Vanguard Veteran

[Alby the Slayer]

1 hour ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Maybe they're afraid to overdo it, but I feel like they land on "do nothing" with the weapons, way way too often.

 

If they are really afraid to overdo it, we have dark times ahead because they are forgetting one of the core thing of 40k.

 

This model will require a lot of kitbash and I'm ok with that, but as marine veteran is really too meh and even with the problem of avoiding specifing Chapter details, they could have done better for sure.

[Marshal Reinhard]

22 minutes ago, Alby the Slayer said:

 

If they are really afraid to overdo it, we have dark times ahead because they are forgetting one of the core thing of 40k.

 

This model will require a lot of kitbash and I'm ok with that, but as marine veteran is really too meh and even with the problem of avoiding specifing Chapter details, they could have done better for sure.

For what it's worth, I do agree with "christmas tree" analogy that was raised (by Jes Goodwin?) about some of the more decorated older models. Thus a little restraint can absolutely be in order. Less can be more in some cases. 

 

But when it comes to the weapons, 'nothing at all' is too often the case.

[Orange Knight]

Model looks good, if a bit safe.

 

Time for a spicy take:

 

This model would have looked a lot better in Ultramarine colours. They just do veterans very well for showcases because the blue armour with white helmet and trim is more striking than red and gold.

 

Now, going back to this model - I do like it. I appreciate that he isn't a Christmas tree. The pose isn't wowing me, I think they would have served this model better if they had revealed the full unit.

 

I also want to comment on the complaints I've seen. We've had years of some people saying that Primaris went too far with all the armour variations, Gravis is this, Phobos is that, etc etc .

Now we have traditional veterans and people complain that they looks too similar to Assault Intercessors. That's kind of the point - both are wearing the same armour. The veteran has a tabard, a crux terminatus and some other details. I think paintwork will distinguish them further.

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

It really is a damned if they do, damned if they don't thing, huh?

 

If they're clean Primaris aesthetic, then it's boring and lacks the Glamour of the Firstborn equivalents.

If they mix in old armour bits like the Sternguard kit (that people were praising keep in mind), then it's not good enough, not worth it and might as well have been a kitbash.

I would argue they struck a great balance on Space Wolves, Templars, Ultramarines. Look at even the Company Heroes command squad - that would be the perfect level of veterancy for a Vanguard Veteran kit to aspire to.

 

Perhaps there's a super decked up characterful Sergeant and some specialist squaddies they didn't show yet, but that's what happens when you're letting individual trees inform the first impression of a grove.

Edited 18 hours ago by Wispy

[nodnol88]

I means it fine but it’s a bit…plain.

 

I actually think my biggest problem is the tabard doesn’t go all the way up to the breastplate. 
 

Hopefully there’s variation in the multipart kit.

 

[MoriyaSchism]

1 minute ago, nodnol88 said:

I actually think my biggest problem is the tabard doesn’t go all the way up to the breastplate. 

 

That's actually the best part of this miniature. The tucked in tabard is the worst part of all the veteran Primaris miniatures. It's a pain to clean up. 

[Orange Knight]

7 minutes ago, Wispy said:

I would argue they struck a great balance on Space Wolves, Templars, Ultramarines. Look at even the Company Heroes command squad - that would be the perfect level of veterancy for a Vanguard Veteran kit to aspire to.

 

Perhaps there's a super decked up characterful Sergeant and some specialist squaddies they didn't show yet, but that's what happens when you're letting individual trees inform the first impression of a grove.

 

But these guys are below company heroes, and they are chapter agnostic.

 

We can't compare them to the glorious Head Takers or Victrix Guard.

[Moonstalker]

2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

But these guys are below company heroes, and they are chapter agnostic.

 

We can't compare them to the glorious Head Takers or Victrix Guard.

 

They could aspire to be as cool as Head Takers.  They're not "my Primarch lets me have two melee weapons" cool, but they could still be cool.

 

I can see what people are saying with the model being a little under-blinged, but I think I'd prefer that for something like this.  You can always add more bling (whether it's paint or out of the bits box), it's harder to scale it back.

 

What I'd really prefer is for GW to open the tap for more than a drip feed.  One model a week is... weak.  Give us the whole unit.

[Blissful Brushes]

I’m very much hoping this is their most bland veteran to prevent the 3d pinchers from wrecking their sales ahead of time because all of this is pretty much available as standard anyway, or within reach of anybody willing to spend 5 mins digging in their bits box for a MkVII helmet because that’s pretty much all that I can see that’s different.

 

I don’t necessarily need it to be character level coolness but I’d have hope for something like studs on the legs or shoulders, maybe some trim on the armour plates. Something that makes it obvious he’s done his time in the model itself, rather than just me have gold helmet me serve long time me veteran

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Blissful Brushes

[Orange Knight]

4 minutes ago, Moonstalker said:

 

They could aspire to be as cool as Head Takers.  They're not "my Primarch lets me have two melee weapons" cool, but they could still be cool.

 

I can see what people are saying with the model being a little under-blinged, but I think I'd prefer that for something like this.  You can always add more bling (whether it's paint or out of the bits box), it's harder to scale it back.

 

What I'd really prefer is for GW to open the tap for more than a drip feed.  One model a week is... weak.  Give us the whole unit.

 

So what will stop people from customising these? 

 

I'll say again. These models are chapter agnostic. These are not Blood Angels, they are merely painted as such.

 

They can't make them too flashy in a certain way because they'll end up leaning too much towards a certain chapter.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It is a nice model, though I don't feel it has enough 'bling' for lack of a better word. Just doesn't seem that special over a regular jump pack intercessor.

[Moonstalker]

1 minute ago, Orange Knight said:

 

So what will stop people from customising these? 

 

I'll say again. These models are chapter agnostic. These are not Blood Angels, they are merely painted as such.

 

They can't make them too flashy in a certain way because they'll end up leaning too much towards a certain chapter.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm agreeing with you.  I think it's best that they're a little under-blinged and they leave room for people to dress them up.  If they were already at maximum bling, and you added some more chapter-specific ornamentation on top of it, then they start to be a little over the top.  I'm just saying that I can understand the other point of view, too, that he does look a little plain like this.  I just think that amount of plain-ness is desirable, so long as you've got the skills and/or bits to push it up to the level you want.

[Karhedron]

4 hours ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

That’s my point - pauldron trim has historically been red across the line and now they’re doing gold with veterancy.

 

If you go back as far as 2nd edition, Blood Angels had black trim on their shoulder pads (something that I actually stuck with, even when the new Primaris models came out). GW have shown that they are going back to black shoulder trim in 11th which means gold trim for the Vanguard actually matches. Strangely, the Bladeguard Vets have gold trim but the Sternguard do not which means that they are now the odd-ones-out.

 

But none of this answers the crucial question. Why don't BA Terminators have gold helmets? 

 

 

[Timberley]

Well, he's definitely one of the Marines of All Time.  When I first saw the image on WarCom, I thought it was a resculpt of the Jump Pack Marine, which seemed bizarre given how new they are.  As other Frater have pointed out - it's rather bland/dull for a Vanguard Vet, especially compared to our modern Sternguard.  I'm not expecting ostentatious bling, but certainly more ornamentation to mark them out.  The old kit wasn't massively flashy, but there was enough there to mark them out as definitely more than standard Assault Marines.

[Karhedron]

The model looks fine, not particularly exciting but fine. I would prefer a little more decoration but there we go.

 

What interests me is what the new weapons loadout will be as I am sure most people were underwhelmed when "Relic weapons" became chainswords with +1S. He has a Plasma Pistol which fist with the current loadout but the sword is described as being Master Crafted. Having the same weapons and BGVs would certainly be interesting. Or will it be that most of the squad retain their Relic Weapons and 1/5 Marines gets a MCPW? Will Shields still be an option when the MPK comes out? I am guess Hammers will be consigned to Legends.

 

So many questions.

[Blindhamster]

So it actually used to be that blood angels 3rd company are the ones with black trim, whilst the other companies stick to red (veterans potentially being gold, or not, varied). 

Looks like this guy is from 5th company though.

2 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The model looks fine, not particularly exciting but fine. I would prefer a little more decoration but there we go.

 

What interests me is what the new weapons loadout will be as I am sure most people were underwhelmed when "Relic weapons" became chainswords with +1S. He has a Plasma Pistol which fist with the current loadout but the sword is described as being Master Crafted. Having the same weapons and BGVs would certainly be interesting. Or will it be that most of the squad retain their Relic Weapons and 1/5 Marines gets a MCPW? Will Shields still be an option when the MPK comes out? I am guess Hammers will be consigned to Legends.

 

So many questions.

Based on the trailer, they all have the swords, i thought they all had plasma pistols too, but valrak says not

 

edit 

 

trailer definitely has more than 1 with plasma pistol

Edited 17 hours ago by Blindhamster

[Orange Knight]

I imagine they'll all have Master-Crafted Power Swords.

 

In fact that sword looks very similar to the one used by the Bladeguard Veterans.

This would be a pretty spicy unit on the tabletop as a result.

 

I wonder if they'll have any additional options in the full release. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

22 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

So what will stop people from customising these? 

 

I'll say again. These models are chapter agnostic. These are not Blood Angels, they are merely painted as such.

 

They can't make them too flashy in a certain way because they'll end up leaning too much towards a certain chapter.

'Customising these' will mean, for most people, adding purity seals or hanging bits, like small crux from the belt, so already covering half of the details here that separates this guy from a bog standard JPI. Non chapter agnostic decorations they could've made: armor trims, weapon ornamentation, some kind of pattern on the holster, something on the jumpack.

 

Even if you think the old vanguard kit goes too far, this guy is a lot closer to a completely undecorated JPI than those. You can pretty much get the same result as this guy, by just kitbashing a normal JPI with a sternguard pad and some ordinary bits. It just barely goes beyond the non veteran kit here.

 

I feel more excited to use this guy among my normal jump intercessors, because it mixes in a loin cloth that's a tricky thing to add. Let's see if the rest of the squad changes this, but then I'd have to ask why they started with mr plain here.

[DemonGSides]

I'm not too worried about whatever comes out of the Armageddon box; those are always pretty reserved, generally built to be as "BASIC" as possible so that A) new collectors have something to try out and B) they can fit into any existing collectors range without any of the concern from some previous posters.

 

As long as the full release comes with enough stuff to throw at them as extras on the sprue, we're okay.  Some people like a lot of doohickey, some people like little doohickey.  Better to be a bit bland and have the option to make it look like it took a glue covered roll in the bits box IF you prefer that way, than have it be a pain in the ass to remove a ton of sculpted detail.

It'll depend on the full sprue pics of the actual full kit.  Nothing we see for the starting box is all that indicative of anything other than 'base-line'.

Edited 17 hours ago by DemonGSides

[jaxom]

Armageddon box is themed around 2nd edition launch box. No surprise to me that the Vanguard Veteran shown hews to 2nd edition Space Marine aesthetic for Veteran Sergeants.

[Crimson Longinus]

So it looks like a jump Intercessor with a bit more bling. Which is not necessarily terribly interesting but is also exactly what one would expect a Primaris Vanguard Veteran to look like. So I really do not understand why people are upset. It is fine. 

[LittlePlasticHomies]

Worth saying how much better the push fit sculpts have gotten. My first box was Dark Imperium and this is clearly going to blow that one out of the water.

[Larkhainan]

I like JPIs, they're nice models, and this is a JPI. My expectations were set too high with the rumored "blinged out phobos armor vanguard vets" which was probably made up.

 

I'll probably end up buying thirty of these for conversions but I'm not sure "A fine base for conversion and decoration" is the ideal, but then, it is the pushfit version and maybe the actual kit will have better options

[Karhedron]

21 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

So it looks like a jump Intercessor with a bit more bling. Which is not necessarily terribly interesting but is also exactly what one would expect a Primaris Vanguard Veteran to look like. So I really do not understand why people are upset. It is fine. 

 

It is adequate. I think people agree with the concept but feel the execution was under-done. I was expecting a bit more bling than that. It is considerably less decorated than the Firstborn VanVet kit it replaces as well as the Sternguard and Bladeguard Primaris kits it sits alongside.

[ThaneOfTas]

Look I was never going to like this short of an absolute miracle. I cannot stand the design of JPIs and I wasn't expecting to like this.

 

But I was really hoping that is at least be tempted by some bits here and there. Wow does that look dull though. The only piece that I like is the Aquila chest plate.

 

Also everyone saying that adding on detail is easier seem to be going out of their way to misunderstand what kinds of details we as asking for. Head and pauldron swaps are obvious, no one needs it pointed out that we can do that. And the various keychain/charm bracelet bits likewise do not need poinying out. But what upgrade kits come with new greaves with additional scrollwork or whatever these are? Which one comes with actually ornamented weapons or jump packs?

 

If you honestly think that adding details like that is easier than scraping them off then I'm going to need you to share a tutorial or two because as it stands I think that you're full of it.