What are Space Marines - to you?

[The Lost Son]

So whilst trying to decide upon a Chapter (suggestions are welcome) to build and paint a few thoughts have been going through my head and I wondered what other people's take would be. 

Obviously I would assume this being the BnC that the majority of use are aware of what a Space Marine is in broad strokes, but it's their ever evolving origins and archetypes that's currently got me thinking. 

 

General vibes:

At the core the Adeptus Astartes are gen hanced trans humans. Taller, stronger, made for war and generally better than anything else that humanity possess (excluding Custodes, Mechanicum, actually this list is pretty long now that the background is more fleshed out than when I started in 3rd). 

But....... 

Are they knights, brain washed child soldiers, beacons of the imperial faith or something else. 

This is what's been ticking away in my skull for a while now and whilst some chapters are very much in one camp or another I feel at best it's a bit muddy. Personally I'm currently leaning more towards knights in space, but not in the sense of shining steel and fair deeds more that the codex is their chivalric code. It's always?(as far as I remember but please correct if not) that the main purpose of the codex is to blunt the effectiveness of Astartes in centralised command. I'd also image there's a fair few chapters in it regarding not murdering everyone because you had a bad day in the battle barge. I think what my interpretation of this archetype boils down to is that they aren't hero's in any sense other than accidental, they are only lauded and glamorised by the Imperium because it doesn't seem them up close and in action. Yes they serve the purpose of their creation but it's far more destructive and alien than humanity would really understand, luckily the galaxy's a pretty messed up place so these beasts have a purpose that keeps them busy and mainly stops and grander designs if they chose to look back towards the empire. 

 

So that's pretty much my current take would love to hear how anyone else sees it.

[Adeptekon]

They're Space Crusaders to me. Not sure about a few chapters on mental health being in the codex astartes, but pretty much all of the former legions either do what want or need because the Imperium is always at war, so there's always an excuse for an exception to the rule. Guilliman of all people could probably muster 10k in marine forces  when you include successors and serfs, not including the Imperial ones he commands.

[Mazer Rackham]

11 hours ago, The Lost Son said:

Are they knights, brain washed child soldiers, beacons of the imperial faith or something else. 

 

This is what's been ticking away in my skull for a while now and whilst some chapters are very much in one camp or another I feel at best it's a bit muddy.

 

Personally I'm currently leaning more towards knights in space, but not in the sense of shining steel and fair deeds more that the codex is their chivalric code.

 

Well now, that there is an interesting observation - the chivalric code has, itself, gone through many iterations. In the earliest days, Chivalry merely meant doing what your lord commanded, and if burning women and children who're huddled in the local church, then you do it, or be called an oath-breaker and get beheaded or something.

 

Chivalry then evolved from the brutalism to a simplified battle-etiquette, which laid foundations for honourable combat and preventing setting fire to churches full of villagers.

 

Later, in the 18th and 19th centuries, this was romanticised to include flowers and throwing your underpants into a puddle to stop a lady being splashed, being nice to folks, and asking a man if he was alright after you'd shot him over calling his wife a bad cook.

 

So,I think you're onto something.

 

11 hours ago, The Lost Son said:

It's always?(as far as I remember but please correct if not) that the main purpose of the codex is to blunt the effectiveness of Astartes in centralised command.

 

Yes. It's designed to match the old British and later American naval strategies of two-to-one. If there are 1,000 Chapters of Space Marines, all lead by a different person, if a couple go rogue, there will be at least two Chapters to each traitor in order to deal with it - and those Chapters have exactly what the Traitors have, and can meet them on an equal footing. Being that a SM Chapter is the pinnacle armed force (bar maybe the dedicated ships of the line in the Imperial Navy) if Guard go rogue, any Chapter can deal with them quite effectivelty.

 

One Thousand Marines can be stopped by two-thousand.

 

One-hundred thousand Marines, with integrated Imperial Guard and Naval assets is a completely different proposition.

 

11 hours ago, The Lost Son said:

I'd also image there's a fair few chapters in it regarding not murdering everyone because you had a bad day in the battle barge. I think what my interpretation of this archetype boils down to is that they aren't hero's in any sense other than accidental, they are only lauded and glamorised by the Imperium because it doesn't seem them up close and in action.

 

Accidental, I might disagree with, co-incidental I think would be closer to where I stand. If an invasion of Orks happens, yes, they all get killed, the planet is 'saved' but it's also razed to the ground in the process, but hey, there's no Orks left, so it's a heroic major victory if there's no greenskin jackanapes to commplain, right? Oh, and some humans fought bravely but all got killed, but they died nobly, so that's awesome.

 

The Angels of Death have defended the Imperium once more!

 

11 hours ago, The Lost Son said:

Yes they serve the purpose of their creation but it's far more destructive and alien than humanity would really understand, luckily the galaxy's a pretty messed up place so these beasts have a purpose that keeps them busy and mainly stops and grander designs if they chose to look back towards the empire. 

 

There's a saying, which I will no doubt butcher, but it goes something like this:

 

'Hail the mighty heroes of our nation!'

'Pity the nation that needs them.'

 

11 hours ago, The Lost Son said:

So that's pretty much my current take would love to hear how anyone else sees it.

 

I think your take is pretty on my money too, TBF. :)

[Tawnis]

One of the many reasons that there are so many Space Marine chapters is because they can mean so many different things to everyone. The good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between. There are so many flavours of marines, that it's not hard to find a chapter that you gel with. And if you still can't, there's plenty of space in the lore to create your own chapter that fits the exact mold that you like. 

[Galron]

To me they are semi-monastic shock troops. They go in fast, hit hard, and pull out while regular troops push forward to hold the ground just taken. They are the guys who come in in drop pods and gunships, blow up the target with extreme violence, timing and precision. They are the scalpel to the hammer that is the Imperial Guard. They dont have the numbers for long term attrition campaigns. They should be on the outside of any siege, only being on the defense as a "Oh crap, someone screwed up" type of situation(middle finger to the Fists :P).  

[Lathe Biosas]

Space Marines are a combination of every special forces army you can imagine, with enough equipment and grit to get the job done.

 

I see some established Marines as having codes and books of philosophy... but for most chapters, I see them inserting into hell and killing what needs to die, before withdrawing so the regular Army can come in and fight the war.

 

[The Lost Son]

Thanks for replying everyone. I have to say one of my favourite parts of the hobby has always been the ability to form your own takes with the lore and use it to express a multitude of things. 

@Galron the monastic side is an interesting one and I like that as with most things it's presented as a scale. From simple things like the timetable for a Marines day through to the Dark Angels though admittedly I'm unsure if they're as warrior monk as they were. 

 

The small forces always on the attack is a huge part of what a Space Marine is, though the special forces angle is one I'd not really considered. Mainly through having dismissed the Raven Guard and their descendants for a long time I hadn't really thought of it as more than a narrow trope. 

When the heresy series first released I enjoyed the look at Astartes in their prime, as well supplied soldiers and how it highlighted the decline of the Imperium as whole of 40k. However I feel since the success of HH (books) there was a shift to trying to depict legion scale deployments constantly in the modern era but GW has often been loose with numbers and their value. 

[N1SB]

Thanks for this thread.  I've been thinking about this, too.  1st principles, back to fundamentals.

 

The Correct Answer From GW's Perspective

 

21 hours ago, Tawnis said:

One of the many reasons that there are so many Space Marine chapters is because they can mean so many different things to everyone.

 

"Warhammer is drawn from many sources, not just one," was the original 40k writer Rick Priestley's official line.

 

Remember the original Chapters and Legions were more like samples when it started; we were SUPPOSED to all make our own custom Chapters, Ultramarines, both Angels, Space Wolves had existed but were really only "pushed" later on.  If anything, the 1st Chapter to get special rules afaik was the Mentors (Legion they were called back then).

 

But the past doesn't matter as much as GW's ongoing mission, to sell more minis, right?  "You imagine Space Marines THIS way?  Great, buy 1 army of Marines and paint them thus.  Oh, you have a different idea of Marines being THAT way.  Buy ANOTHER Marine army and paint them THAT way."  Then everyone crossed the Primaris Rubicon and had to buy again.

 

Everyone's been agreeable, but in case it comes up, GW's official line would be ALL views are legit, if only for that reason.

 

We Veterans of the Long War

 

 

A modernised version of old 1st ed art from Rogue Trader you know.  RENEGADE Marines, not Chaos or Hereticus, right?

 

When you asked "what are Space Marines to ME", I kinda go back to this image, BUT that is JUST us Veterans of the Long War.

 

It was really Bolter & Chainsword that brought me to the Horus Heresy game.  I had read the early HH novels, knew the Age of Darkness existed, but saw it as a fancier version of 40k with resin miniatures.  It was after 7th ed introduced those big Formation rules that forced you to bulk buy & paint kinda pre-made armies that pushed me to 30k.

 

It was when I was reading the early Black Books for the 1st time with that all that info crystalised into an epiphany...

 

The Great Crusaders

 

On 8/19/2026 at 12:59 PM, Adeptekon said:

They're Space Crusaders to me. Not sure about a few chapters on mental health being in the codex astartes, but pretty much all of the former legions either do what want or need because the Imperium is always at war, so there's always an excuse for an exception to the rule. Guilliman of all people could probably muster 10k in marine forces  when you include successors and serfs, not including the Imperial ones he commands.

 

After the HH novels, particularly Valdor: Birth of the Imperium, I think we all agree Astartes were designed for the Great Crusade.

 

What I said before, rules-wise, 30k Marines were closer to 40k Chaos Space Marines than 40k Loyalists (aside from Black Templars).  They ran 20-man instead of 10-man Squads that can't split into 5-man units or carry a Special Weapon and/or Heavy Weapon.  At THAT time, they were Legionnaires, whereas after the Codex, they DID become Special Forces.

 

Then consider how good Marines are at killing humans like Guardsmen.  The Bolters pierce most Guardmen armour, then their higher Strength and Weapon Skill cut them down in melee.  It's as if they were optimised to kill humans rather than xenos almost!  It's one thing to know, another to feel, and I felt that's EXACTLY what their initial design was for.

 

In 40k, Space Marines ARE humanity's defenders.  In 30k, Legionnaires HAD been humanity's conquerors.

 

I'm so dumb.  For like 5, 6 editions, I thought the Chaos Legions fighting the Imperium were like the opposite of Space Marines, even though the original writers kept reminding us they were the actual "titans of old" that had fought alongside the Emperor.  But Marines conquering human worlds...that's what they were meant for BY DESIGN.

 

Chaos Space Marines are a corruption by Chaos, but they're also the CLASSIC Space Marines, the original, the vintage.

 

Brother Adeptekon is 100% right in invoking Guilliman.  He wrote the Codex Astartes which broke up Legionnaires into Special Forces, and he DID muster not 10k, but tens of thousands of Marines for the Indomitus Crusade, the Unnumbered Sons numbered 20k+ at the end.  Even the guy who broke up the Legions fell back...to commanding a Legion.

 

(It happened in Dark Imperium and it was hilarious, he even had a politically prepared answer when someone asked.)

 

23 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Chivalry then evolved from the brutalism to a simplified battle-etiquette, which laid foundations for honourable combat and preventing setting fire to churches full of villagers.

 

In the HH novels, the "last" Loyalist Luna Wolf doubted this great Imperial project to save humanity by conquering humanity.  He actually turned to the man who would later found the Inquisition for, if not spiritual, then philosophical advice, whom I'll paraphrase, "If you find a panicked drowning child, would you save him as he fought you out of fear?"

 

And in the case of the Great Crusaders, the Marine equivalent of chivalry served their purpose.  They were bringing human worlds into the Imperium, not destroy them.  A sense of honour, but also the livery and pageantry were meant to impress the Imperial Truth upon them to bring them into Imperial Compliance.  If not...the XIIth/World Eaters were there.

 

If you look back at that image above, they've got weird individualised livery.  I might honestly paint up Marines like their Bretonnian Knights of the Old World, each one an individual, and use Black Templar rules.  Man, actually, this is a really good idea, maybe use a combination of Dark Angel and Black Templar models.

 

(You know what'd be hilarious?  If I used epic-scale Marines from Legions Imperialis and glued them on their helmets.)

 

Really good conversation.  I didn't really think this through until you guys raised all those points.  I now know my take.

[Adeptekon]

10 hours ago, N1SB said:

Brother Adeptekon is 100% right in invoking Guilliman.  He wrote the Codex Astartes which broke up Legionnaires into Special Forces, and he DID muster not 10k, but tens of thousands of Marines for the Indomitus Crusade, the Unnumbered Sons numbered 20k+ at the end.  Even the guy who broke up the Legions fell back...to commanding a Legion.

 

(It happened in Dark Imperium and it was hilarious, he even had a politically prepared answer when someone asked.)

This came up in another thread where I was questioned on it. I could only come up with the new 500 worlds campaign at the time, but I couldn't recall where else probably because I slept halfway through Dark Imperium audiobook which started out excellent btw, but as soon as it slowed down I was out like a light, so maybe it was subliminal? 

 

We also will hear time and again the same about the Black Templars. "Oh they only have 6k max" (and that's being generous) and yet only 6k after ten thousand years of crusading, hundreds of thousands of worlds to win back, along with every other xenos empire? I don't think so! We're told only Helbretch knows and I'm sure he's keeping it a secret, that is if he even knows! 

[Evil Eye]

To me, the answer is "it depends on the Chapter". At their baseline a Space Marine is an adolescent boy twisted by horrific science into a post-human living weapon, a necessary atrocity to defend the Imperium against the myriad threats that would see its people enslaved or butchered. But beyond that, it is the culture of the individual Chapter that moulds an Astartes. Hence on one end of the spectrum you have the Salamanders, who are sworn defenders of the common people and do not forget that they took were once human. On the other end you have the Charcarodons, Minotaurs and Marines Malevolent, who have been made into something less than human in service to their craft.

[Helias_Tancred]

Life.

 

[Lathe Biosas]

51 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

Life.

 

 

The cereal, the board game or the Ryan Reynolds horror movie that takes place aboard the International Space Station?

 

[Helias_Tancred]

All of the above!