I need Help!

[Hear da Lamentation]

Dammit!  I've been trying to build a 2K army for a while now (never played 2K before) - I want to base it round a big group of 10 terminators and I've spent ages painting Arjac so want to use him.

 

I'd seen  Legends of Saga and Song, looked great.  I normally play against monster heavy Nid's armies so Beastslayer was an obvious choice.

 

The all **** broke loose .  Half my fave units disappeared (Predator, Vindicator etc) and LoSaS disappeared before I could even use it!!!

 

I'm trying to figure out all the changes but it's a bit bewildering and I could do with some help.

 

If I understand correctly - at 2k we have 3DPs.  That means we have to have Saga of Great Wolf + either new BeastSlayer or Champions of Fenris?  (Is that right)?

 

It looks like Grimnar is almost a must have now - does that mean I can't use Arjac as well because its just too costly?

How does the "warlord" rule work?  That gives us 1 extra CP per round now (so Bjorn doesnt have that anymore)?  Can you make any character a Warlord?  Grimnar?  Arjac?

Grimnar's Mark can only be used on a SM Captain in Termie armour - so is that another knock against Arjac?

 

I'm not a huge fan of BCs and Wulfen - which seems to be being pushed....

 

I'd love some advice given the Terminator focus I would like on the army - and put me right on anything I have said above which is wrong ....

 

HDL

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Fear not, Arjac is still awesome. Most SM named characters got upgrades (not Ragnar). If you have legends vehicles they will get legends rules and unless you’re playing in a tournament most people are okay with you playing with them. 
 

For detachments you can also use any of the generic marine ones. The terminator detachment is recommended for terminator lists. It gives much of the same utility as saga and song. I’m deciding between Assault Brethren and the terminator detachment. 

 

Logan and captains generate the CP. Any character can be warlord unless you have a character that needs to be warlord. Logan has a great data sheet but isn’t really needed to get the best benefits from Saga of Great Wolf. 

 

*Until we have the codex in hand then these answers might be wrong. 

[Hear da Lamentation]

So I played my first ever 2K game (TiguriusX has been talking me into this for a while now) - it was vs Orks

 

Very enjoyable.  As all have said here, the GH were just brilliant (with Assault Brethren, Tacticus Attack Force and Terminator Storm Force) and upgraded.

Terminator brick was great, but Logan got precision-killed before I could use him.

 

Game was Layout B map - both of us Take and Hold.

 

I won roll and went second, which went well.  I deployed along the line, (TWC and FW on left, Temies on my home base, Lancer to the left of them.  GH on either side of those, eradicators far right behind LOS blocking terrain and second TWC on the right by them.  I  dropped the wolfscouts into the centre objective to tempt him in - then waited for Orks to push forwards and then assaulted with GH and Termies into centre objective (where he has a 20 man group of Boyz and a painboy I think).  On my close right objective I moved the second GH in (20" move, advance and charge was amazing) and the TWC and killed his bikers and stormtroopers.

Turned very quickly into a massive brawl in the centre objective with his Ghazkhal and a bunch of nobz taking out half the termies and Logan.

My attack back took Gaz out and all the nobz.....  (with help of Lancer, Bjorn and eradiators shooting) effectively winning me the game as he had little else left.

(my left hand objective was a "refused flank" where he has put a number of his units against my fenrisian wolves and a unit of TWC.  They survived just long enough for me to wipe his other stuff out).

 

So ... some advice please.

 

Next game is against Nids (different player than normal).

 

He will be playing 2 Norns, Tyranofex, Old One eye + Carnifex , Mawloc, Broodlord + Genestealers and some hyper daptive ravenors.

Playing the same map ...

 

I expect him to Turn 1 -  plonk one Norn in the middle objective, gaining 5+fnp (in addition to 4+ inv) and 15CP.  The other on another objective - and his Tyranofex on the home objective.  

 

If I let that happen, with Take and Hold I am screwed.  I feel I'm forced to go full tilt into his Norn Emmisary on the centre objective or I'm seriously on the back foot.

This will be at least the terminator squad and a unit of GH (maybe even Bjorn too).....

 

 

What's the thoughts?

 

 

One rule question ... is rapid ingress a type of ingress move?  i.e. with Logan can I rapid assault turn 1 in my opponents move?  Im not saying this is a good idea, I just am not sure if it is allowed.

 

Army

 

Logan

10 Termies.  chainfist, SS, 2 x CML

 

Bjorn

 

10 GH, 1pf - RHINO

10 GH, 1 pf - RHINO

 

Gladiator Lancer

 

6 Eradicators (multi melta and meltas)

 

2 x 3 TWC

 

5 fenrisian wolves

 

 5 wolf scouts + hunting wolf

 

 

  

[TiguriusX]

Logan should never get picked off before acting...his terminator brick is an alpha strike unit

 

Keep him in reserves or hide back line then uppy downy him

 

You can come in turn 1 with his special rule...speaking of...

 

Logans rule is for ingress moves in YOUR movement phase...so no it does NOT work for a rapid ingress during opponents turn.

 

As for a norn...Logan and friends will eat it alive with SBs and chainfists (no help needed from anyone else).  Remember to use stratagems for sustain + lethal for shooting and lance in melee.

 

With advance + charge from Logan a norn sitting in the middle should be very easy to reach and kill.

[Hear da Lamentation]

I went second on round 1 and advanced a unit of GH and the termies - and shot the hell out of a massive unit of Boys, Warboss and Painboy - then assaulting them with both.

 

It was completely overkill - I hadn't realised how well the GH would do.  Once they were wiped out he disembarked a load on Nobz, another warboss and Ghazkall and assaulted the termies. Ghazkall precisioned Logan.

 

I played my hand too early with the termies for sure.

 

WIth the reserves or "uppy downy" - I love the idea, but (and I realise you recommended a ven dread ... but I dont have the points) - without that dread, even with +1 to assault and a re-roll it only gives 66% of making an assault - that's nowhere near enough for me to bank on.  (Again ... if I'm missing something, which I probably am, tell me).

 

Would you swop Bjorn for the Ven Dread?  Bjorn's shooting is great and he is so survivable.....

Should I swop an Impulsor (for the Eradicators) for the scouts?

 

I did the maths-hammer with the termies and the norn - it was closer than I thought, even with lethal hits and lance.  The bugger has T11, 2+, 4++ 5+FNP and 16W!

It suggested 23 W though so if we all roll averagely I should do well with just the termies.

 

I'm thinking (if I am right in his tactics) - I go second if I can ... grab the central objective by killing the Norn ...and focus on keeping 3 objectives... ???

 

HDL

[TiguriusX]

7 hours ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

I went second on round 1 and advanced a unit of GH and the termies - and shot the hell out of a massive unit of Boys, Warboss and Painboy - then assaulting them with both.

 

It was completely overkill - I hadn't realised how well the GH would do.  Once they were wiped out he disembarked a load on Nobz, another warboss and Ghazkall and assaulted the termies. Ghazkall precisioned Logan.

 

I played my hand too early with the termies for sure.

 

WIth the reserves or "uppy downy" - I love the idea, but (and I realise you recommended a ven dread ... but I dont have the points) - without that dread, even with +1 to assault and a re-roll it only gives 66% of making an assault - that's nowhere near enough for me to bank on.  (Again ... if I'm missing something, which I probably am, tell me).

 

Would you swop Bjorn for the Ven Dread?  Bjorn's shooting is great and he is so survivable.....

Should I swop an Impulsor (for the Eradicators) for the scouts?

 

I did the maths-hammer with the termies and the norn - it was closer than I thought, even with lethal hits and lance.  The bugger has T11, 2+, 4++ 5+FNP and 16W!

It suggested 23 W though so if we all roll averagely I should do well with just the termies.

 

I'm thinking (if I am right in his tactics) - I go second if I can ... grab the central objective by killing the Norn ...and focus on keeping 3 objectives... ???

 

HDL

 

I hate to say it but yes...bench Bjorn for a venerable Dreadnought

 

The venerable buffs all SW in the area and gives the critical extra +1 to logan out of DS if you need to land a charge (keyword "if").

 

Logan can stay on the board instead of going into reserves.   He can also rapid ingress then advance and shoot/charge if the board allows.  The DS shoot/charge is plan B because it has the most risk (also has great reward if you stick it).

 

It all depends on opponent list and terrain etc.  Logan is extreme tactical flexibility..so use it well. 

 

In my games...if there is 0 danger turn 1 I leave logan on the table near my expansion to threaten anything that gets too aggressive and tries to threaten me.  it is worth 1 cp to do that and scare away anyone who wants to harass my expansion. 

[Hear da Lamentation]

"It's worth 1cp to do that and scare away" - you mean by using Gunship Extraction if they are scared away and then dropping Termies in near Ven Dread for the charge next round?

 

HDL

[TiguriusX]

6 minutes ago, Hear da Lamentation said:

"It's worth 1cp to do that and scare away" - you mean by using Gunship Extraction if they are scared away and then dropping Termies in near Ven Dread for the charge next round?

 

HDL

 

yes...if they stay the hell away from my expansion I can spend 1 cp to uppy logan

 

and he can reposition immediately on my turn (near ven dread is ideal) or wait for a rapid ingress

[Hear da Lamentation]

Great advice as always...

 

I played the game, my second ever 2000 points.

 

I stuck with Bjorn - but am torn because without the additional +1 for ven dread, I can't see me risking deep strike with the Termies without that.

 

Mini Batt-Rep

 

Deployment was long edge, we both were Take and Hold.  My opponent was Tyranids.  From memory he had

Norn Assimilator

Norm Emmissary (one of them had the enhancement to give 4++)

Old One Eye

Carnifex

Tyranofex (long range shooting gun that did d6+6 damage)

Hyperadaptive Ravenors

Von Ryan Leapers

Hormagaunts (led by something I can't remember)

10 Gene stealers led by Broodlord.

Biovore

Exocrene

 

I had

 

Logan

10 Termies.  chainfist, SS, 2 x CML

Bjorn

10 GH, 1pf - RHINO

10 GH, 1 pf - RHINO

Gladiator Lancer

6 Eradicators (multi melta and meltas)

2 x 3 TWC

5 fenrisian wolves

 5 wolf scouts + hunting wolf

 

I positioned 1 unit of GH, TWC and Eradicators on my right flank (near Expansion Objective).  

Termies, Bjorn and Lancer in the middle (home objective) - and a unit of TWC and the Fenrisian Wolves on my left flank.

My aim was to concentrate on grabbing and keeping 3 objectives, while fending off whatever he threw at me from his Expansion Objective.

 

I won roll and started second (I stuck scouts on the top floor of the ruin in the centre objective to try and draw him in .... )

He advanced his Norn Emissary into the middle of the centre objective.  Ran his genestealers up my Right Flank but failed his charge.

His Tyranofex could just see my right flank rhino (my mistake) and blew it up - stopping me charging GH into genestealers.

I advance them to shoot, charged the TWC and shot at long range with eradicators.  Surprisingly after all that, the broodlord survived and took out 2 TWC.

His biovore and exocrine shot at Bjorn taking of 2/3 of hits.  Hormagaunts charged taking out a few more.  Bjorn wiped them out in his counter assault.

 

The termies advanced and charged the Norn ... with due trepidation.  Boy ... was TiguriusX right.  They shot with lethal hits and then charged with lance - and took it out in 1 round ! (it was close tbh).  (T11, 16W, 2+ / 4++ and 5+FNP)

 

Round 2 - he deep struck mawloc into the only area I had left him (good positioning from me) and I took some mortal wounds - but deep struck the Ravenors 8" from my tank (Not good positioning from me).  They made the charge and blew up my Lancer.

Tyranofex advanced to try and get shooting on termies.  He just about made it - only to roll snake eyes!

Remaining shooting from exocrine and biovore (who advanced toward the central objective) blew up Bjorn - then charged temies - killing 3.

He advanced old one eye and carnifex towards central objective.    This was going to be a big fight in the centre ... which is what I was hoping for.

Counterattack from the termies killed both exocine and biovore (I think Logan took one out himself if i remember correctly)

 

My turn .. boyed by how well the termies had done - I took a risk and moved them towards old one eye & carnifex - shot, then charged.  Termies wiped them out with ease!

I then used a CP to do extra consolidate back into centre objective.

TWC and GH (who made their morale check) - took out broodlord.

Eradicators moved to Mawloc and ... eradicated it :)

GH in home objective got out their ride and blew away the ravenors.

Fenrisian wolves advanced on Von Ryans.

 

Round 3.  Not looking good for tyranids.  (I was well ahead with VPs).

Norn advanced, shot and then charged termies ... took out 2 termies and precision killed Logan ...

Von Rians took out fenrisian wolves.

Tyranofex advanced towards the grey hunters and  TWC, shot again but the remaining TWC saved.  Not a good day for him.

 

My eradicators moved forwards and killed Tyranofex ... TWC on left flank killed Von Ryans......  Game Over.

 

 

The chain first terminators against monsters were utterly amazing when given Lance.  Wounding on 2's is crazy :)

 

HDL

[TiguriusX]

you no longer need help battle brother

 

trust in logan and the boys

 

 

[Lathe Biosas]

Good job playing with... who are ypu playing as?... Space... Wolves? Not familiar with them... are they a new Chapter? 

 

Great Job on kicking Tyranid butt!