't get a 32mm Tactical Squad can I at least get some grenade throwing left hands? I spent my hobby time yesterday trying to build a left hand holding a grenade using a bit from the Riever kit. It's tiny things like this that drive me up the wall. 

[Lord Marshal]

Appears to be doing the rounds:

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[HeadlessCross]

Love the scale. 

[01RTB01]

That's a big boy.

[Nephaston]

Makes me wonder if the 2021 boyz kit will be scrapped entirely, seeing as boyz now carry all their weapons at once. Might be funny to rename the kit into Yoofs to keep the investment going. (And avoid existing ork armies having to glue on extra weapons, though I doubt ork players actually mind the prospect.)

[Marshal Reinhard]

You and the boy the warboss tells you not to worry about.

[Zoatibix]

Oh, I like him.  For me a definite improvement over the current boyz.  Looks like great fun to paint.

[ZeroWolf]

That appears to be a fully sculpted base as well. Wonder if that will be the Ork that is included in the "getting started" magazine.

[jaxom]

18 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

I'm not sure what's hard to understand about what I said. Do you want to argue that rolling for Warlord Traits and Psyker powers in 6th/7th was a good thing?

 

I don't want to argue at all; I want to understand. For example, One Page Rules combined wound/armor save into a single roll. I don't know if your criteria would classify that as good or bad.

 

18 hours ago, mecanojavi99 said:

They don't show up in the trailer but I'm pretty sure that is what the marine in the lower right corner of the box art is.

18 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Haven't seen them in the trailer either, but there is one on the box art.

 

I don't trust box art as a indicator for reasons others have already mentioned. However, I wouldn't be surprised if this Gravis unit was part of a post-launch Space Marine release; like how Jump Pack Intercessors came out after Leviathan.

 

Regarding older mark incorporation.

Spoiler

17 hours ago, Wispy said:

I dunno, I wouldn't say things like "that's not the typical mk x armour!" when it's just a kitbash people have been doing for 9 years.

 

I certainly want to give them the opportunity to show something a little more extreme! But I suspect it's something I've now already seen plenty of already painting the Space Wolves army box and they're hoping normal Space Marine collectors have forgotten.

14 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

John Intercessor is akkushually wearing a Mk. X helm. Only the frontal face plate with the mouth grill is older pattern. You can tell from the slanted ear design, that only Mk.X helmets have. This is actually a small detail I appreciate, since I've put out a lot of different full mark 7 helmets in my army, and there having been precious few ways to source these since their introduction with space wolf refresh.

 

But yeah, there's precious little mixed armor going on with this particular model.

13 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Sure, then I meant specifically the blood claws.

12 hours ago, Robbienw said:

Its a shame the Intercessor isn't more firstborn looking, still too many MKX parts, in particular the ever present knee rims.  Blood Claws did it much better.  Hopefully the rest of the squad have a greater degree of old armour and this chap is the least modified.

9 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

The updated MkVI & VII in the Raven Guard and Space Wolf kits has the same ear design as well, but the MkVI & VII helms in the Sternguard kits don't. It seems we have MkX, mixed MkX/another Mk & then the original Mks. Hopefully the full Intercessor kit includes plenty of all those options.

8 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Yes they do, making those helmets mk.x with older face plates as well. There are other differences mainly the ports on the back of the helm.

 

The helmets in the sternguard kit are actual bonafide wholesale older mark helmets, making them functionally indestinguishable from those in the older tactical sternguard devestator etc kits.

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

So the 1st Intercessor we've been shown is 100% Primaris MkX, except it has a different grill. His helmet isn't actually an older mark, only the grill is different, and the grill itself isn't Mk7 but a new variation that merely looks like the older designs.

Warhammer Community talk a game about older bits of armour being used, but I don't think the studio got that particular memo. All I see is a MkX variant, and variants of specific armour marks are nothing new. Look at the Horus Heresy and all the unique Mk4s, Mk6s, etc etc

5 hours ago, Robbienw said:

 

Stop it 

 

Its clearly a Mk7 grill/faceplate.  The preview stated they'd be using firstborn armour pieces, so get used to the idea.

 

Almost all of the throwback armor options have looked like Mk10 with different aesthetic takes to me (except the one Sternguard helmet).

 

Blood Claws, to me, either were given dead mens' shin guards and collar or those are aesthetic choices. The reason I do really like the Blood Claws and Grey Hunters is because they have so much individual and Chapter character compared to plain Assault/Intercessor kits. In that regard, I feel like it's 3rd edition all over again; before any other Chapters had kits for their basic troops which could match what Space Wolves launched with.

 

Huh, now that I think about... Black Templars were the real competition for Space Wolves in 3rd when it came to that. The Black Templar Primaris Crusaders have  have whole arm pieces not in Mk10 styling. I love the more medieval character of those arms, but I know I never thought they indicated it wasn't Mk10 armor.

 

Or yeah, newer marines are inheriting the grill portions of older armors, to explain the Mk6 and Mk7 looking heads. We know it is a discrete piece of the 3-part Space Marine helmet design all the way back from the old Mk6 exploded diagram.

 

11 hours ago, Jalleo said:

New and updated? Oh so I presume basically all the current detachments will be updated so its not anywhere close to 70 new detachments.

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

As I think about it, does Dread Talons even have a single advantage over Nightmare Hunt?

 

I think the updated detachments will be those like Dread Talons, which focus on a very limited number of units. I expect the more well-rounded detachments will remain untouched.

 

5 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

For me, if 100,000 rules exist, but I only use 10 per game, that feels less like bloat than only 50 rules exist, but you use 30 per game.

 

Bloat to me is about how much you are required to use, not how much exists. 

 

How much EXISTS is options, not bloat. (IMHO)

 

This is why 9th was my favourite edition.

Completely understandable. For me, it's just comparing the number of options I feel I need to know now (personally to feel like I am moderately away of what I may end up playing against) to that same thing back when I was in my playing prime... well, both my memory is not what it used to be and I don't have the same amount time to read rules 

[Crimson Longinus]

The ork boyz look great. Excellent proportions. Seems they are bigger than the beast snaggas though. 

[Toxichobbit]

4 minutes ago, jaxom said:

 

 

Blood Claws, to me, either were given dead mens' shin guards and collar or those are aesthetic choices. The reason I do really like the Blood Claws and Grey Hunters is because they have so much individual and Chapter character compared to plain Assault/Intercessor kits. In that regard, I feel like it's 3rd edition all over again; before any other Chapters had kits for their basic troops which could match what Space Wolves launched with.

 

Huh, now that I think about... Black Templars were the real competition for Space Wolves in 3rd when it came to that. The Black Templar Primaris Crusaders have  have whole arm pieces not in Mk10 styling. I love the more medieval character of those arms, but I know I never thought they indicated it wasn't Mk10 armor.

 

 

I agree about the most recent Grey Hunter and Blood Claw kits. They really have the feel of those original kits, which were my favourite Wolf kits. After that Wolf stuff seemed to get over-detailed and over-sculpted. The ones that came out last year toned it down like the originals and IMO, are better for it.

 

That said, they were the tail end of 1st edition, not 3rd. Black Templars didn't get any bespoke models until 4th (apart from a limited edition Emperor's Champion for some anniversary celebration).
 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

For me, if 100,000 rules exist, but I only use 10 per game, that feels less like bloat than only 50 rules exist, but you use 30 per game.

 

Bloat to me is about how much you are required to use, not how much exists. 

 

How much EXISTS is options, not bloat. (IMHO)

 

This is why 9th was my favourite edition.

 

(Note: The above is somewhat hyperbolic to emphasize the point I'm trying to make... Obviously there are limits, even for my personal tastes, but for me, no edition of 40k has hit them yet)

 

Also: The 70 new detachments: I suspect many will be the new "Half Detachment" things they're talking about, and most of them will just be modified Combat Patrol sized sets of detachment rules. So a Full Detachment will still be 1-3 rules, 4 enhancements, 6 Strats. But HALF DETACHMENTS will be 1 rule, 2 Enhancements and 3 strats (like Combat Patrol).

 

Basically, pretend they just said "Oh, in the new edition, you can play two allied Combat Patrol armies in the same game," and I suspect that's what's coming.

It’s bloat.  Most people don’t have the desire to learn a buttload of rules, just to find the 10 they’ll actually use.

 

id rather learn 50 rules and need to use 45 of them on the regular, than learn 100 and only use 10 on the regular.

 

 

i feel like what you described is the very definition of bloat. Your example means the game is so bloated that 99.9% of the rules in the game are completely useless and unnecessary.

[HeadlessCross]

27 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It’s bloat.  Most people don’t have the desire to learn a buttload of rules, just to find the 10 they’ll actually use.

 

id rather learn 50 rules and need to use 45 of them on the regular, than learn 100 and only use 10 on the regular.

 

 

i feel like what you described is the very definition of bloat. Your example means the game is so bloated that 99.9% of the rules in the game are completely useless and unnecessary.

With that said, it sounds like they're cutting the number of detachments to start with. 

 

There aren't less than 70 right now, right?

[Tastyfish]

32 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

With that said, it sounds like they're cutting the number of detachments to start with. 

 

There aren't less than 70 right now, right?

 

The old detachments still stand presumably if the ones in the campaign books are still current, I thought the 70 are the new 'half detachments' - where you might pick "bikes" and "terminators". Probably be about three to four for each faction, outside of perhaps Agents, Daemons (probably an option included with the Legions) and possibly Knights.

Edited 15 hours ago by Tastyfish

[Nephaston]

Personally, I don't consider detachments bloat in the regular sense as one ideally just picks the flavour they want their army to have and sticks with it. For instance, if my collection is skewed to rapidly moving units like jump infantry I'm gonna ignore the detachments skewing for stationary units and vice versa.

 

So sure 70 detachments sound like a lot, but I don't have to remember every single one of them, I'm just gonna pick the handful I want for the factions I play.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

21 hours ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

it's nice they painted them with the classic black trim scheme

 

looks like the "mixed armor mk" aspect is a bit less hybridized than i was hoping (i'd wanted to see different power packs, chestplates and the like), but is pretty in line with what i realistically expected, that being the incorporation of some of the variations present in the two space wolves troop kits (solid piece greaves, mk vii helms). Assuming this fellow is pretty representative of the other updated Intercessors, they are a noticeable improvement, but not a groundbreaking one. 

to add on to this, beyond the rest of the miniatures in his squad not having been shown, this being a launch set means everyhting in it will be monopose. Thus, there is a possibility that an updated multipart intercessor kit shall follow. I doubt it would have anything substantially different from the monopose kit, armor wise, but nonetheless there would be an additional source of variation.
I suppose there is a possibility there won't be a multipart follow-up, given that a multipart intercessor kit already exists. Yes there are the Stormcast parallels, and it has been 9 years since Intercessors released, which leave me inclined towards "there will be one" but who knows. It would pose some questions regarding hte rest of the initial primaris range; would Hellblasters get redone but with the option to make them flamer guys (who never received a multipart kit)?

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

I agree about the most recent Grey Hunter and Blood Claw kits. They really have the feel of those original kits, which were my favourite Wolf kits. After that Wolf stuff seemed to get over-detailed and over-sculpted. The ones that came out last year toned it down like the originals and IMO, are better for it.

 

That said, they were the tail end of 1st edition, not 3rd. Black Templars didn't get any bespoke models until 4th (apart from a limited edition Emperor's Champion for some anniversary celebration).
 

I was thinking the plastic kits for SW 3rd Ed codex relaese and the BT releases alongside Codex: Armageddon. But yeah the not yet Sons of Russ have oozed character since Leman himself was just a metal dude.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 minutes ago, Tastyfish said:

 

The old detachments still stand, the 70 are the new 'half detachments' - where you might pick "bikes" and "terminators". Probably be about three to four for each faction, outside of perhaps Agents, Daemons (probably an option included with the Legions) and possibly Knights.

There’s what? 25-28 factions with codexes?

That’s 70/25 is 2.8 detachments per faction.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

5 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

If we are going by just this image then my hopes aren't high for the re-done Intercessor kit. It's almost the exact same arm pose from the Space Marine Heroes/Kill Team Starter Set even down to belt pouch that's slightly open. I hope to see more than just one Aquila chest plate per box and I would love to see a full suite of hand options for both hands. The Primaris range has been insanely frustrating with its lack of alternate build options for hands. I'm asking for very little, they just need to replicate the hand options present in the Tactical Squad. If I can't get a 32mm Tactical Squad can I at least get some grenade throwing left hands? I spent my hobby time yesterday trying to build a left hand holding a grenade using a bit from the Riever kit. It's tiny things like this that drive me up the wall. 

I agree with the frustration surround a lack of hand option and chestplate insignia. if it means anything, that guy being a starter set miniature means he's monopose, and there's a chance there will be a multipart intercessors 2.0 kit to supplement these. Said kit *could* have a grenade hand option. 

[Mmmmm Napalm]

11 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Yes they do, making those helmets mk.x with older face plates as well. There are other differences mainly the ports on the back of the helm.

 

The helmets in the sternguard kit are actual bonafide wholesale older mark helmets, making them functionally indestinguishable from those in the older tactical sternguard devestator etc kits.

 

The mk. VII helm in the sternguard kit has "ears" that are slightly less wide than the Mk. VII in the 2013 Tac/Dev/etc kits. Another difference between the 2012-2015 helmets and the newer ones is the lenses; the old helmets lenses are flat, the newer ones have rounded lenses. Personally I am very happy with how the updated Mk. VII esque helms look, both the *actual* mk. VII in the Sternguard kit, and the Mk. X/VII hybrid helm seen here and on the recently shown intercessor. A very, very minor complaint I have concerning Grimaldus' 2021 update is that they didn't slim down the ears like the helm on the left. 

 

Speaking of Grimaldus, there is a very odd little detail regarding his hands; the right hand is akin to most Primaris hands, with larger ribbing on the palm, and the plate on the back of the hand being more rounded. The left hand holding the pistol, however, is like the older space marine hands, with thinner ribbing on the palm, and the gauntlet being flatter across the knuckles.

 

Left is Sternguard 2023, Middle is 2013 Tactical, right is Blood Claws. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Mmmmm Napalm

[Matcap86]

6 hours ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

The mk. VII helm in the sternguard kit has "ears" that are slightly less wide than the Mk. VII in the 2013 Tac/Dev/etc kits. Another difference between the 2012-2015 helmets and the newer ones is the lenses; the old helmets lenses are flat, the newer ones have rounded lenses. Personally I am very happy with how the updated Mk. VII esque helms look, both the *actual* mk. VII in the Sternguard kit, and the Mk. X/VII hybrid helm seen here and on the recently shown intercessor. A very, very minor complaint I have concerning Grimaldus' 2021 update is that they didn't slim down the ears like the helm on the left. 

 

Speaking of Grimaldus, there is a very odd little detail regarding his hands; the right hand is akin to most Primaris hands, with larger ribbing on the palm, and the plate on the back of the hand being more rounded. The left hand holding the pistol, however, is like the older space marine hands, with thinner ribbing on the palm, and the gauntlet being flatter across the knuckles.

 

Left is Sternguard 2023, Middle is 2013 Tactical, right is Blood Claws. 

 

Nothing really to add, I just wanna say this nitty gritty detail discussion is what I love and why I come to the B&C. 

[Mandragola]

I posted a few days ago about terrain being a problem, causing games to look bad. They’re apparently changing the rules for terrain to make it easier to hide. That could be great if they pull it off. 
 

I bought a bunch of MTO ruins a bit over a year ago so maybe I’ll make a battlefield if I get back into 40K. We’ll see. 
 

On the models, I’m pleased to see how little that intercessor has changed. He’ll fit in fine with the 8e ones - not that I need any more to be honest. I’m not sure the same is true of the ork but maybe that’s ok, given the unpopularity of the current kit. The new one looks great and should be fairly quick to paint up. 
 

So all good really, so far. I look forward to learning more. 

[Orange Knight]

New Ork Boy looks excellent. 

 

The Ork faction is going to have a spectacular range when the last few kits they need get updated.

 

Also, they're going to be a lot more powerful in general, especially the boyz now that they both ranged and melee options by default. This change is a nice bit of streamlining but it comes with a significant power boost when applied to potentially hundreds of models.

 

New terrain rules do interest me. I think the 10th edition tournament scene made terrain incredibly boring. At one point we were seeing no terrain on some tables, just an L shaped outline on the matt that instructed you there was a building there. We also saw clear perspex buildings - that was too much of a dilution of the spirit of the hobby for me. It was so standardised that you could play every movement phase before you ever put a single model on the table.

 

Wasn't it revealed recently that 90%+ of 40k hobbyists either don't play at all, or play less than 5 games a year and only do so in a casual setting. The competitive crowd makes up 4% of the community, yet the entire game is built around pleasing them.

 

For the record, there have been phases in my hobby life where I have fallen into that competitive crowd. I used to frequent multiple tournaments, I played international players and travelled for the hobby, but over time the game got less and less fun, and my real life buddies that I used to travel with dropped off from this type of play.

 

40k imo, can still be really fun but the game was dulled down to the point where frequent gaming wasn't exciting, and today the most fun I have is playing the occasional games with friends where we make the effort to put together great looking tables and armies.

 

So far I really do think that this new boxset might be the 1st I skip in decades. I've bought every new edition set since 3rd edition, but if the models are really exceptional I might still pick it up.

I'm more interested in the Orks but I'm always on the cusp of doing an Astra Military army so I don't know if I just want more and more grey plastic to build up in my backlog.

[Marshal Reinhard]

8 hours ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

The mk. VII helm in the sternguard kit has "ears" that are slightly less wide than the Mk. VII in the 2013 Tac/Dev/etc kits. Another difference between the 2012-2015 helmets and the newer ones is the lenses; the old helmets lenses are flat, the newer ones have rounded lenses. Personally I am very happy with how the updated Mk. VII esque helms look, both the *actual* mk. VII in the Sternguard kit, and the Mk. X/VII hybrid helm seen here and on the recently shown intercessor. A very, very minor complaint I have concerning Grimaldus' 2021 update is that they didn't slim down the ears like the helm on the left. 

 

Speaking of Grimaldus, there is a very odd little detail regarding his hands; the right hand is akin to most Primaris hands, with larger ribbing on the palm, and the plate on the back of the hand being more rounded. The left hand holding the pistol, however, is like the older space marine hands, with thinner ribbing on the palm, and the gauntlet being flatter across the knuckles.

 

Left is Sternguard 2023, Middle is 2013 Tactical, right is Blood Claws. 

Nice catch on the wider ears. Not sure thats meant as an in universe difference. Ie both left and center are intended as wholesale mk.vii helmetd

[Old-Four-Arms]

And a sprue pic for the new Boy (image from Grand Alliance Forums).

 

 

YMMV, but I hope there's at least one Boy with the OG quilted/padded armour look.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Old-Four-Arms