11th edition SW info

[TiguriusX]

 

 

Grey hunter detachment allows them to split into 5 man units

 

GH also get to perform actions and shoot

 

Might see some GH heavy play in the future

 

Lots of other info as welll...worth the watch.

 

Hopefully link takes directly to SW section

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I have mixed feelings about the grey hunter detachment. My first reaction was that it was ironic that they were basically fixing grey hunters by giving them combat squads which is funny but does the job. After a while it started to bug me because it's like they realized that the 10-model minimum was a bad ideal, and instead of fixing it on the data sheet they made a conditional fix. Depending on how the detachment points work it may be easy justify but they definitely made it feel like they created a solution to problem they made rather than gave me something exciting. 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Brother Hellion]

I hate that the new Primaris GH don't have a lot of options when it comes to firepower. I mean why can't they double deuce some plasma guns like their first born brethren?

[lonewolf81]

The counter charge rule becomes worse every time is introduced, the champions of fenris was one of the worst grotmas detachments , then came the 2 CP strat in saga of the bold and now the detachment with no actual buff , no one is gonna have the CP to use that detachment rule, they should have made tha first part of heroic intervention free and the second part 1CP when using this detachment. The other  2 detachments look fun but nowhere close to the old ones . For example saga of the greatwolf looks alot better than 2 or 3 of those detachments combined. I mostly play incursion games and i am worried that if the old detachments cost 2 points none is gonna play the new ones ( except super friendly games) in incursion

Edited 21 hours ago by lonewolf81

[Karhedron]

Yes, all the new detachments look very weak (Blood Angels are the same). I get that we can stack 2 or 3 of these but even stacking all the SW ones doesn't come close to army-wide Lethal Hits from Saga of the Beastslayer.

[DanPesci]

Yep, none of these look great, especially compared to what we already have.

 

- Heroic intervention one has always been weak, and savvy opponents just stay away from you or shoot you off the table before you can do anything. I dont see this changing much with the new edition unless the new obj/terrain REALLY changes this up somehow.

 

- Terminator one seems bland. +1 to charge is....ok, but we already have a reroll charges detachment. +1T enhancement doesnt do a lot when we already have -1 to wound agasint the stuff that counts. Uppy downy...fine...but already sick of the amount of this in the game.

 

- Grey Hunter one should be a datasheet fix, not a detachment - Love my GH, have 30-40 of them, and they need some love, but having to forgoe damage buffs that the army needs currently to compete, to be able to have them work as a unit is not great. Grey Hunters still being overcosted and limited to 10 man only outside of the detachment is still really bad.

 

Also... why is it called 'Veterans of the fang'. Grey hunters are our tactical/assualt equivalent lol. Sure, theyre more veteran than a bloodclaw squad...but thats why theyre reduced to less than 10 men....pls read your own lore GW.

 

 

9 hours ago, Brother Hellion said:

I hate that the new Primaris GH don't have a lot of options when it comes to firepower. I mean why can't they double deuce some plasma guns like their first born brethren?

 

100% agreed, but never mind plasma guns...gimme back my rhinos/razorbacks!!!

 

 

 

 

Quote

I get that we can stack 2 or 3 of these but even stacking all the SW ones doesn't come close to army-wide Lethal Hits from Saga of the Beastslayer.

 

 

Yeah I guess this will be the 'saving grace' depending how all the detachment mixing works. Theres a world where you could have Grey Hunters in one half for scoring, and then fill the rest of your army (Headtakers/Termies) with lethal hits/beastslayer but ive still no idea if that work/how things fit together.

 

But my reaction to most of these detachments (not just ours) is.... why have they not just fixed the ones that were already there/unplayed rather than adding even more bloat to the game.

I do not need 7 ways to play my wolves (47+ if you include SM detachments) or my admech. I already had issues with the way 10th worked (some units basically unplayable unless you take x3 in 'their detachment', or becoming under effective elsewhere because they've been points nerfed due to one detachment) - and this looks to be doubling down on that rather that just working on having solid army/unit rules with good internal codex balance.

[SvenIronhand]

52 minutes ago, DanPesci said:

- Grey Hunter one should be a datasheet fix, not a detachment - Love my GH, have 30-40 of them, and they need some love, but having to forgoe damage buffs that the army needs currently to compete, to be able to have them work as a unit is not great. Grey Hunters still being overcosted and limited to 10 man only outside of the detachment is still really bad.

 

I'm more up on the Grey Hunters one. I think if it's a 1 pointer, it could see some usage. 

Personally, between you and me, damage buffs aren't the end-all be-all.

[Karhedron]

29 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

Personally, between you and me, damage buffs aren't the end-all be-all.

 

True. But they are easy and also easy to compare. I often recommend Beastslayer to new starters because it is a simple, always-on buff that gets better if you manage to complete your Saga. Some Detachments provide more tricks but come with a learning curve.

[DanPesci]

5 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

I'm more up on the Grey Hunters one. I think if it's a 1 pointer, it could see some usage. 

Personally, between you and me, damage buffs aren't the end-all be-all.

 

 

I've used Hunter just as much as Beastslayer this edition so agree with you, but beastlayer as a nice easy buff is hard to beat.

 

 

Also...

I think id missed in the original article that the detachments can provide rules to your WHOLE army:

 

"The Detachments will then give rules that will apply to your whole army, though certain Detachments and rules may only affect certain units within it."

 

Which means (I think?!?) that if  say Beastslayer or Hunter stay the same (affecting all SW units), and are 2 points each... You could take one of them.

And then if the GH/TDA ones are 1 point. Add one of those in.

The whole army still gets the rules from beastslayer/hunter, but you make your grey hunters or terminators better (or gain the heroic intervene stuff)

 

If this is the way the newer ones work, id be much more positive about it, and take back what i said earlier about them being not very good haha :)

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by DanPesci

[Wolf Guard Dan]

My thoughts mirror most of what was said here. The grey hunters detachment may turn out good if actions are really a big part of the missions. I thought the video was overselling how good boltguns are. It might end up being good to shoot to clear chaff and then do an action. I suspect the base detachments will be 2 points and the unit enhancing detachments will be 1. Being able to take units of 5 should be a data sheet change. Doing actions and a damage buff should have been detachment rule. I am looking forward to 5 grey hunters and a battle leader setup that chaos legionnaires and lords currently do.

I had the suspicion that codexes coming out since last spring had 11th edition in mind. 

[TiguriusX]

4 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

My thoughts mirror most of what was said here. The grey hunters detachment may turn out good if actions are really a big part of the missions. I thought the video was overselling how good boltguns are. It might end up being good to shoot to clear chaff and then do an action. I suspect the base detachments will be 2 points and the unit enhancing detachments will be 1. Being able to take units of 5 should be a data sheet change. Doing actions and a damage buff should have been detachment rule. I am looking forward to 5 grey hunters and a battle leader setup that chaos legionnaires and lords currently do.

I had the suspicion that codexes coming out since last spring had 11th edition in mind. 

 

I've tested mass GH in various detachments (Bastion and Beastslayer etc.)

The lack of AP absolutely kills their value...I vividly remember firing at astra militarum basic ass infantry and they were saving on 3s and laughing at me with their buffs/combos
Then they would plasma me on their turn and wipe out the GH squad

[Wolf Guard Dan]

1 hour ago, TiguriusX said:

 

I've tested mass GH in various detachments (Bastion and Beastslayer etc.)

The lack of AP absolutely kills their value...I vividly remember firing at astra militarum basic ass infantry and they were saving on 3s and laughing at me with their buffs/combos
Then they would plasma me on their turn and wipe out the GH squad

I vaguely remember there might be a strat or enhancement to give GH -1 AP with bolters. And that cover is now reduced ballistic skill those guardsmen won’t be saving on 3’s. Thats still a lot to invest in a unit to make it playable. I’d rather use a detachment point to make an already good unit better. 
 

Edit: I think my post for flagged for using the short term for ballistic skill. Really think that shouldn’t be a flagged term. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Wolf Guard Dan

[jaxom]

9 hours ago, DanPesci said:

Which means (I think?!?) that if  say Beastslayer or Hunter stay the same (affecting all SW units), and are 2 points each... You could take one of them.

And then if the GH/TDA ones are 1 point. Add one of those in.

The whole army still gets the rules from beastslayer/hunter, but you make your grey hunters or terminators better (or gain the heroic intervene stuff)

This has been confirmed by a WarCom social media post. Sign up for the Runeseers!

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

19 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Yes, all the new detachments look very weak (Blood Angels are the same). I get that we can stack 2 or 3 of these but even stacking all the SW ones doesn't come close to army-wide Lethal Hits from Saga of the Beastslayer.

 

I have heard that all of the detachments they've shown are 1-point detachments. If that's true then they should be weak, I'm curious to see if that means that existing codex ones will typically cost 2 points? If that's the case you would basically have one detachment that does the heavy lifting, and one that adds some flavor. Otherwise, I agree with you that all 3 aren't as good SotB (I'd go a bit further, and say that they're worse than any of our book's detachments).

 

Edit: @jaxom - Nice I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

 

3 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

I vaguely remember there might be a strat or enhancement to give GH -1 AP with bolters. And that cover is now reduced ballistic skill those guardsmen won’t be saving on 3’s. Thats still a lot to invest in a unit to make it playable. I’d rather use a detachment point to make an already good unit better. 
 

Edit: I think my post for flagged for using the short term for ballistic skill. Really think that shouldn’t be a flagged term. 

 

The AP buff Is part of an enhancement you give to a WGBL (they also ignore cover). For what's it's worth I do like all the buffs that they gave them everything sounds useful. It's just frustrating because if they'd made the change to data sheet, and the detachment bonus was the action & shoot ability I'd be pretty excited about it. Instead, I feel pushed towards a detachment to fix a unit that I'd only really want to run a couple of squads of. 

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure I had a post flagged for that once as well, and I agree it probably shouldn't trigger one. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Jorin Helm-splitter