The closing of the Necromancy thread and its consequences...

[Taliesin]

Agree that it is pointless to close that very long running thread. I vote for re-opening.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

this thread is as active as the old thread was!

 

Mate, this thread has seen more activity in a few days than this whole subforum has seen in weeks.

 

Quote

feels like a gut punch because Horus and the Luna Wolves are so noble and you know exactly whats going to happen to them

 

The more I've had time to think on it, the more Rising feels superfluous. It's an early draft of the Heresy, a vision of an Imperium that we never see again anywhere. Not just because 'everything suddenly goes to bits' - it was never true. We see a spreading griminess in Rising, Horus bemoaning the imposition of heavier and heavier tithes, Karkasy and Loken gazing at their navels regarding aggressive propaganda that will change worlds over time, but it's all foreshadowing. Not of 'the bloodiest and most oppressive regime imaginable', but 'things aren't so great beneath the surface'. It's a book about an Imperium that's starting to groan under its own weight, not one that already has cyber-cherubs and other common horrors.

 

False Gods is the better starting point for the series now, because Davin SUCKS BUTT. Everything SUCKS BUTT. Here's BUTT HORUS coming to the BUTTWORLD that his BUTT COMMANDER is currently rebelling on due to LACK OF BUTTS. Horus in False Gods is tired and frustrated and beaten down by his time as Warmaster for the regime, he's watching everything he and his men sacrificed for being stomped into the ground by the sheer grinding oppression of the Imperium. This is crucial in this analysis because we don't ever see the Imperium as 'good', nobody talks about keeping it good, it's just less bad than Old Night (which, granted, is a big improvement, but still). There is no 'dream', no 'veneer' - Horus knows what he is, what he's doing and he's just sick of it all. It's Horus at his absolute lowest ebb. Once he's wounded he sits in his deathbed raving to a chronicler about how, GODS, HE WAS STRONG THEN. He doesn't even really struggle against it. He's given up. And the rot is in his Legion, too: the Mournival are hopelessly compromised, Erebus is playing everyone, they just murdered a whole bunch of normal people for the crime of Not Moving Fast Enough. It's all BUTTS and the BUTTMASTER can't or won't do anything about it. He's done.

 

When he's on his vision quest, he's free! He's having a great time, he's unbound, he's happier than we've seen him anywhere else. Yes, he knows he's not actually talking to Sejanus, but he doesn't really care. But when he sees the 'future' and how their sacrifices meant nothing, he gets upset. When he watches his father let he and his brothers be stolen - and live the terrible, miserable lives some of them led - he gets furious. The old, tired warrior finds that he has unexpected allies - ones he doesn't trust, but whose cause he aligns with, for now.

 

False Gods read first positions Horus at his nadir, then has him gain the resolve to fight for humanity by the end. Combine this with the character work done in Dropsite Massacre, and you go in a few books from Horus at his lowest to the Warmaster getting back in the saddle in Galaxy in Flames (with a lot of miscommunication and confusion as the Traitors experience tons of friction) to genuinely forging them into a cohesive fighting force in Dropsite Massacre, with his strength, charisma and leadership all at their peak. If that's our 'opening trilogy', we have Horus as a dark protagonist, a man who must fight former friends and allies who are blinded by the promises of a golden tyrant on Terrra as he seeks to restore the Imperium to what it was truly meant to be... while the evil forces already within his ranks twist that noble goal to their own ends.

 

TL;DR WHERE IS THE PRIMARCH NOVEL YOU HACK FRAUDS

[The Scorpion]

On 6/19/2026 at 11:27 AM, Krelious said:

 

Now at the same time ive also been reading Hand of Abbadon and holy is this book kinda like I take it to doctor's offices to kill time and its just words coming off a page. Its not necessarily bad its just a lot of the characters like Ferren Arious I couldnt give two :cuss:s about. I feel like im just reading this book because I want to get to The Silent King which seems like it could be good.

 

Well I'm glad you like it, because Ferren Areios has his own book now.

Edited June 22 by The Scorpion

[grailkeeper]

Does anyone know if Ferren Areios has a book now?

 

[The Scorpion]

My bad, I had laggy :cuss: internet and it posted like 3 times

[grailkeeper]

16 minutes ago, The Scorpion said:

My bad, I had laggy internet and it posted like 3 times

Its happened to me a few times too, just messing !

[The Scorpion]

On 6/19/2026 at 12:37 AM, Nagashsnee said:

See i remember this for the Mike Brooks eldar book thread, that went off the rails hard. But i dont remember it going so bad in Necromancy, might just have missed it.

 

I remember that too. It was one of the main drives behind the closing of Necromancy, so much so that I forgot it happened on a completely separate thread!

 

What reasons even remain in our current day and age to justify the continued closure of Necromancy?

 

Nearly everyone here wants it back. For different reasons maybe, but that was the beauty of it: everyone had a different reason to join

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Mods making poor decisions is right on brand for B&C. 

 

 

[The Scorpion]

It is fine, everyone makes mistakes.

[theSpirea]

Is anything going to change? Based on this thread, it looks like no one is happy with the change. This sub-section has only a handful of active contributors and I don't see this change having a single positive impact. B&C feels like GW at this point, coming up with random, pointless changes to BL

[Nagashsnee]

4 hours ago, theSpirea said:

Is anything going to change? Based on this thread, it looks like no one is happy with the change. This sub-section has only a handful of active contributors and I don't see this change having a single positive impact. B&C feels like GW at this point, coming up with random, pointless changes to BL

Once Steiners re organasational push of the black library section is complete all will be well. You just need to be patient and believe. 

[Ubiquitous1984]

If someone started a new post would any mod even notice?

[Scribe]

6 hours ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

If someone started a new post would any mod even notice?

 

Considering the state of BL in general right now, doubtful, though I'm sure some narc would snitch.

 

I was complaining to myself the other day, when will ADB or Wraight give me something worth the time and money to read?!

 

Dire.

[grailkeeper]

12 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Once Steiners re organasational push of the black library section is complete all will be well. You just need to be patient and believe. 

Didn't know big poppa pump edited Bl

 

[wecanhaveallthree]

I don't believe ADB has any more books in him.

 

Having now said that, I imagine there'll be an announcement in the next few hours about him authoring the next Scouring book. 

[The Scorpion]

On 6/19/2026 at 10:22 PM, wecanhaveallthree said:

 

Mate, this thread has seen more activity in a few days than this whole subforum has seen in weeks.

 

 

The more I've had time to think on it, the more Rising feels superfluous. It's an early draft of the Heresy, a vision of an Imperium that we never see again anywhere. Not just because 'everything suddenly goes to bits' - it was never true. We see a spreading griminess in Rising, Horus bemoaning the imposition of heavier and heavier tithes, Karkasy and Loken gazing at their navels regarding aggressive propaganda that will change worlds over time, but it's all foreshadowing. Not of 'the bloodiest and most oppressive regime imaginable', but 'things aren't so great beneath the surface'. It's a book about an Imperium that's starting to groan under its own weight, not one that already has cyber-cherubs and other common horrors.

 

False Gods is the better starting point for the series now, because Davin SUCKS BUTT. Everything SUCKS BUTT. Here's BUTT HORUS coming to the BUTTWORLD that his BUTT COMMANDER is currently rebelling on due to LACK OF BUTTS. Horus in False Gods is tired and frustrated and beaten down by his time as Warmaster for the regime, he's watching everything he and his men sacrificed for being stomped into the ground by the sheer grinding oppression of the Imperium. This is crucial in this analysis because we don't ever see the Imperium as 'good', nobody talks about keeping it good, it's just less bad than Old Night (which, granted, is a big improvement, but still). There is no 'dream', no 'veneer' - Horus knows what he is, what he's doing and he's just sick of it all. It's Horus at his absolute lowest ebb. Once he's wounded he sits in his deathbed raving to a chronicler about how, GODS, HE WAS STRONG THEN. He doesn't even really struggle against it. He's given up. And the rot is in his Legion, too: the Mournival are hopelessly compromised, Erebus is playing everyone, they just murdered a whole bunch of normal people for the crime of Not Moving Fast Enough. It's all BUTTS and the BUTTMASTER can't or won't do anything about it. He's done.

 

When he's on his vision quest, he's free! He's having a great time, he's unbound, he's happier than we've seen him anywhere else. Yes, he knows he's not actually talking to Sejanus, but he doesn't really care. But when he sees the 'future' and how their sacrifices meant nothing, he gets upset. When he watches his father let he and his brothers be stolen - and live the terrible, miserable lives some of them led - he gets furious. The old, tired warrior finds that he has unexpected allies - ones he doesn't trust, but whose cause he aligns with, for now.

 

False Gods read first positions Horus at his nadir, then has him gain the resolve to fight for humanity by the end. Combine this with the character work done in Dropsite Massacre, and you go in a few books from Horus at his lowest to the Warmaster getting back in the saddle in Galaxy in Flames (with a lot of miscommunication and confusion as the Traitors experience tons of friction) to genuinely forging them into a cohesive fighting force in Dropsite Massacre, with his strength, charisma and leadership all at their peak. If that's our 'opening trilogy', we have Horus as a dark protagonist, a man who must fight former friends and allies who are blinded by the promises of a golden tyrant on Terrra as he seeks to restore the Imperium to what it was truly meant to be... while the evil forces already within his ranks twist that noble goal to their own ends.

 

TL;DR WHERE IS THE PRIMARCH NOVEL YOU HACK FRAUDS

 

I disagree with this, because Horus Rising does something extremely important: showcase the Imperium at the height of its golden age, befire the story of its downfall can really begin.

 

By the time of False Gods, Horus has come to question small parts of the Emperor's Great Work. He's not disloyal, but he is more skeptical and cynic. His downfall, along with the Imperium's, has already begun.

 

We see none of that in Horus Rising. We get to spend a whole book with the Imperium as it once was, as many will come to fight and die for the mere memory of. With its problems, sure, but almost innocent by comparaison.

 

In the words of Black Book 1:

[darkhorse0607]

48 minutes ago, The Scorpion said:

 

I disagree with this, because Horus Rising does something extremely important: showcase the Imperium at the height of its golden age

 

 

Does it though?

 

While I'm not firmly anti-Horus Rising (although my perspective has shifted now that the series is over and I've re-read it a few times), I think someone could fairly easily make the argument that while Horus Rising is a good intro to the initial trilogy, it's not a great introduction to the Imperium at the height of it's power or the rest of the series (in it's entirety, sure the Sons of Horus are central, but it does nothing to set up what eventually become crucial elements of the series). 

 

I say this for a few reasons

 

-Only being in the 63rd Expeditionary Fleet already skews it a bit because it's the foremost (according to Abnett) fleet of the most elite (again, according to Abnett) and well supplied legion in the Imperium. You aren't seeing the political or supply issues that plagued some, you aren't seeing the brutal campaigns that took place at that point and prior (hello Iron Warriors or the Battle of Gate 42) where the Imperium took beatings, you aren't even seeing the High Lords which supposedly have caused so much resentment from the Astartes. The list goes on. You aren't seeing the Imperium, you're seeing a special part of the Imperium.

 

-You don't see the Imperium at the height of it's power. One argument I've made before, and while I am not firmly "this is my hill that I'll die on," is that if you truly wanted to show the Imperium at it's height, then the series should've started at Ullanor. Do a book covering the Great Crusade's greatest triumph, with multiple legions, the Emperor/Talons, Mechanicum, etc, all working in concert, then have it all go downhill. As it stands in Horus Rising, you get a few battles, none of which are particularly tough for the Imperium or showcase it's might, and more so than that, none of which you spend time with. 63-19 is over fairly quickly, Murder doesn't showcase a lot and you have to wait for Sangiunius' primarch novel to actually get a display of the Imperium's power with multiple legions, etc.  Instead of showing the Imperium at it's power peak, you get told about it afterwards.

 

-It doesn't allow you to actually sit with many of it's more important things. Arguably, you could say that the discussions between Sindermann/Loken or Sindermann's lecture to the Remembrancers and the diplomacy with the Interex are the more crucial parts of the book for representing the Imperium's core values (or at least what they say they are). Sindermann's lecture about how great it is that the Imperium threw off religion and no longer believes in demons is almost immediately undercut by the first of many Samus apperances, and the diplomacy is, again, almost immediately undercut by Erebus doing his thing. The book never actually allows you to sit and become accustomed to the values that it's supposed to be saying are intrinsic to the Imperium as a whole
 

Now I agree that it's kind of harder to just jump into False Gods and that it'll be missing a bit, but I do agree with @wecanhaveallthree in that Horus Rising as an introduction to the setting hasn't particularly aged well, given what we know now. If you look at it solely in terms of the initial three books, sure, it's fine, or even at the time of release, I understand why it was/is as popular as it was, but now that everything is said and done, I don't think it's aged well given it's goals. 

[The Scorpion]

Since everyone seems to want Necromancy back, I'm going to start using this thread like I used necromancy: to post reviews of old works

 

Might as well, since I'm currently reading "Architect of Fate", which is like a proto-version of the anthologies that we have now: written by various authors, but themed around Kairos Fateweaver

 

I like that the first story is more like proto-horror than anything else, with a boarding team of lesser known chapters escorting an inquisitor into the heart of a creepy desolate demon ship

Edited July 13 by The Scorpion

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I remember reading that. Very cool. A shame we haven't really had much more of Kairos.

[DukeLeto69]

On 7/5/2026 at 9:12 PM, darkhorse0607 said:

 

Does it though?

 

While I'm not firmly anti-Horus Rising (although my perspective has shifted now that the series is over and I've re-read it a few times), I think someone could fairly easily make the argument that while Horus Rising is a good intro to the initial trilogy, it's not a great introduction to the Imperium at the height of it's power or the rest of the series (in it's entirety, sure the Sons of Horus are central, but it does nothing to set up what eventually become crucial elements of the series). 

 

I say this for a few reasons

 

-Only being in the 63rd Expeditionary Fleet already skews it a bit because it's the foremost (according to Abnett) fleet of the most elite (again, according to Abnett) and well supplied legion in the Imperium. You aren't seeing the political or supply issues that plagued some, you aren't seeing the brutal campaigns that took place at that point and prior (hello Iron Warriors or the Battle of Gate 42) where the Imperium took beatings, you aren't even seeing the High Lords which supposedly have caused so much resentment from the Astartes. The list goes on. You aren't seeing the Imperium, you're seeing a special part of the Imperium.

 

-You don't see the Imperium at the height of it's power. One argument I've made before, and while I am not firmly "this is my hill that I'll die on," is that if you truly wanted to show the Imperium at it's height, then the series should've started at Ullanor. Do a book covering the Great Crusade's greatest triumph, with multiple legions, the Emperor/Talons, Mechanicum, etc, all working in concert, then have it all go downhill. As it stands in Horus Rising, you get a few battles, none of which are particularly tough for the Imperium or showcase it's might, and more so than that, none of which you spend time with. 63-19 is over fairly quickly, Murder doesn't showcase a lot and you have to wait for Sangiunius' primarch novel to actually get a display of the Imperium's power with multiple legions, etc.  Instead of showing the Imperium at it's power peak, you get told about it afterwards.

 

-It doesn't allow you to actually sit with many of it's more important things. Arguably, you could say that the discussions between Sindermann/Loken or Sindermann's lecture to the Remembrancers and the diplomacy with the Interex are the more crucial parts of the book for representing the Imperium's core values (or at least what they say they are). Sindermann's lecture about how great it is that the Imperium threw off religion and no longer believes in demons is almost immediately undercut by the first of many Samus apperances, and the diplomacy is, again, almost immediately undercut by Erebus doing his thing. The book never actually allows you to sit and become accustomed to the values that it's supposed to be saying are intrinsic to the Imperium as a whole
 

Now I agree that it's kind of harder to just jump into False Gods and that it'll be missing a bit, but I do agree with @wecanhaveallthree in that Horus Rising as an introduction to the setting hasn't particularly aged well, given what we know now. If you look at it solely in terms of the initial three books, sure, it's fine, or even at the time of release, I understand why it was/is as popular as it was, but now that everything is said and done, I don't think it's aged well given it's goals. 

I know you know but just to add to this discussion…

 

Originally the HH series was conceived as maybe 9 to 12 books. The opening trilogy was Act 1. I think in the context of a series on that scale Horus Rising works very well. It also set a different tone to W40k. It is a shame other writers could no maintain that different style as soon the HH books were just like 40k books.

 

Clearly once the series bloated into the behemoth it became, a 3 novel opening Act was inadequate. Had the series been planned as a 60+ book series from day one, then that opening salvo would inevitably looked different and taken longer.  Act 1 would arguably have panned out over maybe 10-15 books. You only need to look at how Isstvan was skirted over to see how the approach changed as the series went on.

 

So I think you need to judge something by the context of the time and plans at that time. 
 

BL had the opportunity to address the imbalance with The Primarch series as Act 1 and The Siege of Terra series as Act 3. But they fluffed The Primarch series which SHOULD have been purely focused on the discovery of the primarchs and actions during The Great Crusade to set up and explain/foreshadow whether they would be loyalists or traitors. If they had done that then Horus Rising becomes “merely” the first book in Act 2 (sort of).

Edited July 14 by DukeLeto69

[darkhorse0607]

8 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

I know you know but just to add to this discussion…

 

Originally the HH series was conceived as maybe 9 to 12 books. The opening trilogy was Act 1. I think in the context of a series on that scale Horus Rising works very well. It also set a different tone to W40k. It is a shame other writers could no maintain that different style as soon the HH books were just like 40k books.

 

Clearly once the series bloated into the behemoth it became, a 3 novel opening Act was inadequate. Had the series been planned as a 60+ book series from day one, then that opening salvo would inevitably looked different and taken longer.  Act 1 would arguably have panned out over maybe 10-15 books. You only need to look at how Isstvan was skirted over to see how the approach changed as the series went on.

 

So I think you need to judge something by the context of the time and plans at that time. 
 

BL had the opportunity to address the imbalance with The Primarch series as Act 1 and The Siege of Terra series as Act 3. But they fluffed The Primarch series which SHOULD have been purely focused on the discovery of the primarchs and actions during The Great Crusade to set up and explain/foreshadow whether they would be loyalists or traitors. If they had done that then Horus Rising becomes “merely” the first book in Act 2 (sort of).

 

So, up front, I do agree with the points you made, they're valid and I am not trying to argue them when taken from one side (the side of what actually happened)

 

That all being said, I am approaching this more from the perspective of how does it do as an introduction now that the series is done (tentatively. maybe.) for someone that is new to the setting. That is how it's pitched to folks when they look at Warhammer.com, it's how it's pitched on independent book sites, and it is how it's pitched when you walk into a Games Workshop. 

 

From the lens of what actually happened, with the unintended bloat as you mentioned, I do think you're right and it should get a bit more credit on my end. 

 

If we are looking at how it is being pitched by the company now, as the official introduction to the Heresy, I do think my points still stand. They don't have an intro to the Heresy book, they don't have other source material other than maybe the 3rd Ed rulebook, they don't even have visions of Heresy. Whether intended or not, Horus Rising is the intended introduction to the 30k setting as a whole 

Edited July 14 by darkhorse0607

[DukeLeto69]

26 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

So, up front, I do agree with the points you made, they're valid and I am not trying to argue them when taken from one side (the side of what actually happened)

 

That all being said, I am approaching this more from the perspective of how does it do as an introduction now that the series is done (tentatively. maybe.) for someone that is new to the setting. That is how it's pitched to folks when they look at Warhammer.com, it's how it's pitched on independent book sites, and it is how it's pitched when you walk into a Games Workshop. 

 

From the lens of what actually happened, with the unintended bloat as you mentioned, I do think you're right and it should get a bit more credit on my end. 

 

If we are looking at how it is being pitched by the company now, as the official introduction to the Heresy, I do think my points still stand. They don't have an intro to the Heresy book, they don't have other source material other than maybe the 3rd Ed rulebook, they don't even have visions of Heresy. Whether intended or not, Horus Rising is the intended introduction to the 30k setting as a whole 

We probably need Horus Rising the Director’s Cut or like LotR the Extended Edition ha ha.

 

For symmetry (I like symmetry and elliptical narratives etc) Abnett should go back and rewrite Horus Rising as three big door stopper books to match tEatD… only kidding, I think that would kill a few of us! 
 

Edit: Although actually they COULD do another (8 books we promise) mini series like The Siege of Terra but at the start called The Great Crusade that ends with Ullanor. Then the HH becomes Act 2 sandwiched in the middle hmmmmm!

Edited July 14 by DukeLeto69

[Roomsky]

24 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

We probably need Horus Rising the Director’s Cut or like LotR the Extended Edition ha ha.

 

For symmetry (I like symmetry and elliptical narratives etc) Abnett should go back and rewrite Horus Rising as three big door stopper books to match tEatD… only kidding, I think that would kill a few of us! 
 

Edit: Although actually they COULD do another (8 books we promise) mini series like The Siege of Terra but at the start called The Great Crusade that ends with Ullanor. Then the HH becomes Act 2 sandwiched in the middle hmmmmm!

Horus Rising (Director's Cut) parts 1, 2, and 3 would be absolutely shameless.

I'd buy it.

(Heresy'd still have been better if 1 author tackled the whole thing.)

[DukeLeto69]

47 minutes ago, Roomsky said:

Horus Rising (Director's Cut) parts 1, 2, and 3 would be absolutely shameless.

I'd buy it.

(Heresy'd still have been better if 1 author tackled the whole thing.)

Agreed. Imagine if that had been ADB! We’d have got at least four books by now!!!

 

Joking aside, the HH series should have had a spine, a critical path if you like, taking the story from Ullanor to the Horus/Emp showdown all written by one author (ahem Abnett ahem). Perhaps 12 novels.

 

And then other authors could pick up other events with standalone books, trilogies etc. The HH then becomes a setting that can expand as much as BL and fans want, but the core story is told coherently.

Edited July 14 by DukeLeto69

[darkhorse0607]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

We probably need Horus Rising the Director’s Cut or like LotR the Extended Edition ha ha.

 

 

I had typed out a sentence about getting a Horus Rising Annotated Edition with extra details before backspacing it out of existence because I didn't want to jinx it (although we all know we are only a few years away from another special edition)

 

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Edit: Although actually they COULD do another (8 books we promise) mini series like The Siege of Terra but at the start called The Great Crusade that ends with Ullanor. Then the HH becomes Act 2 sandwiched in the middle hmmmmm!

 

I honestly think something like this would be the best way of going about it. 

 

Get someone like Rath or Wraight who is good about broad picture stuff while still maintaining a narrative focus to write something that hits Ullanor for the multiple factions and viewpoints, the High Lords/politics, and ends with the Emperor leaving and the legions/Horus taking over the Crusade. Bill it as the foundational Heresy prequel/entry point and it'll sell

Edited July 14 by darkhorse0607