Vanguard Veteran

[jaxom]

I'm wondering about the rest of the Squad. One mini can undersell a squad. For example, the Sternguard below is the same level as ornamentation. Crux on pauldron and helmet, one knee/leg decoration, a purity seal, plain looking weapon, a tabard, crux medallion at waist.

 

 

[TheVoidDragon]

I think they look alright, but other than the not seeming much like a Vanguard Veteran that has already been mentioned, I can't say that the whole "They're having to use older armour parts" is something that so far feels like it's actually much of a thing.

[Crimson Longinus]

9 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Look I was never going to like this short of an absolute miracle. I cannot stand the design of JPIs and I wasn't expecting to like this.

 

But I was really hoping that is at least be tempted by some bits here and there. Wow does that look dull though. The only piece that I like is the Aquila chest plate.

 

Also everyone saying that adding on detail is easier seem to be going out of their way to misunderstand what kinds of details we as asking for. Head and pauldron swaps are obvious, no one needs it pointed out that we can do that. And the various keychain/charm bracelet bits likewise do not need poinying out. But what upgrade kits come with new greaves with additional scrollwork or whatever these are? Which one comes with actually ornamented weapons or jump packs?

 

If you honestly think that adding details like that is easier than scraping them off then I'm going to need you to share a tutorial or two because as it stands I think that you're full of it.

 

That looks pretty terrible though, so it is good it is not there. 

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

In fact that sword looks very similar to the one used by the Bladeguard Veterans.

This would be a pretty spicy unit on the tabletop as a result.

 

It would indeed! Assuming they keep the 4A profile, that would be 50 Attacks on the charge with LAG or RCO from a full 10-man squad. They should be able to take down a big-boy Knight on the Charge if led by a Chaplain. 

[Blindhamster]

21 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

If you honestly think that adding details like that is easier than scraping them off then I'm going to need you to share a tutorial or two because as it stands I think that you're full of it.

 

tbf, this guys legs were not great. 

The actual details actually would be fairly easy with green stuff, the sole exception being the small aquilla. But still possible.

[Armchair Warlord]

A whole lot of 'and so what?' going on with this miniature.

[Orange Knight]

@jaxom makes a great comparison to the Sternguard veteran.

 

The new Sternguard are a well liked kit. The level of ornamentation is about the same as this new Vanguard Veteran.

 

I'll say it again. I think the Ultramarine 1st company colours would have been more striking, but that's just my take.

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Blissful Brushes said:

I’m very much hoping this is their most bland veteran to prevent the 3d pinchers from wrecking their sales ahead of time because all of this is pretty much available as standard anyway, or within reach of anybody willing to spend 5 mins digging in their bits box for a MkVII helmet because that’s pretty much all that I can see that’s different.

 

I don’t necessarily need it to be character level coolness but I’d have hope for something like studs on the legs or shoulders, maybe some trim on the armour plates. Something that makes it obvious he’s done his time in the model itself, rather than just me have gold helmet me serve long time me veteran

 

 

3D printers have been making scaled-up vanguard vet equivalents for a long time already. Everything from "counts-as proxy" to "yeah that's a straight up copy." I doubt GW made the model plain to get in front of that, however.

[ThaneOfTas]

28 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

The actual details actually would be fairly easy with green stuff

Maybe if you're already good at sculpting with greenstuff, however that does not remotely change my point that there is no way that anyone is going to be able to convince me that scupling that with green stuff is simpler or easier than scraping it off with a hobby knife and a fine grit sandpaper. 

[grailkeeper]

I wonder how convertible he'll be? He looks very convertible. I've seen some cool conversions of Aethon Shaan. This guy looks like more of a blank canvas. 

[Wispy]

Bring back gold garters 

[Blindhamster]

3 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Maybe if you're already good at sculpting with greenstuff, however that does not remotely change my point that there is no way that anyone is going to be able to convince me that scupling that with green stuff is simpler or easier than scraping it off with a hobby knife and a fine grit sandpaper. 

depends which bits we mean? 

Do we just mean the bits on the shins and knees? Or do we mean the pteruges and rope and purity seals too? 

If just the shins and knees? Its a very low effort task that I'm 100% sure I could do and have looking good faster than I could remove and not ruin the model in the process (excluding the aquilla - but if the model I was doing it on already had a knee ornament in the middle, id just skip the aquilla anyway). Removing the rim on the knee without wrecking them (and keeping the aquilla for equivalence in the example!) would be much harder than a thin sausage of GS around the knee. The little bits on the shins are super basic and would be easy to sculpt but I agree probably equally easy to remove (I think I'd still sculpt it quicker than I could remove it and have it perfectly smooth though). 

If we're talking the ropes, pteruges and purity seals too? Then no, removing them would be much more work than I want to do (and I wouldn't sculpt all of that on there as that particular set of legs was egregious for amount of stuff in the first placve). I actually know for sure as I've removed those details on those exact legs before - except the pteruges which are basically impossible to remove without needing to rescult the armour - which is a bigger ask if you want good results.

 

I'm a reasonable sculptor, so I recognise that it's not necessarily something everyone could do, but if all you want to do is add the little reliquery shaped bits and a trim to the knees - its not difficult. Sculpting stuff like wreaths, wings, skulls, aquillas etc? That's much harder but this model already has a skull with terminatus symbol and a wreath on the leg. 

Tbf, I do like some ostentation at times though and agree that most is far beyond even passable sculptors like myself, I just think the example model you used wasn't a good one for the issue you're thinking about - the ones posted by wispy are probably better as they have actual complex shapes on most of them, plus things like extra studs (also harder than the simple flat shapes from the mk4 vanguard legs you shared). 

 

final thought on the scrape and sand point - its only easy if the part you want to remove is very easily accessible, if it is, and you arent worried about any surrounding details - super easy, the moment you want to preserve anything very close its very difficult, similarly if its not totally open and easy to access, its challenging, and often you end up with the area the detail was removed from being slightly warped, be it slightly indented or slightly protruding - not an issue if you plan to replace the detail with something else, big deal if you want to paint it plain or even put transfers on. 

 

[ThaneOfTas]

18 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Do we just mean the bits on the shins and knees? Or do we mean the pteruges and rope and purity seals too? 

I was primarily referring to then shins and knees, although the ropes and pteruges also fit my point. Purity seals are easy to come by thankfully and so them i dont worry about.

 

22 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

If just the shins and knees? Its a very low effort task that I'm 100% sure I could do and have looking good faster than I could remove and not ruin the model in the process

Are you honestly telling me that you could get a reliquiary bit on a blank shin that actually looks good in under 30 minutes? (and I'm being generous with the time here). 

 

Also what are you talking about with the knee rim? with the exception of the starter box versions those are incredibly easy to trim off, You just need a sharp knife. The only time one has ever given me trouble is on one of the start box sculps because the flange was in a single piece with the rest of the leg and so had nothing behind it. 

35 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

except the pteruges which are basically impossible to remove without needing to rescult the armour

They're also basically impossible to sculpt on and make them look good without being far, far more skilled than i am so kind of at an impass here.

 

38 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I actually know for sure as I've removed those details on those exact legs before

Why would you not just have used the standard assault marine legs then? Surely it would be far easier to add whatever minor detail you want to those if adding detail is as easy as you're claiming?

 

43 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Tbf, I do like some ostentation at times though and agree that most is far beyond even passable sculptors like myself, I just think the example model you used wasn't a good one for the issue you're thinking about - the ones posted by wispy are probably better as they have actual complex shapes on most of them, plus things like extra studs (also harder than the simple flat shapes from the mk4 vanguard legs you shared). 

Look the example that I showed was just the first one that I could think of with significant detail on the shins, but yes, the ones Wispy posted are a much better example. Covered in the kinds of details that the new model lacks and not stuff that can just be added on with an upgrade sprue or a bits box despite what many people are thoughtlessly claiming.

 

46 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

final thought on the scrape and sand point - its only easy if the part you want to remove is very easily accessible, if it is, and you arent worried about any surrounding details - super easy, the moment you want to preserve anything very close its very difficult, similarly if its not totally open and easy to access, its challenging, and often you end up with the area the detail was removed from being slightly warped, be it slightly indented or slightly protruding - not an issue if you plan to replace the detail with something else, big deal if you want to paint it plain or even put transfers on. 

Literally all of that except the warping applies to moulding details on, except arguably more so. The closer that you put a new bit of detail to an existing one the more perfect that it needs too look, or else it looks even more sloppy in comparison, and the easily accessible the area, the more difficult it is to sculpt.

[Moonstalker]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

@jaxom makes a great comparison to the Sternguard veteran.

 

The new Sternguard are a well liked kit. The level of ornamentation is about the same as this new Vanguard Veteran.

 

I'll say it again. I think the Ultramarine 1st company colours would have been more striking, but that's just my take.

 

A quick edit to indulge you.

[Larkhainan]

Simply changing the cloth so it looks decorative and not a droopy undercarriage is a massive improvement

[Orange Knight]

3 hours ago, Moonstalker said:

 

A quick edit to indulge you.

 

Excellent, thank you. I do think he stands out more now.

 

This isn't a criticism of the beautiful, BA paint scheme by the way. I just feel that in the case of BA, units like the all-Gold Sanguinary Guard and the all-Black Death Company have the more striking schemes.

[Brother Paint]

The problem is that the primaris have always been a bit bland and one dimensional, same with the first box of third ed multipart marines , people just slapped bits on later to make them more ornate. The rerelease in 4th or 5th brought in more purity seals, hangers and bling, then in 8th it was toned down, far too much. 
 

the metal vanguard and sternguard had slightly more ornate gear then when moved to plastics that was turned up to 11, the terminators resculpt from old to new size didn’t differentiate too much from the past editions apart from less stuff like scroll hangers and other reliquary.

 

I am hoping that the multipart release will have more individuality for the squad but looking at the Leviathan sternguard and multipart there’s only a few bits slightly have individual character. And the miniature shown off is push fit but also I have a problem that some people are saying it’s a sergeant, don’t blood angel sarge’s have black pads? So this maybe a squad member  and the animated one with the helm and bionic eye the actual sarge? 
 

As any old duffer and zimmer lord ( venerable ancient like farther Jack) I’ve a huge bits box and will add parts to bling them up like I did with my victrix and Cato to make them more like the old metals ( the lack of purity’s seals was disturbing) 

 

In the end I think this release is more for the Orks, but even so that they are drip feeding supposed to do with the 3D printer brigade ( they’ve allready slammed out a Red Terror ) it’s not going to stop people printing 

 

Still going to buy a box if I can and hope the scalpers don’t get there first ! 

 

 

[Orange Knight]

Perhaps GW shouldn't be listening to the community and instead of going back to update all the classic units, they should be releasing all new designs as they did in 8th and 9th editions.

 

Say what you want, but when the Eradicators and the Bladeguard were revealed there was genuine excitement for the units and the models as well.

 

I would love to see a re-invetion of the Centurions. Not the silly Marine inside a Marine. A proper heavy weapons unit that can deal significant damage in shooting or combat. 

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Perhaps GW shouldn't be listening to the community and instead of going back to update all the classic units, they should be releasing all new designs as they did in 8th and 9th editions.

 

Say what you want, but when the Eradicators and the Bladeguard were revealed there was genuine excitement for the units and the models as well.

 

I would love to see a re-invetion of the Centurions. Not the silly Marine inside a Marine. A proper heavy weapons unit that can deal significant damage in shooting or combat. 

I do feel a bit the same in honesty. It feels a bit too much trying to hit the nostalgia button amd hoping that people will lap it up.

 

Then again, it seems to be a winning tactic for them otherwise.

[jimbo1701]

I love the classic aesthetic and organization of marine chapters - this is what I have grown up with and the departure from this when 8th came along gave me mixed feelings. While a bitter pill to swallow it’s been abundantly clear since the beginning of 10th that firstborn are no more and the lines between old and new are now blurred. I do feel the animal needs its suffering to end now and the tactical / devastator squads need to finally be laid to rest. (As an aside genuinely excited for these scouring rumours which may revisit this) 

 

Having said that, while I miss a lot of these concepts and have ample firstborn armies should I wish to paint / play with them, the new marine models are vastly superior in scale / design. While I miss the old jump packs and straps, the new models will undoubtedly be easier for new starters to assemble and paint and can be customized by oldies like myself to suit. There are a wealth of 3rd party parts, decal, upgrade sprue bits and parts from other kits that can be added to spruce things up if desired. Easier to add than take away. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

9 hours ago, jaxom said:

I'm wondering about the rest of the Squad. One mini can undersell a squad. For example, the Sternguard below is the same level as ornamentation. Crux on pauldron and helmet, one knee/leg decoration, a purity seal, plain looking weapon, a tabard, crux medallion at waist.

 

 

That plain looking weapon is actually sporting a crux symbol, further marking veterancy. The weapon is also giving a customized look, by having both the big boxy magazine as well as a scope (less of a thing now that individual bolt rifle profiles are gone). Really minor yes, but it's there. 

[Arkley]

12 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

If you go back as far as 2nd edition, Blood Angels had black trim on their shoulder pads (something that I actually stuck with, even when the new Primaris models came out). GW have shown that they are going back to black shoulder trim in 11th which means gold trim for the Vanguard actually matches. Strangely, the Bladeguard Vets have gold trim but the Sternguard do not which means that they are now the odd-ones-out.

 

But none of this answers the crucial question. Why don't BA Terminators have gold helmets? 

 

Question for the ages.... It never made sense.... I did these for a friend.

[ArcusArmis]

1 hour ago, Arkley said:

 

Question for the ages.... It never made sense.... I did these for a friend.

Those look incredible mate. Excellent work!

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

2 hours ago, Arkley said:

 

Question for the ages.... It never made sense.... I did these for a friend.

 

 

These guys look great. Did you sculpt all the BA bling by hand with green-stuff or are there 3D printed elements in there? I really am curious how you achieved these models. Great stuff anyway, kudos.

Edited 3 hours ago by FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants

[Matcap86]

The briliant Requiem82 on instagram (link) converted up my ideal crosspolination of primaris and old-school marines assault marines. I would have liked to get something more along these lines: