How to fix the fire strike turret?

[Karhedron]

49 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

It's a unit that has to be taken in multiples, otherwise it doesn't work. It's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality. It costs the same as two Terminators (the worst infantry unit in the codex) and you're getting decent durability and firepower for that cost. 2 Servo Turrets have more reliable firepower than a Ballistus Dread which is one of the most competitive ranged unit in the codex. Of course there are other trade offs such as lack of mobility and less toughness. 

 

I disagree that 2 Turrets have better Firepower than a Ballistus. 2 Lastalon Turrets have a slight edge to AT thanks to being Twin-linked but lack the flexibility to switch to Frag for anti-infantry work. The Ballistus can also bring its own rerolls to Hit without relying on OOM.

 

I would say that 2 Firestrikes only outshoot a Ballistus under optimal circumstances and are usually equal or worse. They are also slower and less durable. 

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

I disagree that 2 Turrets have better Firepower than a Ballistus. 2 Lastalon Turrets have a slight edge to AT thanks to being Twin-linked but lack the flexibility to switch to Frag for anti-infantry work. The Ballistus can also bring its own rerolls to Hit without relying on OOM.

 

I would say that 2 Firestrikes only outshoot a Ballistus under optimal circumstances and are usually equal or worse. They are also slower and less durable. 

 

Are they always less durable? A powerful gun can only ever destroy one of them. There is an advantage in having multiple models.

 

The turrets are also pretty durable against anti infantry power.

They can also benefit more from the Ironstorm Spearhead as every turret will get a re-roll, split between less attacks from each model, leading to more efficiency.

 

Lastly, keep in mind that I'm intentionally comparing them to a unit that is universally praised for being one of the best in the codex. And yes, we all agree that the Ballistus is the better model to take in an army. I've come across these turrets a few times in my local scene and they perform better than you would expect, and are often ignored for a turn on two in favour of other targets. I don't think they would ever be a tournament staple because the current format is focused around predetermined, small tables that favour units that can move quickly from cover to cover, objective to objective. 

 

I guess you could compare 3 Turrets to 3 Devastator Centurions? 

Edited Saturday at 12:01 PM by Orange Knight

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Are they always less durable? A powerful gun can only ever destroy one of them. There is an advantage in having multiple models.

 

That is true. A Gladiator Lancer can fairly reliably one-shot a Ballistus but can only kill one of a pair of Turrets.

 

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

The turrets are also pretty durable against anti infantry power.

 

True but the Balllistus even moreso. Small-arms wound Turrets on a 5+ but need a 6 to wound the Dread so the Ballistus is twice as durable to anti-infantry weapons.

 

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

I guess you could compare 3 Turrets to 3 Devastator Centurions? 

 

Tricky one. Each turret gets 2 S10 TL shots whereas each DevCent gets 1 S12 TL shot so advantage to the Turrets. But the Cents get a backup weapon of missiles or hurricane bolters and also have semi-decent melee profile. The turrets have 50% more wounds although the Cents are T7 but still advantage to the Turret I think. The DevCents are slightly faster but that is fairly marginal. The Turrets are definitely better but also cost 15 points more per model. It is also worth considering that DevCents mostly see play in Ultramarines paired with Uriel Ventris to give them Deep Strike.

[Orange Knight]

Don't forget the turrets are BS 2+. They are a unit that doesn't have to target the Oath target to remain at near peak effectiveness.

 

But yeah, lots of things to consider, it's why I enjoy deep diving into units like this. 

 

Personally I only own a single Turret, but have considered buying more of them. Annoyingly they are actually quite hard to store because of their dimensions and height lol

 

 

Edited Saturday at 01:48 PM by Orange Knight

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

People are saying the firepower of this unit is low, and I disagree with this assessment to an extent.

 

It's a unit that has to be taken in multiples, otherwise it doesn't work. It's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality. It costs the same as two Terminators (the worst infantry unit in the codex) and you're getting decent durability and firepower for that cost. 2 Servo Turrets have more reliable firepower than a Ballistus Dread which is one of the most competitive ranged unit in the codex. Of course there are other trade offs such as lack of mobility and less toughness. 

 

One is none. Two is some. 3 is and then some.

 

The thing I agree most with is that their Special rule is too situational and unhelpful. This is probably something that will change in the next codex, fingers crossed.

You can't take three anymore.  Unit Comp is 1-2.  And yes the firepower of this unit is low but even moreso poorly differentiated. 

[Tacitus]

8 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Are they always less durable? A powerful gun can only ever destroy one of them. There is an advantage in having multiple models.

 

The turrets are also pretty durable against anti infantry power.

They can also benefit more from the Ironstorm Spearhead as every turret will get a re-roll, split between less attacks from each model, leading to more efficiency.

 

Lastly, keep in mind that I'm intentionally comparing them to a unit that is universally praised for being one of the best in the codex. And yes, we all agree that the Ballistus is the better model to take in an army. I've come across these turrets a few times in my local scene and they perform better than you would expect, and are often ignored for a turn on two in favour of other targets. I don't think they would ever be a tournament staple because the current format is focused around predetermined, small tables that favour units that can move quickly from cover to cover, objective to objective. 

 

I guess you could compare 3 Turrets to 3 Devastator Centurions? 

They've only got 6 wounds.  A Godhammer sponson can kill them both.  The main gun on a Gladiator Lancer can do them both and doesn't even have to roll better than average like the one Godhammer sponson does.

 

Three Cent Devs would be about 50 points cheaper than three Firestrikes if you could take it, and have more shooting.  My Cent Dev has 1 TL Lascannon shot and 3 Centurion Missile Launcher shots (The same 3 shots as the Turret's autocannon just with more AP)  In other words each Cent Dev is way better than each Firestrike. 

[Orange Knight]

How can a lancer kill both when they are a seperate unit?

 

If the turrets are in cover there's a good chance the Landraider kills neither one.

 

Nothing is as simple or as guaranteed as you're portraying. 

Edited Sunday at 04:23 PM by Orange Knight

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

How can a lancer kill both when they are a seperate unit?

 

They're not a Separate unit?  You can squadron two, but they're still a squadron which is one unit with multiple models, just like the Centurions you were mentioning next? 

 

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There is an advantage in having multiple models.

As for this point about being as simple as portrayted -

 

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If the turrets are in cover there's a good chance the Landraider kills neither one.

 

Nothing is as simple or as guaranteed as you're portraying. 

you selected the portrayal, I just pointed out you were wrong about your own portrayal.

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A powerful gun can only ever destroy one of them.

I listed two guns off the top of my head that CAN kill two of them. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I got a pair in my IH CP and have used them three times in my Ironstorm lists.  They're doing great.  The 4+ overwatch with an Ironstorm re-roll is just great for consistently plinking something in the enemy movement phase.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I got a pair in my IH CP and have used them three times in my Ironstorm lists.  They're doing great.  The 4+ overwatch with an Ironstorm re-roll is just great for consistently plinking something in the enemy movement phase.

It should be Repeat Overwatch For Free, and Hit on 4's.