WHAT IF? The Assassinorum had Marines but raised and trained soley as Assassins

[Bloodwraith]

So fan fiction idea here:

Name: The Red Hand of The Emperor

What if the assassinorum had its own secret detachment of Space Marines. (Not a full chapter more a company or demi-company size).

Purpose: to be a rarely used safety net/assassins to operate against Alpha level threats that would be beyond standard temple assassins. Also used as a safeguard against factions like the Minotaurs, or even Custodes.

Geneseed used: Either Night Lords or Alpha Legion

Training and indoctrination, the same as the varied assassin Temple techniques. Explosive device located in thier brain and chest cavity, placed during their creation. Psycho endoctrination done on scale beyond that done by any other imperial faction.

Deployed in groups of 3-5 with a handler from the assassinorum. Secret existence kept the last 10,000 years from all of the factions and highlords. 

Edited Thursday at 07:36 AM by Bloodwraith

[Griefbringer]

(This thread could do with a more descriptive title; you can change it by editing the original post.)

 

I think the first question here is: what do you mean with Space Marines in this context? Have they been trained like Space Marines? Are they equipped like Space Marines (in ultra-black power armour)? Do they fight like Space Marines?

 

Or are you just essentially thinking of persons who would essentially be assassins (recruited, trained and fighting like assassins), but who in their youth have got the additional bio-engineering works (geneseed and implants - maybe not carapace) that are normally reserved for the Astartes? This would make them bioengineered assassins, not Space Marines. Very big assassins, mind you, which does not help with stealthiness - or in keeping their existence secret from other organisations. And stealthiness is a big part of why assassins are sent into missions (Eversor excepted).

 

Mary Sue warning: I am afraid you are in the process of trying to create characters that are like assassins, but even better! And assassins are really good at what they do already. And as far as literature goes, unbeatable supermen do not make for particularly interesting characters. Rather, what makes for interesting drama may be characters with flaws and limitations, facing tough challenges and having to try to cope with them with the limited resources they have.

 

As regards assassins, they do not need to be able to deal with every threat imaginable - and actually, they should not be able to. Imperium is based on checks and balances between the individual organisations, in an attempt to prevent any single entity to become too strong so. Sometimes the Imperial authorities consider sending in an assassin as the appropriate choice - but at other times they could prefer sending in a company of marines, navy cruiser, a regiment of guardsmen, titan legion etc.

[Bloodwraith]

10 hours ago, Griefbringer said:

(This thread could do with a more descriptive title; you can change it by editing the original post.)

 

I think the first question here is: what do you mean with Space Marines in this context? Have they been trained like Space Marines? Are they equipped like Space Marines (in ultra-black power armour)? Do they fight like Space Marines?

 

Or are you just essentially thinking of persons who would essentially be assassins (recruited, trained and fighting like assassins), but who in their youth have got the additional bio-engineering works (geneseed and implants - maybe not carapace) that are normally reserved for the Astartes? This would make them bioengineered assassins, not Space Marines. Very big assassins, mind you, which does not help with stealthiness - or in keeping their existence secret from other organisations. And stealthiness is a big part of why assassins are sent into missions (Eversor excepted).

 

Mary Sue warning: I am afraid you are in the process of trying to create characters that are like assassins, but even better! And assassins are really good at what they do already. And as far as literature goes, unbeatable supermen do not make for particularly interesting characters. Rather, what makes for interesting drama may be characters with flaws and limitations, facing tough challenges and having to try to cope with them with the limited resources they have.

 

As regards assassins, they do not need to be able to deal with every threat imaginable - and actually, they should not be able to. Imperium is based on checks and balances between the individual organisations, in an attempt to prevent any single entity to become too strong so. Sometimes the Imperial authorities consider sending in an assassin as the appropriate choice - but at other times they could prefer sending in a company of marines, navy cruiser, a regiment of guardsmen, titan legion etc.

The Idea is, the Assassinorum in secrecy developed a "Doomsday/Alpha Level Threat" contingency. In 10000 years these Assassins have been used maybe 10 times aside from that they remain in stasis. These would be youths taken and put through the geneseed transformation process but trained, indoctrinated and controlled to be assassins. There job would not to be that of infiltration per say. These assassins would be sent after threats deemed beyond the levels of a standard temple assassin. They would also have some temple modifications done to them as well. They would never "be marines" in the sense of members of a chapter or trained as space marines. 

 

As far as the "Mary Sue Warning" noted: But, first, this is a simple thought/fluff experiment. Second, no intention of ever trying to make this into something table top represent etc. This is more along the lines of, during the Heresy the Imperium sent numerous assassins after horus and they all failed. These guys would be for a threat of that level. And a one time or once in a mellenia type use weapon. VERY SITUATIONAL and not ever intended for general use. They are not infalable or undefeatable as no marine/character in 40k is. Think of them as a contingency if all else fails, a break glass in case of Armegeddon use. Guilliman turns to chaos...etc.  And when they are done, they go right back into their hidden vault. Perhaps a demi company is to many. Maybe 20-30 tops. technically several Legions during the crusade had units similar to this ie.. Mor Deythan, Headhunters,  Night Raptors, Moritat, and or seeker squads. The difference is these were still marines that had marine training and indoctrination that were then given addition training and skills. But these "marines" would be purpose created and controlled by the assassinorum and have no allegaence or affiliation to the adeptus astartes outside of "their original creation process".

 

I am sure especially given the dark age of technology items the Dark Angels have at their disposal or those contigencies kept hidden by the Custodes in the vaults, there has been something like this done or in existence.

Edited Thursday at 08:04 AM by Bloodwraith

[Griefbringer]

Thanks for the extra information, that actually makes them sound somewhat interesting. Especially the bit about spending their time in the stasis (a bit like Eversors) and being taken out once per thousand years or so.

 

The obvious next question to ask might be: can the Assassinorum temple(s) create more of these geneseed-assassins on their own, without external assistance? Or were they created just for a while in the post-Heresy decades/centuries, after which the initiation programme was discontinued and the knowledge would gradually become lost.

 

As a plot element, I think they become more interesting if the temple(s) are unable to produce more of them (at least not without revealing the secret for outsiders). That would make them a truely limited resource, that would need to be employed sparingly. One could even write a whole story where the temple leadership debates back and forth as to whether the stasis vault should be opened at this instance, digging to old records for reference and guidance (they don't even need to come to a decision by the end). It would provide them also with a bit of character, being ancient remains of the Imperiums past that are only brought out of stasis every thousand years or so to be confronted by strange new people and circumstances. Maybe putting a bit of tragic touch to balance their physical superiority?

[Jings]

I mean, the whole point of the Assassins is to all but guarantee that small groups or individual targets are taken out. Usually using infiltration, subterfuge or other covert style operations. 

 

For a big alpha style target, as you describe, they would just use Astartes if that were suitable. 

 

If it's a question of it being possible, then sure. It's not as if it's unheard of for Astartes to be created using atypical methods or for other purposes (Cursed Founding; Cawl's Marine). 

 

That said, these are highly limited and controversial processes and are highlighted as being exceptions as opposed to rules. 

 

The crux, really, is as Grief pointed out, is the division of power between the institutions is part of the checks and balances that keep the Imperium trudging along. 

 

Beyond the Assassin's already having methods that allow their agents to rival Astartes one-to-one, the Astartes are kept independent for the very purpose of not having them under the direct beck and call of any one institution. The Inquisition have the Deathwatch and Grey Knights as chamber militant, but they too are also independent operators. Similarly, the Minotaurs are all but confirmed to be under the direct command of the High Lords, and as far as I'm aware this arrangement is kept at arms length with deniability in the event it becomes an issue. 

 

Fundamentally, if the Assassinorum were to have a cadre of Astartes-enhanced agents, the consequence of discovery would be an Imperial workplace dispute, which is to say a civil war. The Astartes chapters from which those agents drew their genetic lineage would see it as a personal slight, the Astartes at large would take it as an affront, the Inquisition by and large would see it as a heretical love and the remaining Imperial powers would be furious such an action took place, or jealous that they cannot have Astartes of their own. 

 

It's not so much that it wouldn't be possible. It's that it would be impractical. The Assassins are already a feared faction who's express purpose is to mitigate risk to the Imperium. It would not be pragmatic for them to use Astartes derived agents as it would make them a risk in and of themselves. 

[Griefbringer]

As for the Great Crusade era Astartes examples, it is worth keeping in mind that Seeker squads and Vigilators were essentially tactical battlefield assets, that would try to target enemy commanders (and other similar targets) during a battle in an effort to demoralise and confuse the opponent. Assassins on the other hand are primarily intended to strike at strategic targets, like planetary governors, typically far away from battlefield (or on worlds that are not even at war); acting as tactical support (as they do on typical tabletop game) is very much a secondary role (and possibly indicative that something has gone wrong). Admittedly, some of the Alpha Legion operatives may specialise in assassination and sabotage operations against strategic targets.

 

As for the concept of special assassins (geneseed modified or not) spending very long time in stasis, this has some great drama potential due to disconnect between the special assassins and their masters. To the people in charge, these dwellers of the stasis vaults are mythical beings who have not seen in centuries, and of whom only a few know - to wake them up and lead them into action would be a very special undertaking. Meanwhile, the special assassins themselves would be ancient veterans fighting a "forever war" (*) where they regularly end up waking in an Imperium where centuries have suddenly passed, where they know nobody (except each other), and they are again expected to face some very serious threat to the Imperium. That sounds very mentally stressful, even more than what the regular assassins have to face in their line of duty.

 

Perhaps instead of having special assassins with Astartes-style geneseed modification, perhaps these ancient special assassins could be instead result of some different biological modification programme, using technology that was still available in limited level in the post-Heresy years but has since then been forgotten? This could allow for existence of a limited number of "super assassins" without interfering with the rights of the Astartes - and would allow for a programme of biological modification that would be better aimed at the needs of the Assassinorum itself.

 

(*) In reference to the novel Forever War (1974) by Joe Haldeman, where ancient veterans (aging slowly due to relativistic effects of space travel) have trouble connecting with the changing society on Earth.

[Adeptekon]

Maybe they are actually Alpha Legion.

 

Alpha Legion operatives already infiltrate the Inquisition, and we know some are loyalist. Both the AL loyalists and the Assassinorum do not follow the Imperial Creed so maybe they collaborate, and inline with your idea the operatives may activate the Alpha Legionaries actually in stasis under the Imperial Palace if the Temple Masters request it under dire circumstances.

 

Maybe this pact between the two is how they plan to defend against the Ordo Sicarius should they come to close the Temples (for whatever reason)

[Griefbringer]

Bloodwraith in his original post suggested that the geneseed used for modifying these assassins might have come from Alpha Legion - presumably from samples obtained pre-Heresy and stored somewhere (and somehow obtained by the Assassinorum before they would have been destroyed).

 

Or at least geneseed samples that somebody thought came from Alpha Legion. Considering their nature, I would expect a jar labelled as "Alpha Legion geneseed" to actually contain geneseed from some entirely different legion - or maybe even something more experimental. 

[Adeptekon]

On 11/6/2026 at 5:04 AM, Griefbringer said:

Bloodwraith in his original post suggested that the geneseed used for modifying these assassins might have come from Alpha Legion - presumably from samples obtained pre-Heresy and stored somewhere (and somehow obtained by the Assassinorum before they would have been destroyed).

 

Or at least geneseed samples that somebody thought came from Alpha Legion. Considering their nature, I would expect a jar labelled as "Alpha Legion geneseed" to actually contain geneseed from some entirely different legion - or maybe even something more experimental. 

Yeah I just feel like the lore is already there, and Bloodwraith's idea is still forming up. But if they need to be more accessible than the stock of presumed statis AL under the palace which probably wouldn't get past the Custodes without some universal threat, then yeah. 

 

I think we need to know more about the grand plan for this which I assume there must be or it's adding for the sake of adding imho, but maybe it's too early to reveal. Grabbing the popcorn!