New generic unit variation ideas.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Let’s come up with some unique chapter units that are generic kits + upgrade sprue.

 

IF

Special HIs

Sgt get option for a PF

Special Ability

if this unit remained stationary ranged weapons in the unit get Sustained Hits2

 

Special Aggressors

boltstorm gauntlets

A4 BS3+ S4 AP0 D1 <twin linked>

Special Abilities

Reroll 1s to hit for boltstorm gauntlets

 

anyone have any other ideas?

[HeadlessCross]

Heavy Intercessor Sergeants should have an option for melee weapons to begin with. Why is that something that should be specific to Imperial Fists?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Heavy Intercessor Sergeants should have an option for melee weapons to begin with. Why is that something that should be specific to Imperial Fists?

Why should they have a melee option normally?

 

 

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Why should they have a melee option normally?

 

 

Because that's fairly emblematic of Space Marines - especially infantry and especially battleline.  Sergeants with Hidden Power Fists is very on brand.  They've gone away from it somewhat recently, but the impulse remains.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Because that's fairly emblematic of Space Marines - especially infantry and especially battleline.  Sergeants with Hidden Power Fists is very on brand.  They've gone away from it somewhat recently, but the impulse remains.

Yes, they’ve changed how units are built.

dedicated shooty units don’t get special melee weapons.

 

and that’s a big part of what would make my proposed unique unit, unique.

[Tacitus]

47 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yes, they’ve changed how units are built.

dedicated shooty units don’t get special melee weapons.

 

and that’s a big part of what would make my proposed unique unit, unique.

You mean shooty units like Not-Heavy Intercessors? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Tacitus said:

You mean shooty units like Not-Heavy Intercessors? 

No, that’s a generalist unit.

 

i mean shooty units like hellblasters, eradicators, and eliminators.

[HeadlessCross]

16 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Why should they have a melee option normally?

 

 

Should regular Intercessors?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I think these would have to be a lot more ambitious to do well. They're already 60-dollar kits, adding an upgrade sprue would push that up and these aren't going to be super eye-catching changes. On top of that I think if you gave the abilities to the base units, it would be fine (granted I think HI are underrated). If I were an IF player and these where my version of victrix, headtakers, etc. I wouldn't be happy about it.  

[Orange Knight]

I'd like to see a Gravis "Grav" unit.

 

3 - 6

 

Each model is armed with a Shoulder mounted grav gun, power sword and bolt pistol.
1 in 3 can replace the power sword and bolt pistol for a Grav Cannon.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

52 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'd like to see a Gravis "Grav" unit.

 

3 - 6

 

Each model is armed with a Shoulder mounted grav gun, power sword and bolt pistol.
1 in 3 can replace the power sword and bolt pistol for a Grav Cannon.

What geneline has grav weapons in upgrade sprues?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

5 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I'd like to see a Gravis "Grav" unit.

 

3 - 6

 

Each model is armed with a Shoulder mounted grav gun, power sword and bolt pistol.
1 in 3 can replace the power sword and bolt pistol for a Grav Cannon.

 

Yeah, and maybe an option for a squad of six to have a standard bearer with power fist (limited to 1 per army).

 

4 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

What geneline has grav weapons in upgrade sprues?

 

I don't think any do, which is point in its favor. Plus, Tor Garadon has an artficer grav gun so it would make sense for more imperials fists to have that loadout. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Jorin Helm-splitter said:

 

Yeah, and maybe an option for a squad of six to have a standard bearer with power fist (limited to 1 per army).

 

 

I don't think any do, which is point in its favor. Plus, Tor Garadon has an artficer grav gun so it would make sense for more imperials fists to have that loadout. 

…this isn’t a random unit wishlist topic.

[Tacitus]

19 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

No, that’s a generalist unit.

 

i mean shooty units like hellblasters, eradicators, and eliminators.

So Shooty Intercessors who only have a melee weapon on the Sergeant are generalist units.  Because the Sergeant has a melee weapon.  But Heavy Intercessors are not a generalist unit because their sergeant doesn't have a melee weapon and thus the Sergeant shouldn't have a melee weapon?  And you realized you didn't include HINTS in your list of Shooty Squads?

 

Have you got an argument that isn't circular logic and/or some version of because I said so?  I mean there are four BATTLELINE Infantry squads.  Only HINTS don't get a melee sergeant weapon which is usually used for the anti-vehicle there.

[Orange Knight]

I misread the post.

 

On the subject of upgrades for generic kits, I think GW have let Terminators down.

 

The kit is designed with upgrades in mind. The shins, shoulders and torso fronts can all be switched out easily, as can the wargear.

 

So far we have one unique, albeit conservative, variant - Deathwing Terminators.

 

Black Templars, Ultramarines, Blood Angels etc should all have a unique Terminator variant with some unique rules and wargear.

 

Examples:

 

Black Templar Terminators:

-1 in 5 may take a Multi Melta

-The Sgt can take a Master Crafted Power Sword

Special Rule:

Fury of Dorn - In your opponent’s Shooting phase, each time an enemy unit has shot, if any models in this unit were destroyed as a result of those attacks, this unit can make a Fury of Dorn move. To do so, roll one D6 and add 2 to the result: models in this unit move a number of inches up to this result, but this unit must end that move as close as possible to the closest enemy unit.

 

Ultramarine Terminators:

-Each Terminator may swap their Storm Bolter for a Master Crafted Bolter

-The Sgt may take a Relic Weapon

Special Rule:

Ultramarian Vigilance - Ranged weapons in this unit have the Ignore Cover Special rule.

 

Stuff like this, but applied to all the chapters.

 

Edited January 26 by Orange Knight

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Tacitus said:

So Shooty Intercessors who only have a melee weapon on the Sergeant are generalist units.  Because the Sergeant has a melee weapon.  But Heavy Intercessors are not a generalist unit because their sergeant doesn't have a melee weapon and thus the Sergeant shouldn't have a melee weapon?  And you realized you didn't include HINTS in your list of Shooty Squads?

 

Have you got an argument that isn't circular logic and/or some version of because I said so?  I mean there are four BATTLELINE Infantry squads.  Only HINTS don't get a melee sergeant weapon which is usually used for the anti-vehicle there.

Bruh we’re talking about HIs they’re included by that very fact.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Black Templars, Ultramarines, Blood Angels etc should all have a unique Terminator variant with some unique rules and wargear.

To what extent though? Isn't unreasonable that none of the 1000 Chapters outside Black Templars never acquired Multi-Meltas for their Terminators?

 

It's why I don't agree with Deathwing Terminators being an entry, especially as their original incarnation. Outside mixing weapons (which should've been the default to begin with to cut down on unit entries), they just had a Plasma Cannon. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

55 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

To what extent though? Isn't unreasonable that none of the 1000 Chapters outside Black Templars never acquired Multi-Meltas for their Terminators?

 

It's why I don't agree with Deathwing Terminators being an entry, especially as their original incarnation. Outside mixing weapons (which should've been the default to begin with to cut down on unit entries), they just had a Plasma Cannon. 

That’s like asking “so none of the chapters outside of the 9th legion’s lineage never put a librarian in a dreadnought?”

 

 

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I misread the post.

 

On the subject of upgrades for generic kits, I think GW have let Terminators down.

 

The kit is designed with upgrades in mind. The shins, shoulders and torso fronts can all be switched out easily, as can the wargear.

 

So far we have one unique, albeit conservative, variant - Deathwing Terminators.

 

Black Templars, Ultramarines, Blood Angels etc should all have a unique Terminator variant with some unique rules and wargear.

 

Examples:

 

Black Templar Terminators:

-1 in 5 may take a Multi Melta

-The Sgt can take a Master Crafted Power Sword

Special Rule:

Fury of Dorn - In your opponent’s Shooting phase, each time an enemy unit has shot, if any models in this unit were destroyed as a result of those attacks, this unit can make a Fury of Dorn move. To do so, roll one D6 and add 2 to the result: models in this unit move a number of inches up to this result, but this unit must end that move as close as possible to the closest enemy unit.

 

Ultramarine Terminators:

-Each Terminator may swap their Storm Bolter for a Master Crafted Bolter

-The Sgt may take a Relic Weapon

Special Rule:

Ultramarian Vigilance - Ranged weapons in this unit have the Ignore Cover Special rule.

 

Stuff like this, but applied to all the chapters.

 

Its not a bad idea, I'd look at their 30K unit (most Legions have a special Terminator unit - many of them are also in the rules there) and try and parallel that and/or do something more flavorful for the chapter.  Give UM or IF MC Storm Bolters.  Give BA Terminators move 6" for example.  SW Terminators can Heroic Intervention for Free, White Scars get +1A on the charge, and so on.  Adding a melee upgrade sprue with Frost weapons for SW, Power Glaives for WS, etc is also potentially a thing. 

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Bruh we’re talking about HIs they’re included by that very fact.

And we're talking about the idea that they shouldn't be included.  You're using the fact that they weren't included as the reason they shouldn't be to argue with people who say they should be.  Its called circular logic.

Quote

A circular logic fallacy, also known as circular reasoning, occurs when the conclusion of an argument is used as a premise to support itself.

 

[jaxom]

Raven Guard Infiltrators

+

= Stalkers. 1 sniper bolt rifle per 5. Maybe something that synergizes with Reivers.

Salamander Bladeguard

+
= Promethean Wardens. 2 Thunder hammers per 3, 1 promethean brazier (both on top of 1 powerpack) per 3. Brazier gives enemies -1 T in engagement and +1OC if squad has 2 of them.

White Scars Outriders+

= Hunter Squad. 2 Chain-tulwars per 3. Precision in melee, +1A per character killed.

 

Iron Hands Assault Intercessors

+

= Purge Squad. 1 auto-bolt carbine per 5. ABC has 18” range, 3A, no heavy, has pistol. Unit special rule: +1AP in melee against a unit they shot on turn within 10” and they inflicted a wound.

 

Imperial Fist Bladeguard

+

+

= Siege-guard. 2 pwerfists per 3, 1 signum per 3. Signum gives a unit within 12” ignore cover. Unit special rule: reroll wounds vs vehicles and monsters.

 

 

[Tacitus]

I like different units for different chapters - and I bounce back and forth between special outriders for WS.  I think they should get some special outriders AND a Terminator/Bladeguard unit.  I think the Fists should be Terminators not Bladeguard to pair with Lysander.   A Gorgon Terminator Squad with special power axes and a bespoke too like -1 to wound.  

[jaxom]

I like those ideas. I was working in the scope of the prompt so Imperial Fist Terminators with Powerfists seemed a little meh 

[HeadlessCross]

18 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

That’s like asking “so none of the chapters outside of the 9th legion’s lineage never put a librarian in a dreadnought?”

 

 

......which has been explicitly a problem and a Librarian Dread has been asked for as a generic option for years. 

[Evil Eye]

Speaking for myself, here's 1-2 units per Chapter I can think would be cool (based mostly on theme because I don't play 10th):
 

Blood Angels:
 

"Purgatorio Squad"- a successor to the Angel's Tears, jump troops armed with incendiary grenade launchers. Sergeant can take a hand flamer and a choice of melee weapons for his other hand, and the grenade launchers come with hefty bayonets attached for added melee punchiness.

"Virtuoso Dreadnought"- a variant of the Brutalis which nixes the hull guns and turret, and swaps the regular forearm weapons for either heavy flamers, assault cannons or meltaguns (replace as appropriate with "modern" versions) and is equipped with a rocket pack. Whilst this allows it to make short but devastating assault charges (though it does not give it full flight capability as it is too damn big and also that would be broken) it primarily serves as a means for the big red vending machine of death to deep strike without the aid of a drop pod (in-universe it's dropped from a low-altitude carrier aircraft and uses the rocket motors to slow its descent to a safe velocity).

 

Raven Guard:
 

"Serpicus-Pattern Impulsor"- modified Impulsor that sacrifices some weaponry in exchange for quieter engines and a cloaking device, allowing it to work as a covert insertion vehicle for sneaky operations.

 

Space Wolves:

 

"Cold Fangs"- a Devastator-style squad armed with Helfrost weapons. Pretty self explanatory!

"Trollslayer Veterans"- Wolf Guard style unit (albeit power armoured rather than Terminator armoured) built around slaying heavy infantry and monsters at close range, armed with power spears with a built-in flamer at the head.

 

Imperial Fists:

 

"Breacher Veterans"- Pretty much Bladeguard but swapping the swords for bolt carbines or whatever.

"Terminator Defender Squad"- a Terminator squad focused on defence rather than offence. Power fist is swapped for a much larger than usual storm shield, storm bolters are swapped for a slightly longer-range bolter variant. Cyclone missile launcher can still be taken, or instead swapped for a similarly mounted grenade launcher...thing.

 

Salamanders:
 

"Hearthguard Veterans"- Similar to Bladeguard but with power mauls replacing the regular power swords and the storm shields replaced with smaller buckler-style combat shields with built-in hand flamers.

Not exactly a unique unit per se but I'd give access to Multi-Meltas for Salamanders Terminators.

 

Ultramarines:

"Comms Officer"- remember the Master of Communications from Horus Heresy (and also RT)? Say hello to him again! A cheaper support character who can be attached to a squad to give some kind of leadership/command buff of some form, and whose presence on the battlefield provides an army-wide bonus to...something? I'm honestly not sure about this one, feels like it could be a chapter-generic unit and the Ultramarines have quite a lot of stuff as is...

 

White Scars:

 

"Outrider Veterans"- Veterans on bikes. 'nuff said.

Also give Techmarines (and any other characters for that matter) the option to ride a bike. It's kinda their thing!

Dark Angels: 

"Redemptor-Mortis Dreadnought"- the return of the old Mortis Dreadnoughts, now XBOX HUEG! Comes with a choice of guns to double up on; missile launchers, twin-linked autocannons, quad heavy bolters or plasma incinerators.

 

Iron Hands:

No idea what you'd call it but a unit consisting of a (non-named) Terminator armoured Techmarine with a squad of Servitors would be pretty nice.

 

 

I will also add the caveat that whilst obviously you shouldn't be able to "mix" chapter-specific units (no putting Hearthguard in a Serpicus Impulsor), these units should be available to successor chapters as well, so /yourdudes/ can still take Breacher Veterans without having to be painted yellow. They can't then take a Virtuoso Dreadnought as well, of course- chimeric gene-seed is a thing, but chances are "mutt" Chapters aren't going to be following their parents' doctrines all that closely given they may not know who they even are.