New Warhammer 40,000 Edition announced!

[Karhedron]

Interesting thought, will "Ignore Cover" also negate the new Hidden rule? If it does, that will suddenly become a very powerful and desirable rule. It is already getting a boost by negating the penalty to Hit.

[Dr. Clock]

55 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

will "Ignore Cover" also negate the new Hidden rule?

Doubt it. Presumably 'Hidden' means 'not visible and therefore not eligible as a target'. If any keyword will negate hidden it'll be Indirect Fire if I had to guess. 

 

Edit to add:

 

I think Plunging Fire will be the turnkey rule to tee up shooting lists, and the availability of it is going to determine how melee stacks against shooting table to table. GW terrain has alot of 5" verticals unless I'm wrong, whereas my terrain is all 3", with 6" for the second floors. 

 

As I start thinking about shooting armies like Guard, AdMech and Eldar, and getting worried about losing 25-33% of my hits, I remember that if I can just get off the floor I'll keep my full BS into cover and my full AP rating, representing a decent increase in effectiveness vs what I can do in 10th. 

 

All that's to say I'm thrilled to have a reason for stuff with Fly to jump up on a building to snipe instead of... never doing that.

 

Oh dang... Also thinking true Aircraft can/should end up with 'Plunging Fire on anything within 12"' as well as Titanic... might give them a bit more utility than they have had in some editions (not holding my breath). Surely if your base is more than 3" high you'd always count as 'above' stuff on the ground ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Dr. Clock

[Paturabo]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

Doubt it. Presumably 'Hidden' means 'not visible and therefore not eligible as a target'. If any keyword will negate hidden it'll be Indirect Fire if I had to guess. 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

I was thinking about indirect fire. Maybe for guard, an infantry unit with a Vox within 15" can call out an enemy that is Hidden to friendly artillery, allowing the artillery to target the Hidden enemy as though the Vox called for close fire support. 

 

Or maybe the column of Leman Russ battle tanks will have to just get close to Charge range (within the 15") and dispatch cowardly Hidden enemy unit via bolter, stubber, battle cannon, and if it comes to it: the tank commander's sword as he leans out the top hatch. 

 

Now if you excuse me, the Commissar has ordered we affix bayonets and clear out the Ruins that hum with the sound of chainaxes. 

Edited April 11 by Paturabo
grammar

[Dr. Clock]

32 minutes ago, Paturabo said:

Maybe for guard, an infantry unit with a Vox within 15" can call out an enemy that is Hidden to friendly artillery, allowing the artillery to target the Hidden enemy as though the Vox called for close fire support. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see this kind of 'spotting' mechanics end up in a detachment, but it does seem like Indirect is easier to make 'good but not unbalanced' if it can shoot at anything visible to one or more units in the army, while still always giving cover if out of sight, and keeping the 4+ shooting cap. Then with a +1BS Order your Basilisk is shooting non-visible units at 4+ but keeping its full AP, which seems like a decent solution without likely leading to pure leafblower situations since you'll still need to close with something to spot the Hidden stuff. The other scenario is that Indirect remains middling or poor in effectiveness, but still comes at a premium price : (

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

[Mogger351]

I assume weirdboy tomorrow from the teaser and fight rules in the back end of the week.

[Nephaston]

Yeah, seems to be three-ish articles a week, model reveal on monday, rules on wednesday and friday.

[Orange Knight]

I'm feeling very underwhelmed by the reveals thus far, and kinda wish they hadn't shown anything and instead dropped more at once.

Whilst I appreciate being showing info on the missions - a vital part of 40k - this is also something that gets changed throughout an edition, and this could all have been a chapter approved style supplement.

Also, all this mission talk further re-enforces the idea that 40k is doubling down as being a competitive game, which is again fine, but I have my doubts about what fun we can expect in a casual setting.

I guess I can't really expect much in terms of actual unit or army rules because the current codex books will remain playable. Does that ultimately mean that 11th edition will come down to new mission types and a reset on detachments, and little more than that?

[ZeroWolf]

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm feeling very underwhelmed by the reveals thus far, and kinda wish they hadn't shown anything and instead dropped more at once.

Whilst I appreciate being showing info on the missions - a vital part of 40k - this is also something that gets changed throughout an edition, and this could all have been a chapter approved style supplement.

Also, all this mission talk further re-enforces the idea that 40k is doubling down as being a competitive game, which is again fine, but I have my doubts about what fun we can expect in a casual setting.

I guess I can't really expect much in terms of actual unit or army rules because the current codex books will remain playable. Does that ultimately mean that 11th edition will come down to new mission types and a reset on detachments, and little more than that?

Pretty much, but this is inline with the edition being a slight adjustment on the one before, which we have seen with 8th and 9th. If the pattern holds 12th will be an index editon

[Orange Knight]

15 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Pretty much, but this is inline with the edition being a slight adjustment on the one before, which we have seen with 8th and 9th. If the pattern holds 12th will be an index editon

 

I think 9th to 10th felt a bit more substantial.

I guess I won't be excited until the new codex books start dropping. Let's hope that's where all the sauce is.

[Captain Idaho]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm feeling very underwhelmed by the reveals thus far, and kinda wish they hadn't shown anything and instead dropped more at once

 

They did say that all the previous army publications and Codex books will still be usable in this edition, so it is going to be fundamentally the same as 10th to be honest. 

 

 

[Mogger351]

13 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

They did say that all the previous army publications and Codex books will still be usable in this edition, so it is going to be fundamentally the same as 10th to be honest. 

 

 

Yeah, this week being basically I imagine fights first and maybe engagement range, does feel abit dry though tbh. Given that I'd argue we've had the big ticket item in terrain and objectives.

[Captain Idaho]

Now you mention it, that's likely what can be changed without changing the army books which is why GW are going harder there.

 

To me that's why I think the methodology of 40K is flawed to be honest. It relies on too many special rules that are exceptions to have fundamental changes possible. If the baseline of a faction were inherent to the stats with very limited special rules, a more substantial change in the core rules is possible without completely overhauling every faction ruleset as well.

[ThePenitentOne]

I hope they say something about the fate of Crusade soon- It's a pretty big deal for me. I know that with dexes carrying over, I should theoretically be able to houserule Crusade back in if they decide to cut it. What I worry about is that they simplify it to the point where it's not deep enough to be fun, but the existance of whatever they come up with to replace it makes Houseruling the old system back in less viable.

[Mogger351]

26 minutes ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I hope they say something about the fate of Crusade soon- It's a pretty big deal for me. I know that with dexes carrying over, I should theoretically be able to houserule Crusade back in if they decide to cut it. What I worry about is that they simplify it to the point where it's not deep enough to be fun, but the existance of whatever they come up with to replace it makes Houseruling the old system back in less viable.

The fact they've not mentioned it at all, whilst calling out the edition end campaign books as compatible, then gone on to explain about breaking down the difference between narrative and matched play, all says to me it isn't a thing now.

[Wispy]

Orks get cool new mini designs shown off and Space Marines get kitbashes.

[jaxom]

To me it seems like none of the mechanics changing are linked to Crusade. I’m concerned Crusade releases might stop, but not that 11th won’t work with what already exists.

[Orange Knight]

5 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

They did say that all the previous army publications and Codex books will still be usable in this edition, so it is going to be fundamentally the same as 10th to be honest. 

 

 

 

Sure, but then I'm supposed to get hyped for a new mission pack and re-jigged detachments?

 

...We were already getting new missions and detachments regularly. 

[Rhavien]

Guess it will be slight changes of the existing rules like charging and morale so that I'll be confused for the next three year which iteration was the new and the old one...

[Orange Knight]

To add to what I was saying before. I don't doubt that there will be more excitement to come, and that new codex books will rejuvenate the various factions.

 

I just think what they've revealed thus far, the trickle of models, and the focus on missions has made everything a bit flat.

[DemonGSides]

I'm happy for the less bombastic marketing and happier to just get solid information and see some cool models (So far, mostly only Ork that are 'cool').

 

The game is in a good place currently with regards to balance between armies (There needs to be some motions towards in-faction balancing, but I think the new detatchment system is a play towards that so we will see how that shakes out), and I don't really want a big change to how the game itself plays, so so far I've been pretty happy with their coverage.

[Captain Idaho]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Sure, but then I'm supposed to get hyped for a new mission pack and re-jigged detachments?

 

...We were already getting new missions and detachments regularly. 

 

Totally agree man. 11th edition is not for me as I didn't like the direction of 40K since 9th and 10th I just can't stand.

 

Maybe it's more the Codex books over the main rules, but still.

 

Anyway, yeah to get excited for a game I don't like... we got new missions because they haven't changed the game. 

[Antarius]

9 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

To add to what I was saying before. I don't doubt that there will be more excitement to come, and that new codex books will rejuvenate the various factions.

 

I just think what they've revealed thus far, the trickle of models, and the focus on missions has made everything a bit flat.

I honestly think they're in a bit of a bind, because the models are really just rehashes of already existing things, so it's hard to make it super exciting.

Now, personally, I think I'd probably rather see good rehashes than new ideas, because I'm not really convinced that any new ideas will be good (see the Desolation squad for a prime example). There's only so much you can do with space marines, after all.

[Mogger351]

8 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Totally agree man. 11th edition is not for me as I didn't like the direction of 40K since 9th and 10th I just can't stand.

 

Maybe it's more the Codex books over the main rules, but still.

 

Anyway, yeah to get excited for a game I don't like... we got new missions because they haven't changed the game. 

 

I've quite enjoyed 10th, it's just this trickle is painfully underwhelming.

 

As noted above it's feeling like a normal balance dataslate and a new mission pack drop with the added perk of buying a new rulebook.

 

I am stuck trying to think what "changes to the fight phase" they cma make without rewriting the game completely and it's likely a short list of stuff I'll go "ok, cool" and be unbothered by.

[Orange Knight]

12 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

The game is in a good place currently with regards to balance between armies (There needs to be some motions towards in-faction balancing, but I think the new detatchment system is a play towards that so we will see how that shakes out), and I don't really want a big change to how the game itself plays, so so far I've been pretty happy with their coverage.

 

If balance is your only priority then sure - the game is more balanced, but it's also more predictable, less exciting, and as a result it's less fun.

I've been playing since 3rd edition, collecting since 2nd. I have no aversion whatsoever to big shake-ups and resets.

If GW don't have much to show, then this trickle isn't going to win them any points. They should just have done a big, blowout reveal of the models, and then another of the rules when they were closer to launch.

[Galron]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

the game is more balanced, but it's also more predictable, less exciting, and as a result it's less fun.

I've been playing since 3rd edition, collecting since 2nd. I have no aversion whatsoever to big shake-ups and resets.

 

I am with you. I was hoping they would go the way pretty much all other mainstream games(including GWs) have gone and just flat out gotten rid of rerolls almost altogether except in very rare situations. Now days a lot of stuff just is a foregone conclusion "I hit you on a 2+, reroll 1s, wound you on a 2+ reroll wounds" (yawn). Makes games faster and makes dice rolls more meaningful and suspenseful. Maybe in 12th they will finally get rid of the reroll disease that has plagued us for so long. That and go the way of Old World and have special characters but in general not make them auto or manditory includes. I hate special characters and hate even more that some army builds require them when a generic character should be able to do the same thing without feeling like you are playing with a handicap. No, Marnius Calgar and G-man or Eldrad are not showing up for every little skirmish and they shouldnt be in every game. 

Edited April 14 by Galron