Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[Laurence]

26 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I think the question is, will this Space Marine Boltgun upgrade affect all Bolt Weapons of other Imperial factions, like those used by Custodes and Sisters (of Battle/of Silence).

In the RPGs, Astartes boltguns are distinct from those useable by regular humans, so there is precedent for the non-Marines keeping S4.

[Lathe Biosas]

9 minutes ago, Laurence said:

In the RPGs, Astartes boltguns are distinct from those useable by regular humans, so there is precedent for the non-Marines keeping S4.

 

I can't imagine that the weapons of the Custodes would somehow be weaker than the less technologically advanced Astartes.

 

Custodes don't even need triggers for their weapons anymore. 

[Laurence]

38 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

 

I can't imagine that the weapons of the Custodes would somehow be weaker than the less technologically advanced Astartes.

 

Custodes don't even need triggers for their weapons anymore. 

They'll be strength 6!!!

[Lord Marshal]

Live now.

 

 

Rough scribing:

• Stats changed because they wanted it closer to the lore.
• 'Real Legends rules' coming for what's currently a Legendary Proxies later.
• Deathwatch PDF supplement will come alongside Codex: Space Marines. Two new Detachments, one which is 3DPP and one which is 1DPP to buff up Deathwatch units in a non-DW Marine army.
• Nothing for non-Marines in terms of Toughness, Eldar speed etc in the interim, but might change when an army's codex happens.
• No Chaos Marine stuff moved to Legends in this update.
• Vague answer about Grey Knights Legends I didn't fully understand, but hint of them 'getting their day in the sun' (4:30 if you want to guess).
• Legendary Proxy rules tell you to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt with stuff like sizes compared to what they're proxying.
• Confirmed the Marine update includes DG, TS, EC and WEs - not just CSM.
• Firstborn still exist in the lore and "there might still be whole chapters out there who've never even heard of the Indomitus Crusade"
• Jokey vague answer about a 'full' plastic Thunderhawk
• Sternguard pick a profile and the whole squad shoots with the same profile (anti-tank, anti-infantry, etc)
• Curze is dead and not a Loyalist.
• Baal Predator isn't moving to Legends 'with this update'.
• Reiterate the core rules cover mixed-Toughness units for things like Crusader Squads.
• Supplement units will be free on the app, but you'll need the code for the core C:SM units like Intercessors etc.
• In an average 2000pt game your armies will be a 'little smaller'. Vehicles about where they used to be, infantry 'went up a little bit'. 
• Captain Power Sword went up to Strength 6. Some power weapons weapons are S5, some are S6 (Master Crafted was given as the example).
• Bjorn not moving to Legends.
• Rhino carrying capacity is 12.
• No heavy/special weapons for Intercessors outside of grenade launcher and sergeant options. Tactical Squads will get theirs back when their proper Legends rules are written.
• The writers know about the changes and so did the Ork codex writers. Mention there's close-team playtesters and external ones.
• Yes the intention is to make Marines more elite.
• Pedro is still alive in the lore. Pedro and Lukas might get new models eventually.
• Pre-order 'later this month'. 

Edited yesterday at 06:29 PM by Lord Marshal

[HeadlessCross]

A 1DP detachment to bring in Deathwatch units sounds good to me. 

[ShibeKing]

I feel like they included a lot of questions that sort of just wasted our time. Like they included variations of the same question they already answered.

[Mogger351]

Somewhat grimly, npc factions are absolutely npc factions by design and have to suck it up now. Nice.

[jaxom]

My big take away from this is expect to see similar changes in breadth for Chaos SM, Grey Knights, and Custodes when they get new codexes. Other factions will probably see changes to specific units and weapons, but not the sweeping changes we see in C:SM.

[Focslain]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Somewhat grimly, npc factions are absolutely npc factions by design and have to suck it up now. Nice.

Honestly other factions will just have to focus down harder on the fewer units SMs will have on the field now. Basically kind of like how we have to treat Custodes. 

[Mogger351]

1 minute ago, Focslain said:

Honestly other factions will just have to focus down harder on the fewer units SMs will have on the field now. Basically kind of like how we have to treat Custodes. 

It'll just be miserable to play. I enjoy when asked if weapons would be adjusted to compensate for the toughness changes it was "No, it would remove the purpose. But marine killer units might get a look in on book release". So we'll be reduced to spamming specific options, which will then get price hiked to oblivion because they get locked into being necessary.

[Focslain]

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It'll just be miserable to play. I enjoy when asked if weapons would be adjusted to compensate for the toughness changes it was "No, it would remove the purpose. But marine killer units might get a look in on book release". So we'll be reduced to spamming specific options, which will then get price hiked to oblivion because they get locked into being necessary.

There is a difference between a unit being too good and being necessary. So let's see if the rules team can tell the difference. Till then time to pull out the anti-DG tactics for basic marines now. 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Happy that Bjorn and Baal Predator are sticking around. Thank you for the notes Lord Marshall. 

[Osteoclast]

That video was definitely a waste of time.

[Mogger351]

6 minutes ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

Happy that Bjorn and Baal Predator are sticking around. Thank you for the notes Lord Marshall. 

They are not being removed "with this update". The carrot dangling will continue.

[mecanojavi99]

The only really meaty stuff we got from this was that the units being proxied will also get legend rules.

 

Can you imagine if GW manages to make Suppressors good now that they will be legends? Oh the irony.

[jaxom]

5 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

They are not being removed "with this update". The carrot dangling will continue.

Yeah, I expect Baal to get Legend rules or Legendary Proxy [Reaper Valiant] rules when Blood Angels get their book.

 

Bjorn I could see going either way depending on Project Management.

[Focslain]

6 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Yeah, I expect Baal to get Legend rules or Legendary Proxy [Reaper Valiant] rules when Blood Angels get their book.

 

Bjorn I could see going either way depending on Project Management.

The Baal has meh staying power. Just need to be able to replace the Gladiator Reapers bolters with flamers and you effectively have the Baal. 

 

Bjorn is a special character, so as long as they make the model his good. Worst case they Yarrick him for a bit until he gets a new chassis. 

 

I can see the GK getting access to the Redemptor chassis on their update.

Edited yesterday at 07:19 PM by Focslain

[mecanojavi99]

4 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Yeah, I expect Baal to get Legend rules or Legendary Proxy [Reaper Valiant] rules when Blood Angels get their book.

 

Bjorn I could see going either way depending on Project Management.

Didn't Valrak talked about Bjorn getting a new model?

[Gree]

Part of Bjorn's problem is that Primaris Dreadnoughts just burn through pilots as batteries. It's grimdark, but it also limits storytelling. One can't really do the whole ''legendary hero from millennia ago'' when they'll burn out in a few years. They can't just put Bjorn into a Redemptor chassis like how Calgar can cross the Rubicon Primaris. Bjorn's whole thing is being the oldest loyalist Dreadnought, the grumpy old vet from a bygone era.

 

One could just remove Bjorn from the Space Wolves, but that feels wrong, like getting rid of Khârn or Mephiston. Too iconic and beloved a character.

[StrangerOrders]

17 minutes ago, Gree said:

Part of Bjorn's problem is that Primaris Dreadnoughts just burn through pilots as batteries. It's grimdark, but it also limits storytelling. One can't really do the whole ''legendary hero from millennia ago'' when they'll burn out in a few years. They can't just put Bjorn into a Redemptor chassis like how Calgar can cross the Rubicon Primaris. Bjorn's whole thing is being the oldest loyalist Dreadnought, the grumpy old vet from a bygone era.

 

One could just remove Bjorn from the Space Wolves, but that feels wrong, like getting rid of Khârn or Mephiston. Too iconic and beloved a character.

Keep in mind it used to be the same thing with Primaris and Firstborn tech being designed not to interact. Which irl was to justify all new stuff and insetting was a mix of Cawl being petulant and the objective fact he had bulk supplies (rather than actual ability).

 

It might well be that the SWs or GMan can just harass Cawl to modify it or threaten him with being forced to listen to Martian politics for three hours.

 

IRL it can be handwaved and insetting we have no idea to what degree it is just it did not occur to Cawl to not prioritize the gear over the pilot (this is a Martian born during the Crusade + a horde of nutjobs, little ethics or grasp of valuable people as a concept to begin with).

 

That is if he didn't just make a subpattern of Redemptors for actually valuable pilots which ends up getting rolled out as the new Venerable kit, and we have just been seeing 'expendable' patterns so far designed to make use out of the plentiful (but individually not very experienced) Primaris legions (its not like Cawl knew if Guilliman planned to keep Greyshields going, split them into chapters or just roll them out as a blob). 

Edited yesterday at 07:39 PM by StrangerOrders

[Karhedron]

16 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

Didn't Valrak talked about Bjorn getting a new model?

 

I'm not sure but the most recent rumour engine pic had a bear's head and pelt which may (or may not) be the new Bjorn. The existing one has a bear pelt as a decoration since Bjorn translates as bear in old norse.

[DeadFingers]

19 minutes ago, mecanojavi99 said:

Didn't Valrak talked about Bjorn getting a new model?

As speculation on his part, not actual rumours, as far as I know.

[MoriyaSchism]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

• Nothing for non-Marines in terms of Toughness, Eldar speed etc in the interim, but might change when an army's codex happens.

How is this even a real game at this point? Don't they have the technology to release a PDF or update the app? Would Eldar being a bit faster and some of their guns hitting a bit harder ruin the surprise that's coming up in god knows how many months? Do Codex sales depend on this? 

[jaxom]

36 minutes ago, Focslain said:

I can see the GK getting access to the Redemptor chassis on their update.

My useless hope is any GK refresh is treated like the  Chaos Cult Legions in relation to Chaos Space Marines. I wouldn’t want Primaris-tech to be the overlap between them, but that’s just me. I just want GK players to be happy when the time comes.

[MoriyaSchism]

47 minutes ago, Focslain said:

I can see the GK getting access to the Redemptor chassis on their update.

A new Mark IV Castraferrum plastic kit would be even better. Maybe they could even sell it in one of those new double logo boxes like the Custodes.