OG Space Marines and 11th Edition

[Relic]

With 11th Edition soon upon us, I think it likely that the remaining 1st born marines will move to legends, forever to live on in John Blanche's 3rd Edition Rulebook cover. 

 

I understand the rationale of the move by GW to refresh the line and I think most people would reasonably allow any remaining OG marines to be played as their modern equivalent, once base sizes match and it is clear for everyone involved. 

 

That all said, the thought struck me that if GW did a Codex Imperial Agents, why not do a Codex Supplement for Firstborn Marines (pick a more inventive name..)? I personally would not go very expansive with it, the current units, generic characters and perhaps what was put into legends (e.g. assault marines/bikes and land speeders). The business case would be that nostalgia is in vogue and it likely would have a bigger player base then some of the existing books like Agents and Daemons. 

 

I think the concerns from a business perspective would be:

 

(1) Would GW have to stock old modals? 

(2) Could it create confusion for new players?

 

Regarding point (1), i'd suggest GW could use the Horus Heresy kits as a dual use and discontinue the existing 1st born molds. 

 

On point (2), I think this is a limited risk, the Primaris Marines are the poster boys and the one's marketed. 

 

I would further think it could be interesting, if GW did such a Codex supplement to include Renegade chapters and fold in some limited CSM equipment options.

 

Perhaps thought, you might disagree and think it best just to accept the refreshed line and that the days of a slightly squat marines running about with an oversized heavy weapon is a thing of the past? 

Edited April 6 by Relic

[Indy Techwisp]

The issue with a Codex: Firstborn Marines is that most of those Firstborn Marine models are already gone.

With new Vanguard Vets being shown off now, we're down to just Tacticals and Devastators left, and both of those could easily be snapped away in an instant.

 

There simply wouldn't be a market for a Codex: Firstborn Marines faction if it didn't specifically use the old Firstborn minis, most of which have ceased production for one reason or another.

 

Having the Heresy kits be dual use for this faction also doesn't really work because "iconic" Firstborn Marines wear MK VII Armour which HH doesn't use.

[DemonGSides]

I can foresee there being eventual The Old World for 40k era but pre Primaris. Once HH succumbs to its own weight, that'll be the pivot to give those kits some sort of ongoing life. 

Edited April 6 by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

Being honest a kit that's modern CSM scale of Loyalist MkVII which replaces both the old Tactical and Devastator kits is what I expect GW to do with those units, possibly also merging them into one datasheet (10 man squad, half built as 5 man Tactical, half as 5 man Devastator and split on deployment).

[Tacitus]

On 4/6/2026 at 7:52 AM, Indy Techwisp said:

Being honest a kit that's modern CSM scale of Loyalist MkVII which replaces both the old Tactical and Devastator kits is what I expect GW to do with those units, possibly also merging them into one datasheet (10 man squad, half built as 5 man Tactical, half as 5 man Devastator and split on deployment).

Tacticals are likely to squat outright.  Devs are likely to Up-Size to Primaris.  They may or may not gain/lose weapon options.  I believe they were originally trying to "part out" all the Dev Heavy Weapon roles - Hellblasters got Plasma, HINTS got Heavy Bolters, Eradicators got MELTA. Desolators got Frag and Krak.  I think they ran out of time, and its likely we'll see upscaled Devs with some portion of their heavy weapon choices.  Lascannon, Missile Launchers, and Grav almost definitely.  Probably Heavy Bolters though they'll not be very "popular" as a choice but they'll keep the choice at least for a while so older models are still valid.  Plasma might go away, or stick around, or become Dark Angel only.   But realistically I suspect Devs only get upsized for people taking Las and Grav - plus maybe cheapie Misssile units. 

[Karhedron]

Personally I do not expect to see a Primaris Devastator squad. Hellblasters, Eradicators and Desolators cover most of the niches Dev squads could occupy and it is rumoured that 11th edition will see a Gravis Heavy Bolter squad for horde control duties. The only missing roles are Grav and Lascannon. Grav is not all that good in 10th edition and we have Eradicators for short-ranged anti-tank. I will miss Lascannon Devs but Marines have plenty of anti-tank units (both infantry and Tank Destroyers) so it is not like they will be sorely missed.

[Tacitus]

12 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Personally I do not expect to see a Primaris Devastator squad. Hellblasters, Eradicators and Desolators cover most of the niches Dev squads could occupy and it is rumoured that 11th edition will see a Gravis Heavy Bolter squad for horde control duties. The only missing roles are Grav and Lascannon. Grav is not all that good in 10th edition and we have Eradicators for short-ranged anti-tank. I will miss Lascannon Devs but Marines have plenty of anti-tank units (both infantry and Tank Destroyers) so it is not like they will be sorely missed.

Not really, no they don't.  We already have a Gravis Heavy Bolter units.  Its HINTS.  The Heavy Bolt Rifle with 1 per 5 Heavy Bolters upgrades. Just because Grav is "not that good" this edition doesn't mean they're going to squat it, or it won't be good in future editions.  And we absolutely have nothing INFANTRY with lascannon level shooting except Devs right now.   Maybe they finally fix the Las Fusil and such with shorter range but same strength, I dunno.  I still suspect Devs cross the Rubicon.  They haven't been replaced. 

[SvenIronhand]

19 hours ago, Tacitus said:

We already have a Gravis Heavy Bolter units.  Its HINTS.  The Heavy Bolt Rifle with 1 per 5 Heavy Bolters upgrades.

Have you not seen the box art for Armageddon?

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

Have you not seen the box art for Armageddon?

 

Yup, here he is.

 

[MoriyaSchism]

Here's my delusional take on which Marines should go to legends, which kits should be replaced with a new version and how it will sort out infantry datasheet bloat (not counting characters, bikes and centurions). I think all Gravis Marines should be retired with only Tacticus and Phobos Marines remaining on the roster. This came to me after building a list for 3rd edition today. There is no chance in hell this is happening with 11th edition, but it's my idea of a scenario I would enjoy the most. 

• Tactical Squad - merges the classic Tactical Squad with the basic Intercessor Squad while retaining all the Tactical options
• Assault Squad - this entry would turn jump packs into a wargear choice merging the legends Assault Squad, Assault Intercessors and Jump Pack Assault Intercessors into a single datasheet (Suppressors would be sent to legends) 
• Devastator Squad - All the nonsense that came with Primaris Marines is getting sent to legends. Eradicators, Hellblasters, Infernus, Desolators, Heavy Intercessors, Heavy Bolter Intercessors are all getting replaced by a single Devastator Squad with access to all the heavy weapons. There's a catch, no more mixing and matching of weapons. This squad is handled in the same way as the heavy support/support squads from the Horus Heresy game. The sergeant is customizable, but the remaining squad members are required to have matching weapons. 
• Scout Squad - No changes.
• Phobos Infiltration Squad - Rievers are gone as an independent kit and become a wargear choice for Infiltrators, they are relegated to an upgrade sprue with the grav chute bits, skull helmets, bolt pistols/CCW and bolt carbines.
• Phobos Marksman Squad - Eliminators weapons and cloaks are now an upgrade sprue. This unit also has access to Incursor equipment and Oculus bolt carbines as wargear options.
• Sternguard Veterans - No changes here really, maybe expanding their weapon roster slightly. 
• Vanguard Veterans - Considering that all the members of the new Vanguard Squad are armed with plasma pistols we can get rid of the daft looking Inceptors. While we're at it since the jump pack is a piece of wargear let's get rid of the Bladeguard datasheet and give the Bladeguard wargear to the on foot version of the Vanguard Veterans. 
• Terminators - No changes.
• Assault Terminators - No changes

There, I just cut the infantry roster in half while keeping most of the classic flavour. Just tear off the bandaid at this point. Get rid of the difference between Space Marines and gives us one clean unified army list for Codex compliant Chapters. I'd be willing to compromise about Gravis armour if they do something cool with it because at the moment it's just a thicker Space Marine without any of the silhouette change that comes with Terminator armour. 

[Tacitus]

On 4/11/2026 at 3:37 PM, SvenIronhand said:

Have you not seen the box art for Armageddon?

I'm pretty sure that's a Bladeguard Veteran centered on the cover. 

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I'm pretty sure that's a Bladeguard Veteran centered on the cover. 

 

I think it is the new Sword'n'board Captain model.

[Orange Knight]

I think 11th is the end of Firstborn marines in 40k.

 

GW wants to seperate and distinguish the 40k and 30k ranges. We have rumours of a Scouring game expansion for the Heresy system. Mk7 may live again in that game.

 

GW are releasing new Gravis units. People speculated that they were moving away from Gravis but clearly this isn't the case. The Gravis units and other Primaris options are also covering more and more of the weapons associated with the classic Devastators. But we may yet see new Primaris Devs, who knows.

 

The new Vanguard are replacing one of the last few classic kits that still remain.

 

The new Intercessors have visual elements of Tactical Marines, but remain as pure Intercessors in their weapons and function. So they are designed to appease fans of classic Marines but only in a visual sense.

[MoriyaSchism]

9 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

I think 11th is the end of Firstborn marines in 40k.

 

GW wants to seperate and distinguish the 40k and 30k ranges. We have rumours of a Scouring game expansion for the Heresy system. Mk7 may live again in that game.

 

GW are releasing new Gravis units. People speculated that they were moving away from Gravis but clearly this isn't the case. The Gravis units and other Primaris options are also covering more and more of the weapons associated with the classic Devastators. But we may yet see new Primaris Devs, who knows.

 

The new Vanguard are replacing one of the last few classic kits that still remain.

 

The new Intercessors have visual elements of Tactical Marines, but remain as pure Intercessors in their weapons and function. So they are designed to appease fans of classic Marines but only in a visual sense.

Judging by the current Journal Tactica entries for the Horus Heresy I don't have high hopes for the so-called Scouring "expansion". At best you'll see a couple of paper thin Journal Tactica pamphlets with a fraction of the units people still want playable for their Space Marines and maybe a Mark VII kit with the trademark shrunken heads and tiny hands so you don't get any smart ideas about kitbashing these models with your current Space Marine miniatures. Splitting up Space Marine ranges based on scale has been one of the worst decisions GW has made. Why are mortal infantry in the Heresy system scaled like all the other regular humans across the entire Warhammer 40,000 range while Space Marines have been made deliberately smaller? They are even smaller than the current crop of Chaos Space Marines. It's complete nonsense. Is it because they are afraid someone will build an army that's functional in both systems and won't be buying two armies? Even though making a functional army like that in past meant double dipping and buying miniatures meant for both systems and was ultimately more expensive than just sticking to one game system. Because GW are the MVPs of minimum viable products the best you can hope for is reboxes of old Space Marine kits with the Scouring tag on the box.

 

You know that that a thing going to legends ultimately means it will lose rules entirely at some point. Not all old Legends entries made it across editions with the newer Legends PDFs having missing units. There's also the Forgeworld Space Marine character proxy guide PDF which no longer available in the downloads section, you can't even access the link that was in the original Warhammer Community blog post announcing this change. The proxy guide didn't even last until the end of this current edition, they took it down under a year's time. Why would anyone who cares about this game system's legacy care about GW's supposed charity offerings? 

What exactly is the point of separating and distinguishing the 40k and 30k ranges? Isn't this supposed to be a different time period in the same setting with things and fragments of gear from the Heresy showing up as relics in the setting's present? I thought the old FW miniatures showed that off quite well. Doesn't really seem like a separation based on age and signs of stagnation. It just seems like a completely different style in the case of the recent redesigns of Mark III, Mark II, Cataphractii plate and probably some upcoming redesigns too. Certain things simply not resembling their old counterparts. Only aspect that doesn't seem to be following the re-design style are the vehicles which is good. The sad Okawara Gundam style look of the new Mark III helmet simply isn't Warhammer in my eyes. I don't care if the new Mark 3 suit is based on old artwork or miniatures when the execution of it is completely botched. When you look at it dead on it doesn't look like the fierce face plate of a Space Marine, it looks like a set of tired eyes and from any other angle it looks sad. You may disagree but I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way. If I engaged with the hobby in the way GW wanted me to I would honestly be pretty miserable with Warhammer in general kind of like this so-called Mark III legionnaire.