Battle Ethics - Be Proud To Be An Ultramarine

[Brother Tyler]

This thread was originally posted at the B&C when we were on EZBoard, by Scriptor Valorous. All credit goes to the good Scriptor.

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

As an Ultramarines leader it is sometimes very disappointing to read all the cool special rules for other chapters. While new chapters like the Black Templars are created, some of our own characters disappear in oblivion - Brother Helveticus and Chaplain Cassius seem to be just "gone". That is not only not necessary, that is betrayal! However, Ultramarines do not need special rules and they do not need special characters. Thoughts like "I wish I had some troops with rules like the Death Company" might end very soon in "What about painting these newly purchased troops for my Ultramarines force red?". Do resist temptation, do not abandon your Chapter. Support it!

 

We are blue - and this is not accidentaly. Blue is the color of loyalty, fidelity and royalty. We are the Ultramarines, the Emperor's finest. We do not have special rules for a very simple reason: There is no gene-seed abnomination within us, none of us have broken the eternal oath to Him, and last but not least, our Primarch has written the Codex, the base for new chapter organisation and prosperity within the Imperium.

 

The Codex Astartes ARE our special rules. We have access to all equipment which was supposed to be used by Space Marines. As a Ultramarines Leader it is your DUTY to stick as close to this Codex as possible. We do not need Furioso Cybots (Dreadnoughts) because we are wise fighters and rather fight with a plan than with rage only. We do not need a Ravenwing because our reco-missions can be done more effeciently with a combined force of usual tactical and fast attack troops. We do not need any of these because we are Ultramarines. We strength, bravery, loyalty and superiority reincarnate. If we would need any of the above our Primarch would have ruled that a chapter needs it. But he did not. And it is not our place to doubt the Primarch or, in last consequence, Him on earth.

 

We are the Ultramarines, we have stopped a Hive-Fleet on our own. What can be achieved that incorporates more honor?

We are a chapter, not a mob of mindless slaughteres or cold blooded smiths. We are Battle Brothers, soldiers and monks, not sworn in fanatics which have to redeem themselves for treachery. We are pure. Untainted.

 

And therefore our fighting forces have to be a mirror of us:

 

When I set up a fighting force I follow these guidelines.

 

1. SQUAD SIZE

Squads consist out of 5 or ten Marines. Not more, not less. This is absolut Codex basics and is learned by every aspirant in his first lesson. Only one, IF ANY, squad may consist out of 6 - 9 Marines to reflect previous combat loses. Marines from several squads which had sustained loses will always be regrouped after the battle into new codex standart size squads.

 

2. WEAPONS

Terminator squads are now allowed to carry two heavy weapons. Fine for opportunistic leaders, but Ultramarine Terminators have had only one heavy weapon as long as I can remember. Therefore we do not carry two, just one.

 

Scouts are a special unit which is supposed to infiltrate behind enemy lines, operate on its own, destroy enemy infrastructure, delay troops and execute "Terror Tactics" - nothing less than underming the enemys moral with fast and brutal strikes. They are NOT a cheap devastator squad. Scouts DO NOT rely on sniper rifles only because this weapon interferes with their main ability and task: Fast movement and operations. My Scouts do not have more than one, or in extreme cases, two sniper rifles.

 

3. VETERAN SERGEANTS

These fine warriors do not come in 6-packs. It takes long to become a Veteran Sergeant. Therefore they are rare. I allow only one in three Sergeants to be Veteran.

 

4. COMMAND GROUP

Who can have a Crux Terminatus? Veterans. Or better - it is vice versa. With a Crux Terminatus you ARE a veteran. And therefore a Sergeant or a member of the first Company. A Company Captain from Company 2 - 9 would NEVER offend his Battle Brothers from his own Company with chosing a guard from Company 1. Therefore my Command Squad is equipped with Crux terminati ONLY if they accompany the Captain of 1st Company, Calgar or another high ranking officer who is NOT in charge of troops from Company 2 - 10. Those Captains are usually accompanied by Marines from Tactical Squad I who are not veterans (otherwise, like said before, they would be members of Company 1).

 

5. DEVASTATOR SQUADS

I have observed that most Devastator Squads are made of 5 Marines with 4 heavy weapons and a Sergeant. I wonder where the rest (the other 5 Marines) is. Are they on vacation? Hardly. Devastator Squads consist out of 10 Marines, not only 5. Take advantage of Battle Squads. I represent my Devastators with a 5 Marines Heavy weapon squad and an additional 5 Marines Tactical squad. The tactical arm is painted like Devastators but counts for army purpose as a tactical choice. It has no weapon options because it relys on the weapon options of the Devastator Squad. Only one Sergant is allowed to be in both Squads. The other Squad is lead by a Squad leader, a not modified Sergeant which makes him basically to one of the Marines. Painting represents this (e.g. only one red helmet in both squads).

 

Alternativly you could chose two Devastator Squads and only give them 2 heavy weapons each. You are not forced to take 4. Again, only one Sergeant altogether in both Squads. Painting should represent this.

 

Those guidelines do not make your forces stronger. But it makes it COOL! When you can win a battle with a force like this you are a true Blue Warrior. We win with a plan, not with cheating.

 

HAIL TO THE EMPEROR!

 

HimOnEarth

 

I respect your devotion to the codex, but I have to say the codex was written by GW, not Gulliman. So were the game rules. This makes for a very hard time sticking to it (or whatever your interpretation of it might be, anyway) whilst still winning games. The cold fact of the matter is that 10 man squads are not cost-effective enough when compared to a 6 or 7 man squad and that each marine is not adequately represented by his stat line. 10 man squads should be good, massed bolter fire should be devastating, but this doesn't mean it is (and I know I'm going to get loads of people saying "oh, but it is! I once did [something highly improbable] with my bolters which means that they are always good!" but I've heard them before and my opinion didn't change...am I arrogant or did they just not present a good enough argument? You decide, as I know you will).

 

I do like Ultramarines and consider them a fine chapter (and an even finer legion! Those were the days...) but to restrict yourself so much is asking for trouble. Maybe a member of the squad is crewing their rhino, whilst another is gunning on a predator or something: under ideal circumstances, squads are regrouped as close to 10 man as possible, but circumstances are usually far from ideal.

 

Anyway, If you enjoy playing like this, keep at it! It's your choice, after all. I just prefer a little more tactical flexibility, as I feel that this represents the character of the Ultramarines better than haw many men are in a squad. What is more Ultramarine: an adaptable and highly capable force, able to achieve any mission against any foe or a lot of ten man squads who are there simply to be ten man squads like the codex says? That's my take on it anyway.

 

Sorry if I brushed anybody up the wrong way, but hey, my speech is as free as anyone elses, right? Till next time...

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

Actually, I would like to outline some other "self-made" guidelines for my army selection. Although I do not watch them as necessary part of army creation like the ones i outlined above I use them in general as long as I do not deploy with Drop Pods or I am restricted in any other form of scenario limitation.

 

Every Squad has its own transport capacity. It is just ridiculous to think that infantry would not take advantage of APCs in the 40th Millenium. This is the reason why I always have a bad feeling about taking Dreadnoughts, they LOOK so slow in comparison to all the Marines in tanks.

 

In addition I try to rely on Battle Company forces only, e.g. no scouts, no terminators, no heavy support other than Devastators. You might say that this restricts my army very much and hurts. and yes, it does. But it is REALLY cool when you can say: This is 4th Company only.

 

A typical 1500 pts army consists out of:

 

Tactical Squad (10M) with Rhino

Tactical Squad (10M) with Rhino

Tactical Squad (5M) with RB

Devastator Squad (5M) with RB

Bike Squadron (5M) incl. Trike (Attack Bike)

Landspeeder Squadron

Captain

 

This army is really powerful. It may look like like a lame duck, but is all but lame. Tactical troops, when deployed correctly, will achieve every task you designate them to.

 

For tactical aspects: There are two tactics I agree to. One is the SSAdA and the other is the AdSAS tactic. S is standing for supress (basically shoot them to pieces; Ad means advance and A is for Attack). My fundamental believe is that movement and initative are the key to victory. It doesn't matter if you are outnumbered, who you face. Be active, as long as you have the initiative you win. Move and chose your own battleground, make your rules to the rules of battle. Do not defend. When you try to "hold" you have already lost because you expect the other to win. We are Marines, attack is best defence!

 

The Shadow Guard

 

Talk about battle doctrines being similar. I do very similarly, although as you may have seen in another thread I haven't played for almost 12 months. My force basically moves to force the enemy to respond to my maneuvres and I am never reluctant to pull back if necessary.

 

My 1500 point army basically consists of five 6 man squads. Now this may be abhorrent to someone schooled on the Codex Astartes, but it reflects the DA codex better. One squad is a command squad and all others have veteran sergeants with stubborn quality, power weapon and BP. Small squads are tailor made for the DA as with the stubborn upgrade they will never break, hence overcome the main disadvantage of sall squads. All squads are also loaded on razorbacks, which are the squads HW. Therefore all squads can move and fire all their weapons, which keeps in with their fluff on mechanised mobile warfare. The two other units I have are the Whirlwind and the vindicator, the later is soon going to become a sabre (rhino with battlecannon) for stand off firepower.

 

When it goes to 2000 points, in comes my LRC with a 10 man jump pack-less assault squad led by either a chaplain or librarian (whichever takes my fancy) and the command squad apo & tech may join them!

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

Brother Marine, do not understand me wrong! When your forces depoly in 6 men squads it is absolutly ok to me. The codex is written and my personal rule because I decided to paint them blue, those Marines I got centuries ago. I just condemn the abuse of the codex in face of the background. If you create your own background you have my whole heartedly support! I hate the process of thinking which goes like this: "25% of 7 is still below two, therefore it must be 8 so do not need a take a break test with 2 combat loses!". But if you make up your own background it is most honorable whatever you do as long as you have another explanation then pure opportunity to take advantage from.

 

When you create your own chapter it is completly up to you how you balance it.

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

I HAVE to point out again:

 

- Chose the army you like and stick to its background

- Stick to the background of your chapter

- do not abuse the codex (any codex) in favor of "legal" advantage while you know that it is interferring with the background

- build a theme army

- devastate the enemy

- pray to Him, at least three times a day, and you will see you will win

[Drain_Bamage_AA]

Ah, this too is an excellent article (where is Scriptor?, he should already be in the member list by now... :o) I've just read it all over again and I still agree with it's content.

 

I do advise, however, that you (codex marine player) be a little more flexible with your army (make up a fluff excuse, if you deem it necessary) or else you'll be eaten for lunch by other armies who, not being portrayed as organized, have nothing to justify regarding their squad sizes or quantity of weapons or scarcity of ocuppied troop slots.

 

I used to play with 2 or 4 "full" (10 Marines strong) Squads...I got beaten pretty hard... then I changed to 6 squads, 4 are 7-marine strong and 2 are 6-marine strong. The extra heavy/special weaponry and the larger number of targets can truly improve your odds of winning, which still doesn't mean you'll win much more by doing this, but Codex marines are an army that fights for it's victories and, therefore, must be flexible enough to be able to win.

 

I'm not trying to contradict the article above, just pointing out that, sometimes, it is not so wise to not use your own advantages.

 

As a final note: One of two things could be done, either slightly change/add to the fluff so that we don't feel so forced to take an army "by the book". Or, change the army list, so that marines would be forced to take full squads, and allowing for just 1 or perhaps 2 understrenght squads, like IG.

 

Cheers

 

Drain

[INKS]

hmm what a great article :o thanks for sharing this, will have to give it a nice read over.

[KingPerson]

Thats how I do it. Only squads of 10, only Battle Company troops in 1500 point games, full 4th company at 2000 sometimes, and always at 2500.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the poster's unwilling to use dreadnoughts, but I must point out that every company has several dreadnoughts.

[VinnyWelsh]

i remember scriptor off index astartes. this was posted almost a year ago.

 

vinny

[RoQue20]

I believe that Scriptor Valorous is now Librarian Valorous. Please tell me if I'm wrong though.............

[Brother Tyler]

You're right. I haven't seen him here on the new forum, yet, though. IIRC, that was one of Valorous' earliest posts on the old B&C.

[Riklanim]

My way of achieving some manner of flexibility vs. fluff will be to have a second marine in every tac squad painted as a Corporal so that I can split a 10 man squad into two 5 man squads. One will have the Heavy Weapon and the other the Special Weapon (Plasma Gun, etc.). Sounds okay in theory... but even if I never split them, they still follow my chapter's fluff.

[Iron Priest Casq]

Its simple

 

The strenght of the Ultramarines is that they dont have "extra" special rules.

 

This thing works like this.

Small/Big Special Rule > Small/Big Disadvantage

 

Now Ultramarines has only basic special rules so they dont have any real disadvantages like raging devs, or one troop choice with BS4 OR 48pts Terminators. (only the basic marine army disadvantage = outnumbered etc)

 

They dont get much stuff = they dont lose anything.

[deus lo volt]

Hey KingPerson, I am considering trying to field an entire UM battle company. Have you had good experiences with such a troop heavy force. Please let me know before I invest to much time and money into this idea.

 

By the way that is an outstanding article.

[Bartol the Unforgiving]

yup. say it loud and say it proud. the Ultramarines are thuper :blink:

[KingPerson]

deus lo volt,

 

I dont have a lot of experience using the whole company, because we usually play 1500 pts, and its a pain to carry all those models around. I use the standard GW cases, so it takes a lot of them. (dont be fooled, even though they have about 100 slots, you are not going to be carrying 100 models inside, things like banner poles, dreadnoughts, large heroes, etc. (and of course, extra models just for the heck of it)

 

On the battlefield, a company is two things. It is an intimidating force, and its a thing that outnumbers orks and IG.

 

Just think about it, you are a BA player, using that honour guard with full gear. The battle is 2k points, you set up your 30 models, I set up 100 marines plus commanders and tanks. That scares a lot of people, even if I use my normal army, which is about 65 models. (this is at 1500, company is 2000 at the very least, if you want weapons)

 

Then we come to the role that numbers play on the battlefield, not during set up. I think you get the idea about 100 marines shooting you. The full charge is also interesting, 80 marines in close combat (20 devastators shooting), although I have never tried it with 80 marines. (I prefer shooting from a distance)

 

Now come the major problems with making a company. One is of course money, it takes a lot. I have been building this over several years, so I cant say how much, but its a lot I'm sure. The modelling time, if you want it to look good is also tremendous. Most of my space marines are painted rather poorly, except for the ones shot up close. (which is ok painting, but nothing special) If I were to spend as much time on everything as I spent on the last squad, it would have taken me years to paint. You also have to realize that what I have is not an entire company, I lack the 25 bikes, 15 rhinos, 15 land speeders (different types), and other elements.

 

FInally, a company is not necessarily the most point-effecient thing. It is much more of a background army, that actually has some effectiveness, but you can make a more effecient army. I never really had a plan to make a company, but I decided to finish it up and use it when I saw the goal attainable.

 

Thanks for asking, and feel free to email me about this if you have any questions. (atarev@msn.com)

[Altus Imperator]

I'm happy this was put up again. I do wholeheartedly agree with and support Scriptor's ideals, except for when it comes to "termies only having one special weapon" etc. Otherwise I support following the fluff, and using 5/10 man squads. Very good.

[Redrandy93]

Folks,

 

I am new to this and went out and bought a complete company(6 tactical squads, 2 dev squads, 2assault squads) plus scout squad and it has 2 Dreadnaughts, 2 Whirlwinds, 2 Razorbacks, 1 Vindicator, 1 Predator destructor, 1 Land Raider and 1 Land Raider Crusader, a bike squad (unbuilt), 4 Land Speeders (unbuilt). To date I have them lined up on dining room table ready for painting. It looks great but wife is wondering when I will finish them.

I appreciate what many of you write as it helps a newbie like me decide if I will go by the Law in squad composition. I enjoy reading the background of the Ultra Marines. I also have 6 new rhinos and 2 new predators in various stages of construction plus converted one of my old rhinos to a Helios missle rhino. It looks awesome on table just wish I had the time to paint them all! They will be painted 2nd company colors and have 25 or so Terminators for First company and a few brothers from third company.. :blink: I have not played in a league yet but our sons have their armies ready to take out the Ultra Marines.

My problem is command squad makeup and appreciate any comments.

I have all the other figures like our Lord M. Calgar, Marine Captain w Iron halo, Chaplain, Librarian etc.

I apoligize if I have posted in wrong folder.

 

 

RedRandy93

2nd company

Planet ??????

[mauleed]

For those of you who want to see the version of the thread as it appears in the +Frater Archivus+ of the old B&C, click the link.

 

http://pub106.ezboard.com/fthebolterandcha...opicID=12.topic

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

As an Ultramarines leader it is sometimes very disappointing to read all the cool special rules for other chapters. While new chapters like the Black Templars are created, some of our own characters disappear in oblivion - Brother Helveticus and Chaplain Cassius seem to be just "gone". That is not only not necessary, that is betrayal! However, Ultramarines do not need special rules and they do not need special characters. Thoughts like "I wish I had some troops with rules like the Death Company" might end very soon in "What about painting these newly purchased troops for my Ultramarines force red?". Do resist temptation, do not abandon your Chapter. Support it!

 

We are blue - and this is not accidentaly. Blue is the color of loyalty, fidelity and royalty. We are the Ultramarines, the Emperor's finest. We do not have special rules for a very simple reason: There is no gene-seed abnomination within us, none of us have broken the eternal oath to Him, and last but not least, our Primarch has written the Codex, the base for new chapter organisation and prosperity within the Imperium.

 

The Codex Astartes ARE our special rules. We have access to all equipment which was supposed to be used by Space Marines. As a Ultramarines Leader it is your DUTY to stick as close to this Codex as possible. We do not need Furioso Cybots (Dreadnoughts) because we are wise fighters and rather fight with a plan than with rage only. We do not need a Ravenwing because our reco-missions can be done more effeciently with a combined force of usual tactical and fast attack troops. We do not need any of these because we are Ultramarines. We strength, bravery, loyalty and superiority reincarnate. If we would need any of the above our Primarch would have ruled that a chapter needs it. But he did not. And it is not our place to doubt the Primarch or, in last consequence, Him on earth.

 

We are the Ultramarines, we have stopped a Hive-Fleet on our own. What can be achieved that incorporates more honor?

We are a chapter, not a mob of mindless slaughteres or cold blooded smiths. We are Battle Brothers, soldiers and monks, not sworn in fanatics which have to redeem themselves for treachery. We are pure. Untainted.

 

And therefore our fighting forces have to be a mirror of us:

 

When I set up a fighting force I follow these guidelines.

 

1. SQUAD SIZE

Squads consist out of 5 or ten Marines. Not more, not less. This is absolut Codex basics and is learned by every aspirant in his first lesson. Only one, IF ANY, squad may consist out of 6 - 9 Marines to reflect previous combat loses. Marines from several squads which had sustained loses will always be regrouped after the battle into new codex standart size squads.

 

2. WEAPONS

Terminator squads are now allowed to carry two heavy weapons. Fine for opportunistic leaders, but Ultramarine Terminators have had only one heavy weapon as long as I can remember. Therefore we do not carry two, just one.

 

Scouts are a special unit which is supposed to infiltrate behind enemy lines, operate on its own, destroy enemy infrastructure, delay troops and execute "Terror Tactics" - nothing less than underming the enemys moral with fast and brutal strikes. They are NOT a cheap devastator squad. Scouts DO NOT rely on sniper rifles only because this weapon interferes with their main ability and task: Fast movement and operations. My Scouts do not have more than one, or in extreme cases, two sniper rifles.

 

3. VETERAN SERGEANTS

These fine warriors do not come in 6-packs. It takes long to become a Veteran Sergeant. Therefore they are rare. I allow only one in three Sergeants to be Veteran.

 

4. COMMAND GROUP

Who can have a Crux Terminatus? Veterans. Or better - it is vice versa. With a Crux Terminatus you ARE a veteran. And therefore a Sergeant or a member of the first Company. A Company Captain from Company 2 - 9 would NEVER offend his Battle Brothers from his own Company with chosing a guard from Company 1. Therefore my Command Squad is equipped with Crux terminati ONLY if they accompany the Captain of 1st Company, Calgar or another high ranking officer who is NOT in charge of troops from Company 2 - 10. Those Captains are usually accompanied by Marines from Tactical Squad I who are not veterans (otherwise, like said before, they would be members of Company 1).

 

5. DEVASTATOR SQUADS

I have observed that most Devastator Squads are made of 5 Marines with 4 heavy weapons and a Sergeant. I wonder where the rest (the other 5 Marines) is. Are they on vacation? Hardly. Devastator Squads consist out of 10 Marines, not only 5. Take advantage of Battle Squads. I represent my Devastators with a 5 Marines Heavy weapon squad and an additional 5 Marines Tactical squad. The tactical arm is painted like Devastators but counts for army purpose as a tactical choice. It has no weapon options because it relys on the weapon options of the Devastator Squad. Only one Sergant is allowed to be in both Squads. The other Squad is lead by a Squad leader, a not modified Sergeant which makes him basically to one of the Marines. Painting represents this (e.g. only one red helmet in both squads).

 

Alternativly you could chose two Devastator Squads and only give them 2 heavy weapons each. You are not forced to take 4. Again, only one Sergeant altogether in both Squads. Painting should represent this.

 

Those guidelines do not make your forces stronger. But it makes it COOL! When you can win a battle with a force like this you are a true Blue Warrior. We win with a plan, not with cheating.

 

HAIL TO THE EMPEROR!

 

HimOnEarth

 

I respect your devotion to the codex, but I have to say the codex was written by GW, not Gulliman. So were the game rules. This makes for a very hard time sticking to it (or whatever your interpretation of it might be, anyway) whilst still winning games. The cold fact of the matter is that 10 man squads are not cost-effective enough when compared to a 6 or 7 man squad and that each marine is not adequately represented by his stat line. 10 man squads should be good, massed bolter fire should be devastating, but this doesn't mean it is (and I know I'm going to get loads of people saying "oh, but it is! I once did [something highly improbable] with my bolters which means that they are always good!" but I've heard them before and my opinion didn't change...am I arrogant or did they just not present a good enough argument? You decide, as I know you will).

 

I do like Ultramarines and consider them a fine chapter (and an even finer legion! Those were the days...) but to restrict yourself so much is asking for trouble. Maybe a member of the squad is crewing their rhino, whilst another is gunning on a predator or something: under ideal circumstances, squads are regrouped as close to 10 man as possible, but circumstances are usually far from ideal.

 

Anyway, If you enjoy playing like this, keep at it! It's your choice, after all. I just prefer a little more tactical flexibility, as I feel that this represents the character of the Ultramarines better than haw many men are in a squad. What is more Ultramarine: an adaptable and highly capable force, able to achieve any mission against any foe or a lot of ten man squads who are there simply to be ten man squads like the codex says? That's my take on it anyway.

 

Sorry if I brushed anybody up the wrong way, but hey, my speech is as free as anyone elses, right? Till next time...

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

Actually, I would like to outline some other "self-made" guidelines for my army selection. Although I do not watch them as necessary part of army creation like the ones i outlined above I use them in general as long as I do not deploy with Drop Pods or I am restricted in any other form of scenario limitation.

 

Every Squad has its own transport capacity. It is just ridiculous to think that infantry would not take advantage of APCs in the 40th Millenium. This is the reason why I always have a bad feeling about taking Dreadnoughts, they LOOK so slow in comparison to all the Marines in tanks.

 

In addition I try to rely on Battle Company forces only, e.g. no scouts, no terminators, no heavy support other than Devastators. You might say that this restricts my army very much and hurts. and yes, it does. But it is REALLY cool when you can say: This is 4th Company only.

 

A typical 1500 pts army consists out of:

 

Tactical Squad (10M) with Rhino

Tactical Squad (10M) with Rhino

Tactical Squad (5M) with RB

Devastator Squad (5M) with RB

Bike Squadron (5M) incl. Trike (Attack Bike)

Landspeeder Squadron

Captain

 

This army is really powerful. It may look like like a lame duck, but is all but lame. Tactical troops, when deployed correctly, will achieve every task you designate them to.

 

For tactical aspects: There are two tactics I agree to. One is the SSAdA and the other is the AdSAS tactic. S is standing for supress (basically shoot them to pieces; Ad means advance and A is for Attack). My fundamental believe is that movement and initative are the key to victory. It doesn't matter if you are outnumbered, who you face. Be active, as long as you have the initiative you win. Move and chose your own battleground, make your rules to the rules of battle. Do not defend. When you try to "hold" you have already lost because you expect the other to win. We are Marines, attack is best defence!

 

The Shadow Guard

 

Talk about battle doctrines being similar. I do very similarly, although as you may have seen in another thread I haven't played for almost 12 months. My force basically moves to force the enemy to respond to my maneuvres and I am never reluctant to pull back if necessary.

 

My 1500 point army basically consists of five 6 man squads. Now this may be abhorrent to someone schooled on the Codex Astartes, but it reflects the DA codex better. One squad is a command squad and all others have veteran sergeants with stubborn quality, power weapon and BP. Small squads are tailor made for the DA as with the stubborn upgrade they will never break, hence overcome the main disadvantage of sall squads. All squads are also loaded on razorbacks, which are the squads HW. Therefore all squads can move and fire all their weapons, which keeps in with their fluff on mechanised mobile warfare. The two other units I have are the Whirlwind and the vindicator, the later is soon going to become a sabre (rhino with battlecannon) for stand off firepower.

 

When it goes to 2000 points, in comes my LRC with a 10 man jump pack-less assault squad led by either a chaplain or librarian (whichever takes my fancy) and the command squad apo & tech may join them!

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

Brother Marine, do not understand me wrong! When your forces depoly in 6 men squads it is absolutly ok to me. The codex is written and my personal rule because I decided to paint them blue, those Marines I got centuries ago. I just condemn the abuse of the codex in face of the background. If you create your own background you have my whole heartedly support! I hate the process of thinking which goes like this: "25% of 7 is still below two, therefore it must be 8 so do not need a take a break test with 2 combat loses!". But if you make up your own background it is most honorable whatever you do as long as you have another explanation then pure opportunity to take advantage from.

 

When you create your own chapter it is completly up to you how you balance it.

 

Scriptor Valorous

 

I HAVE to point out again:

 

- Chose the army you like and stick to its background

- Stick to the background of your chapter

- do not abuse the codex (any codex) in favor of "legal" advantage while you know that it is interferring with the background

- build a theme army

- devastate the enemy

- pray to Him, at least three times a day, and you will see you will win

This a recipe for disaster. You are advocating intentionally hamstringing your army because some codex from the last edition lists rules that are no longer applicable.

 

Follow this advise and all you'll get is a losing record.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a nice army that follows the rules and wins games. That's one of the coolest things about Ultramarines, even a competitive list is inherently un-cheesy.

 

Be a proud Ultramarine player, but do us all the honor of being a winning Ultramarine player

[KingPerson]

am new to this and went out and bought a complete company

 

You are NEW and you got a whole company, just like that? Wow...took me 4 years and its not yet done (paintwise)

 

I'd like to see it finished...

[Brother Michael]

again

 

I LOVE my termies!!although seeing a fully painted company would be interesting...

[KingPerson]

You could always do a 1st company and use the deathwing rules...

[Narceron]

do not sully your ultras with deathcompany rules, or any other chapter but big blue, LOL.

 

I have a pretty full company, 4 tac, 2 dev, 2 assault, and 2 scout. Ok, i know the scouts don't go in with the 3rd company, or any other, but I needed snipers and shotguns(somethings, you just need).

 

I field all of my tacs in rhinos and I usually take a dread. I have a cool landraider, but I only have it for termies, and so far, I've never played them. I don't believe in heavy tanks like the pred or whirlwind, mostly because I like to think of my force as being able to fight anywhere(ok, the rhinos are an esception, but i love rhinos). They can go on deserts, cities, space craft, hive ships(die tyranid, die), anywhere really.

 

As far as HQ goes, I have to say I like my Librarian Narcerus, he's got lightening claws, a halo, a jump pack and sometimes a purity seal. He joins up with one of my assault squads and just hams it up.

 

I guess if I was new to the game, I'd get a cheap commander and just concentrate on the infantry, they win more games. Currently, the HQ can be a hth monster, but hopefully we'll get away from that in the new hth rules.

 

Courage and Honor!

[kakobobo]

How dare you mix the noble Deathwing with the heretical Khorne Ber,I mean Death Company? J/K

[Koronius]

HEY! dont joke about that! The Blood Angels are the Most loyal Chapter to The Emperor, and if u say no... :blink: ** Draws his Power Sword ** hehehehe... you get the point.... btw, I am Proud to be a Blood Angel, and if anybody has anything to say... I'd like to see them say it to my Vet Assault squad, Death company and 6 dreads after they've all raged and charged headlong into u :huh: :huh: :D

[INKS]

Hmm personally I don't see a problem with using the DW rules for ultra's? I mean for the most part.

[40kenthus]

The thing is, if you want to have a specific company out on the battlefield there are ways of doing it. Companies 2-5 being the easiest since the Force Organization Chart seemes to be almost modeled off of the battle companies.

 

The first company can be done in 2 ways. The first is by doing Deathwing, but that only allows for whole terminator armies. The other way to do it is to have all your tactical squads painted up like veterans, have your assault squads painted like veterans without jump packs, to represent the hth vets without termie honors, and termies and vets with termie honors acting as the elites.

 

The 6th company can actually be done in 3 ways. The first is to not have any assault squads, and make your fast attack all bikes, and your devastators as tactical squads minus the special weapon. Another way to do it is to use the white scars rules so you can do the full bike + tactical company that the 6th is supposed to be. And the final way is to use ravenwing.

 

The 7th company can be done in 2 ways. The first similar to the first for the 6th company except landspeeders instead of bike squads, or you can use Ravenwing rules.

 

There really isn't a way to accurately do the 8th company yet, but my guess is that the Ravenguard IA will provide for that.

 

The 9th company like the 8th company has no real way of being done, considering you can only have 1 heavy weapon per tactical squad, which really hinders things.

 

The 10th company can be done, but not nicely. Basically except for your HQ, use only scout units and tanks.

[kakobobo]

Well I don't think Tanks are very good for recon. Kinda loud.

[KingPerson]

I must have been under the influence of chaos when I posted the thing about the deathwing even being half as good as needed to represent Ultramarine Terminators.

 

I will now proceed to the intorrigation chamber where I shall complete 10 pages of Chemistry homework as punishment.