More Space marine units going to Legends

[Plaguecaster]

Ah yes we at GW have to remove entire "units some of which have been the face of the army like rhino variants and tactical squad because space Marines are too bloated due to all the primaris model but on completely different note here's another generic captain model this time on a bike because marines clearly do not have enough character models" what a joke 

 

I'm gonna be really angry if the chaos legions are now gonna lose all their rhino variants as well 

[Marshal Mittens]

It just feels so wild, so many of these kits are not old. I still have unbuilt supressors and the hammer fall bunker is only a couple of editions old. I am honestly suprised to see so much new stuff. 

[mel_danes]

I'm sorry brothers.

The Marine flyers being sent behind the Legends woodshed is my fault. 

To clear my Marine backlog I finished both an Interceptor and Raven this summer.

Now both gone. 

Edited 20 hours ago by mel_danes

[Lathe Biosas]

3 minutes ago, mel_danes said:

I'm sorry brothers.

The Marine flyers being sent behind the Legends woodshed is my fault. 

To clear my Marine backlog I finished both an Interceptor and Raven this summer.

Now both gone. 

 

Would you mind painting a bunch Dark Angels character models? Start with Sammael on his jetbike.

[Wormwoods]

7 minutes ago, mel_danes said:

I'm sorry brothers.

The Marine flyers being sent behind the Legends woodshed is my fault. 

To clear my Marine backlog I finished both an Interceptor and Raven this summer.

Now both gone. 

How many primarchs can you paint on short notice?

[Indy Techwisp]

19 minutes ago, Plaguecaster said:

Ah yes we at GW have to remove entire "units some of which have been the face of the army like rhino variants and tactical squad because space Marines are too bloated due to all the primaris model but on completely different note here's another generic captain model this time on a bike because marines clearly do not have enough character models" what a joke

GW brought out replacement units for most of these kits in the initial primaris launch wave, but unlike other Factions having a new kit release to replace an old one, Space Marines kept the old kits around for another NINE YEARS and have only removed them now when the Intercessors released in that initial wave are getting their own refresh because they're almost a decade old.

You've had plenty of time to see this coming and expect it, but seemingly everyone assumed GW would keep these old and honestly barely used kits around in perpetuity for some reason.

 

19 minutes ago, Plaguecaster said:

I'm gonna be really angry if the chaos legions are now gonna lose all their rhino variants as well 

We have confirmation they're not going away with the LSM codex at least.

Hopefully we don't lose them entirely with codexes because the "replacement" Daemon Engine for the tanks has done a very good job ruining the balance for all 5 factions that can take it, getting point hikes, nerfs and actively killing Detachment options in those 5 factions while still being the best option some actually have (and the only option in EC's case, who are back to a state of effectively not having any armour at all).

[Kommisar_K]

5 hours ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

The Suppressors have become the suppressed.

 

Help help! I'm being suppressed!

[Kommisar_K]

6 hours ago, NothingHere said:

The tactical squad isn't even going to legends they are just straight up deleting it. Nothing to even replace it either; Intercessors are as boring as they ever were.

 

Again I wonder, if Tacticals become Intercessor proxies, could Intercessors possibly be getting special weapons in the near future? That would be cool. And yes, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth some thought. 

 

That said if they don't get special weapons at some point I'm gonna be... irked.  

 

"And that will not do."

Edited 19 hours ago by Kommisar_K
Oops, double post :/

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Marshal Mittens said:

It just feels so wild, so many of these kits are not old. I still have unbuilt supressors and the hammer fall bunker is only a couple of editions old. I am honestly suprised to see so much new stuff. 

Suppressors never got an independent release, and hammerfall probably didn’t sell well.

 

1 hour ago, Kommisar_K said:

 

Again I wonder, if Tacticals become Intercessor proxies, could Intercessors possibly be getting special weapons in the near future? That would be cool. And yes, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth some thought. 

 

That said if they don't get special weapons at some point I'm gonna be... irked. 

 

"And that will not do."

I hope so. If they get a special weapon and  keep the AGL, that would be pretty cool

[NothingHere]

6 minutes ago, Kommisar_K said:

 

Again I wonder, if Tacticals become Intercessor proxies, could Intercessors possibly be getting special weapons in the near future? That would be cool. And yes, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth some thought. 

 

That said if they don't get special weapons at some point I'm gonna be... irked.  

 

"And that will not do."

If they aren't being shown, they def didn't add anything really worth while. Insanely weird to just make the same kit with nothing worth buying it for. It looks like it even has less than the armageddon monopose intercessors somehow

[Gree]

Sad to hear it happening, but I knew it was coming. The writing was on the wall for years.

 

End of an era. I've had countless fond memories of the old tactical sprue.

 

As for vehicles, it looks like the basic Rhino and Land Raider will probably be staying for everyone. Emperor's Children debuting with such a meager vehicle pool makes more sense now.

[ThaneOfTas]

1 hour ago, Kommisar_K said:

Again I wonder, if Tacticals become Intercessor proxies, could Intercessors possibly be getting special weapons in the near future? That would be cool. And yes, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth some thought. 

If it were happening they would have already shown it off.

[Kommisar_K]

10 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

If it were happening they would have already shown it off.

Im remaining hopeful for now. The teaser/reveal schedule has been kinda wonky lately, along with what exactly they're willing to show off. I know, special weapons are not likely, but the codex doesn't drop til October so fingers very much crossed.

[Burni]

I’ve liked Primaris since their introduction but the Devastator squad is one of the greatest in all of 40k. I had a box of RTB01 and a single blister of the metal heavy weapons team, and have loved them ever since. 
 

Really sad to see it go without a true replacement.

[Master Sheol]

5 hours ago, Kommisar_K said:

 

Again I wonder, if Tacticals become Intercessor proxies, could Intercessors possibly be getting special weapons in the near future? That would be cool. And yes, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but it's worth some thought. 

 

That said if they don't get special weapons at some point I'm gonna be... irked.  

 

"And that will not do."

They just show the new kit. they are the same with only grenade launcher as always. they are not changing for several editions.

[Master Sheol]

6 hours ago, Plaguecaster said:

Ah yes we at GW have to remove entire "units some of which have been the face of the army like rhino variants and tactical squad because space Marines are too bloated due to all the primaris model but on completely different note here's another generic captain model this time on a bike because marines clearly do not have enough character models" what a joke 

 

I'm gonna be really angry if the chaos legions are now gonna lose all their rhino variants as well 

Do you know that there were never a captain on bike except for some special characters for decades?

[Mogger351]

22 minutes ago, Master Sheol said:

Do you know that there were never a captain on bike except for some special characters for decades?

So this is actually my issue with this editions marine release wave.

 

Thus far there is:

- Intercessors the 2nd

- Captain who is awful close to the 8th ed captain

- Librarian again

- Jump chaplain - scores a point

- Not-Heavy-Intercessor-Eradicators with bolters

- The bigger speeder they replaced the old one with, but smaller

- Jump intercessors with minimal bling

- New bikes, which are the same as the old bikes, but they lean over

- Ancient number 6 I think it is

- Bike captain, aka the minor conversion

 

It's all very bland and uninspired so far. In an editions time if someone asked what was in the launch box, it will be a fuzzy memory and the marine release wave is a bit meh.

 

This is then compounded by some iconic stuff *not* being in the codex any more.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Mogger351

[Griefbringer]

The concecpt of Officially Legendary Proxies sounds curiously amusing to me ("Look, my proxies are officially more legendary than your proxies - says right here").

 

And you are not limited to using the Legendary Proxies at stores, clubs and campaigns - you can also use them at home!

[Master Sheol]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

So this is actually my issue with this editions marine release wave.

 

Thus far there is:

- Intercessors the 2nd

- Captain who is awful close to the 8th ed captain

- Librarian again

- Jump chaplain - scores a point

- Not-Heavy-Intercessor-Eradicators with bolters

- The bigger speeder they replaced the old one with, but smaller

- Jump intercessors with minimal bling

- New bikes, which are the same as the old bikes, but they lean over

- Ancient number 6 I think it is

- Bike captain, aka the minor conversion

 

It's all very bland and uninspired so far. In an editions time if someone asked what was in the launch box, it will be a fuzzy memory and the marine release wave is a bit meh.

 

This is then compounded by some iconic stuff *not* being in the codex any more.

 

Intercessors updated in look and normalized in options... i agree with you... they are just fixing the laziness of original design and craziness of the original loadout
Captain with shield... I agree with you cause the 8th edition one is better looking
Librarian... I agree with you cause we already have one on foot in tacticus and we needed a jump pack/bike/gravis one

Jump chaplain... this is the best one and it's only in armageddon box for now
Eradicator with heavy bolters... i agree they are useless having heavy intercessors and it would be better having them with other heavy weapons (loadouts in the primaris range really need to be rationalized)

The new LS... they are replacing the original two seat LS and now we have two size of a-grav skimmers and it's good but they need to make a multipart one with a better datasheet with basic loadout (like the third edition one) and adding weapons if you want
Vanguard Veterans have not only blign but all also power weapons, storm shields, thunder hammers...
New bikes ahave weapon options now... we were stuck with the monopose ones from 8th edition launch box

Another ancient on foot when we need ancient on bike or in gravis? i agree with you that is useless... lucky enough it is only in armageddon launch box

Bike captain... yes it's "only a conversion" but they needed to make a model cause with the "no model no rules" law they have now it was out from the codex

So it's a mixed bag really with the managing of Proxy and legend to make things even worse...
Only good thing ti that Rhino and LR survived so we can hope we will have not only new ones in 1/2 years but also we can hope for the return of rhino based veichles (it will be in 12th/13th edition though)
the worst part is proxy cause the proxy unit dont have their own datasheet so they are gone forever from shop and rules... We dont have a tactical or devastator datasheet in legends so we can only use them as proxy and we lost the chance to have special and heavy weapons in the batleline (excluding heavy bolter in heavy intercessors) and access to weapons like Plasma cannons, grav cannons and lascannon in infantry units...

 

GW made a mess with the primaris and firtborn lines and now we will face some edtions of units appearing and disappearing until we can only hope they will make a codex that doesnt look it's written by a schizoid person.

I have my ideas to make all decent

1- characters should get all armour options if they stick with this thing that you can only attacha witha  unit of the same armour type (so we need tacticus, gravis, phobos - attach to scouts too-, terminator, bike, jump). it is a HUGE thing to do cause we have a lot of character types: captain, lieutenant, librarian, ancient, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, company champion

2- intercessors can stay with grenade launchers only but we need a better hellblaster unit that includes all the special weapons (plasma, melta, flamers, ecc) similar to special weapons units of HH.hellblasters will be the only name that will merge infernus unit into them. desolator squads must go and better missile launchers should be on eradicators.
3- Heavy intercessors are not so useful, better put all the heavy weapons on eradicators and make them devastator like unit (so the melta version only with multi meltas and melòta rifles go on hellblasters). Agressors and inceptors and supressors are pretty useless and they can go.

4- Invader must go and make a sidecar/trike version of the outrider bike instead with more weapon options too (heavy bolter, multimelta, and so on)

5- LS should start from the basic only one weapon loadout and then he can buy additional weapons (tornado and thpyoon style) and make the LS storm back
6- remake of rhino and LR and most of the rhino based tanks (AA versions are not so good so they can delete them or make a single one istead of two). razorback should have access to more weapon types on its turret. bye to impulsor, gladiator and repulsor

7- some new flyers that don't look like they are from a saturday morning cartoon

8- phobos units normalized around only two units. elimninators with only sniper rifles and 3-6 unit and infiltrator and incursors merged into a single unit with a double profile bolt gun and the paired combat blades from the incursors. reivers are useless and they can go.

9- fire turret can go

10- veteran units (including termies) are good as they are and they can stay all of them

11- all sergeants from all units must have weapon options if the thing is useful for them. hellblasters sergeants with a power weapon can be good. eradicator or eliminator sergeant with power weapon not so much.

12- basically tacticus is the main armour and should cover most of the roles (line infantry, assault infantry, bikers, veichle crew, and so on) gravis should be the heavy weapon platform only, phobos the one for explorers/snipers. omnis can go to hell.

13- all the new weapons with stupid names must go. we need a plasma rifle not a plasma incinerator, a plasma cannon not a macro plòasma incinerator, a assault cannon not a onslaught gatling cannon. this is grimdark not a saturday morning  cartoon.

 

but i am not a game designer so this is only my opinion

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Master Sheol

[Bouargh]

11 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

It has been clear from the moment the image of the first primaris leaked that the old style marines would be done for. It actually took longer than I expected.

 

 

Indeed, but even like that, I can't help feeling like a fistful of nails is driven into my firstborns' coffins every time a SM codex is released... Yet all of that was fully predictible.

 

So what now? As a next step, should I go rogue and pretend these old models of mine follow Astral claws and CSM rules? Or should I complete the transition of these miniatures toward HH?... An opened question I will probably not solve as I still can keep on playing with former Ed rule sets... But HH is a more likely option.

[Mazer Rackham]

14 minutes ago, Griefbringer said:

And you are not limited to using the Legendary Proxies at stores, clubs and campaigns - you can also use them at home!

 

Good old, GW. So thoughtful, so generous. 

 

Here's a little shanty I was moved to write:

 

Herp, derp, herpy-durr;

My 3D Printer go brr, brr, brr;

You can call me a pirate;

But I'll call you a cur;

My 3D printer go brr, brrr, brrrrr..!

 

Yarr! 

Edited 12 hours ago by Mazer Rackham
Yarr!

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Burni said:

I’ve liked Primaris since their introduction but the Devastator squad is one of the greatest in all of 40k. I had a box of RTB01 and a single blister of the metal heavy weapons team, and have loved them ever since. 
 

Really sad to see it go without a true replacement.

 

Yeah, same here. And having to count them as Desolators rather than getting a proper Legends entry is doubly rough. I guess it is because Devastators still filled a couple of valuable niches. The quad Lascannon build in particularly remained viable (even competitive) right up to the end. Now Marines don't have a long-ranged anti-tank option for infantry units. You either have to run Eradicators and get them in close or invest in tanks of your own to kill enemy tanks at a distance.

[Orange Knight]

Legendary proxies is a fate worse than Legends.

It's just the deletion of that unit within the rules of the game.

[Indy Techwisp]

48 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Legendary proxies is a fate worse than Legends.

It's just the deletion of that unit within the rules of the game.

 

While I agree that not actually having a proper Legends datasheet is bad, by making them "Legendary Proxies" instead the models are still usable at official GW tourneys.

 

I expect "make these somehow still usable in official games" was the main driving force behind this decision.

[Orange Knight]

9 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

While I agree that not actually having a proper Legends datasheet is bad, by making them "Legendary Proxies" instead the models are still usable at official GW tourneys.

 

I expect "make these somehow still usable in official games" was the main driving force behind this decision.

 

Yes, but people always had the freedom to use a sensible "counts-as" and many people did this.

But with Legend rules, you still had that distinctive unit as well, even if only in a casual setting.

Take Uriel Ventris and Pedro Kantor - you could always use them as a Marine Captain, but now those distinctive characters are just gone.