Some thoughts on the Lost Company

[spyrer2000]

A note about Animal Rage - it takes place at the beginning of the Movement Phase. Thus, you can line up your Wulfen behind some cover. Next turn, the Animal Rage should carry the Wulfen most or all of the way through the intervening terrain without too much trouble before you even have to roll the dice for a difficult terrain check. Unfortunately, it also means you have to move the Wulfen first before any other unit every turn - a slight drawback.

[The WarpGhost]

A note about Animal Rage - it takes place at the beginning of the Movement Phase. Thus, you can line up your Wulfen behind some cover. Next turn, the Animal Rage should carry the Wulfen most or all of the way through the intervening terrain without too much trouble before you even have to roll the dice for a difficult terrain check. Unfortunately, it also means you have to move the Wulfen first before any other unit every turn - a slight drawback.

 

incorrect; you make the normal move then add the extra D6". it all balances out tho as it means you will move into terrrain at the end of your move without needing to roll difficult terrain if your normal 6" wont reach it.

[spyrer2000]

That is what I meant, I just didn't say it very well. Thanks for clearing that up, WarpGhost.

[The WarpGhost]

no problem :)

[Mountain Angel]

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Okay s2k... I'll take your word for MTC. I am going to go back and edit the post about normal movement.

 

Thanks!

 

:)

 

-MA

[Mountain Angel]

-Fleet of Paw

This special movement rule only applies to Fenrisian wolf packs. You can roll an extra d6 inches of movement during the shooting phase for each wolf pack. The number one objective for the wolf packs are to charge the enemy during the first turn if possible. The use of this rule has already been covered in great detail earlier.

 

 

Next -> Teleporting (The Gate)

 

 

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NOTE: As this V4 tactica article is coming to and end soon pls be aware that I am planning to port all this text to a nice webpage as reference material for the Lost Company.

 

:)

 

-MA

[spyrer2000]

Fleet is twice as nice since that movement ignores difficult terrain.

[fatp3nguin]

Hm, a bit of an OT question, but I was wondering how harmful is the being hit on a 3+ from MotW against hordes? It seems very painful, like 30 slugga boys hitting on a 3+ *wince*. Yet everyone is so set on MotWing everything :) . Is there something I'm missing?

[spyrer2000]

There's a section in my 13th company tactica that addresses this very point.

MOTW is usually very good, but against some opponents, it's not so good. Any horde that has massive numbers of attacks at high Initiative (Hormagaunts, Genestealers, furious charging Khorne Bezerkers) will tear up MOTW units much easier than non-MOTW units.

 

Also, of course, lots of low-WS opponents (Imperial Guard and Tau) will also benefit from MOTW when fighting a MOTW unit.

 

In the main, I think Tyranids are the army that a MOTW-heavy army needs to watch out for the most, followed by a Khorne Bezerker army, followed by Orks (although the Orks' low Initiative usually means you'll be swinging first anyways if you charge them).

[Mountain Angel]

-Mark of the Wulfen-

This is an expensive totem for both independent characters and pack leaders, but let's face it... this is the trademark item for the Lost Company. I take MotW for both my Wolf Lord, Rune Priest, and all pack leaders.

 

The three advantages are as follows:

 

- Fearless

- Always hit on 3+

- +d3 attacks each turn of close combat for the character

 

Being Fearless is a great boon for the army as they will take many a wound from incoming fire. You never have to worry about breaking in the heat of the battle. It also fits the theme for the Lost Company IMO.

 

Hitting and being hit on 3+ is more to our favour since our squads can generate a vast number of attacks in close combat... Slayers have three base attacks apiece, while Storm Claws have four attacks when they charge. Few other assault units can pour out these sheer numbers. Hitting on 3+ is a clear advantage since the Lost Company will typically have more hits to parcel out during assaults.

 

The extra d3 attacks each turn for our characters makes a huge difference... even if it only amounts to one extra attack. Our characters are armed with Frost weapons, powerfists, and thunder hammers. These extra attacks for pack leaders make a huge difference when it comes to destroying an enemy squad or causing more wounds, thus forcing the enemy to take a break check. Lost Company units should be able to charge a squad, quickly break them, and move on. Once you have engaged the enemy in close combat the tide of battle has swung in your favour!

A squad of Slayers lead by a pack leader with MotW and a thunder hammer can beat anything out there in close combat, including Greater Daemons and even C'tan. Independent characters are great at ravaging enemy fodder, but often their role is to eliminate enemy HQ... the extra attacks are a huge advantage in this regard.

 

There is only one disadvantage, barring the points:

 

- Always be hit on 3+ in close combat

MotW can hurt when you are fighting Khorne Berserkers with heavy chainaxes or Banshees. It is up to your overall knowledge of the game to lessen this disadvantage. For example, wel all know that Berzerkers are quite fast and want to engage in close combat as soon as possible. Space Wolves have the advantage here since we have Counter-Charge... set up in cover and wait for them. When they charge you will being hitting first or no worse than simultaneously, plus you will have your full number of attacks. Banshees do best in large numbers due to their low strength (S3)... shoot as many of them as possible when the opportunity presents itself.

[Mountain Angel]

-Teleporting (aka The Gate)

The ability to teleport a unit with several meltas is very powerful but requires skill to correctly pull off well. Some people have given up on the new deep strike rule with the advent of V4... however, how many Necron players do you know that have since stopped using the Veil of Darkness?

 

If your opponent is not prepared for this special movement then you stand a good chance to easily destroy some of his armour. If your opponent deploys in such a manner to attempt protecting his tanks then he has probably not placed them in the best tactical positions. So either way using The Gate is going to throw a big monkeigh wrench into your opponent's best laid plans.

 

I typically teleport three or more times a game. I like to first teleport in with all the melta toting Slayers, blow up some tanks, then teleport back for the plasma toting Slayers and hose down closeby enemy troopers. I aggressively use The Gate and most often it has paid off.

 

Here is a simple diagram showing the alighment of the combined unit's bases when teleporting:

 

http://warp-space.net/Gate.jpg

 

The black circle represents the Rune Priest. The grey circles represent the first Slayers, which are placed in base contact with the Rune Priest. The red circles represent the last four Slayers, which are placed in base contact with the first six Slayers. Finally each empty circle represents one inch and helps you visualize how close you can place the combined unit beside an enemy vehicle.

 

You should be able to place your full squad of Grey Slayers in two circles (as shown above) around the Rune Priest when teleporting the combined unit. If you place the Rune Priest six inches away (1/2 range for meltaguns) from the target you wish to shoot and he has teleported with a full squad of Slayers then the maximum separation distance between the closest model to the object is two inches assuming there is no scatter. Therefore, a good rule of thumb is to place the Rune Priest nine inches away from the target object - there is a slighter chance of drifting over the enemy unit and the majority of your meltaguns should be at 1/2 range.

 

It's much easier to teleport beside one enemy tank rather than between two. I think this where many players are having problems. It all comes down to placement. There is not much you can do about rolling boxcars, but then again the odds are rather low.

 

 

Next -> Turbo-Boost

[Bloodwraith]

I do believe you're in violation of the forum rules by posting the rules for special rules, which i understand you're not allowed to do.

 

I see you haven't covered the footsloggers army and i also see you haven't outlined the best combination of gear for a wolf lord with is wolftooth necklace, frostblade, thunderhammer and belt o russ.

 

Another thing, why do you advocate giving the pack leader a powerfist? When for a few more points you can give him a thunderhammer which is far more effective?

 

I think a rune priest is far too expensive to have him play taxi the whole game. My preferred method is to wait until my wolves have closed on his lines (where possible) before gating in and sorting out armour. Either that or gate in a squad where they are not in danger of being shot at (i.e. in a place where my fenrisian wolves are blocking LOS through combat.) Long fangs with meltaguns and gate are awesome :P

[spyrer2000]

Bloodwraith, it's difficult for me to find something in your post that I don't disagree with.

 

Why does the Wolf Lord's "best combination of gear" include a thunderhammer? The way that casualty selection works and the way that "who is engaged?" is recalculated at each Initiative step, handing Initiative 1 weapons to Independent Characters is in no way, shape, or form a good idea in 40K V4.

 

I disagree that a thunderhammer is "far more effective" than a powerfist for just a few more points. It's marginally more effective vs. vehicles and somewhat more effecive vs. Toughness 5+ multi-Wound models. IMHO, paying an extra 5 points for those benefits isn't a no-brainer... I have one pack leader with a thunderhammer in my army, the rest all carry powerfists. Why? Because powerfists are more cost-effective. The points I save in taking "just" powerfists I use to get more power armored bodies on the field.

 

Wolf Tooth Necklace for a 13th Company Wolf Lord? Why not just take the far more effective Mark of the Wulfen instead?

 

Long Fangs with meltaguns and The Gate CAN be awesome, but they are just as likely to end up as a suicide squad and easy Victory Points for your opponent.

 

...on the other hand, if your intent was simply to ask MA to explain his advice in more detail, that's understandable. The other stuff in your post just makes me say "Wha-huh?"

[DepthCharge]

There's no violation going on here. The rules mentioned are mentioned here soley for the purposes of discussion, and he doesn't post them verbatim, nor does he post the points costs. Should be fine, if I'm reading this correctly...

[Mountain Angel]

-

Bloodwraith

 

I don't have time to go through all my tactica and show you quotes that can easily counter what you have said... such as the thunder hammer. :P I suggest you read everything again before opening mouth and inserting yer foot... paw... whatever. Sheesh!

 

-(Speshul rules... that was a good one ^_^ )

[sdfmacross2]

HaHa BloodWraith got clowned on. Droppin Pods on your moms foo. JK :P Well if you actually think gating long fangs is good then go ahead. That is like the worst idea. I say we have a pole and see if Bloodwraith is right?

[Mountain Angel]

-

He jumped right in with both feet.

 

:P

 

-MA

[BROTHER GRIMSKULL]

Sorry to interrupt your work Brother MA, but just a q. Where can I find the fleet of paw rule for fen. wolves. I am not looking at my EOT codex, but to my recollection, I do not remember seeing that rule there. Was there any change to the wolves and dangerous terrain tests. Once again, apologies for my ignorance.

 

 

Praise Russ

[Mountain Angel]

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Pls refer to the new V4 rulebook section on movement for calvary.

 

-MA

[BROTHER GRIMSKULL]

Many thanks, as for the dangerous terrain tests, wolves will still die on a 1??? Please tell me there was a change to this.

 

 

 

Praise Russ

[spyrer2000]

Beasts and Cavalry don't roll dangerous terrain tests in difficult terrain. Pretty much only Bikes and Jump Infantry have to worry about that (and even then, it's just a Wound now, so multi-Wound models can survive a failed dangerous terrain test).

[BROTHER GRIMSKULL]

Just one more question that I'm sure has been answered, yet I fail to find that answer. In the EOT codex it states bike packs can not use the 13co scout army rule. Yet I'm reading many tacticas stating that they can scout. Where may I find this in wrighting?? My regular opponents want to see it all in wrighting from a valid source (ie GW). Once again apologies, I am making the transition to the 13th co and am trying to get it all down u kno. Thanks again Wolf Brothers

 

 

 

Praise Russ

[spyrer2000]

The application of the Scouts rule to all units in the 13th Company army is a big debate and one that MA probably doesn't want to get into in this thread. I suggest you use searchy-skull and look for a thread started by me a while back called "13th Company Rules" and take a look through that discussion.

[Bloodwraith]

Why does the Wolf Lord's "best combination of gear" include a thunderhammer? The way that casualty selection works and the way that "who is engaged?" is recalculated at each Initiative step, handing Initiative 1 weapons to Independent Characters is in no way, shape, or form a good idea in 40K V4.

The reason he has a frostblade and a thunderhammer is to make him flexible. The reason i use these two weapons is because they are IMHO the best weaponry for a lord. The frostblade is good for chopping up troops and the thunderhammer gives +1 attack. What happens when you run into a dreadnought or armour or something? then you use the thunderhammer and the frostblade confers +1 attack. Combine that with a wolftooth necklace and a belt of russ and its gold.

 

I disagree that a thunderhammer is "far more effective" than a powerfist for just a few more points. It's marginally more effective vs. vehicles and somewhat more effecive vs. Toughness 5+ multi-Wound models. IMHO, paying an extra 5 points for those benefits isn't a no-brainer... I have one pack leader with a thunderhammer in my army, the rest all carry powerfists. Why? Because powerfists are more cost-effective. The points I save in taking "just" powerfists I use to get more power armored bodies on the field.

 

You can disagree all you like, but i have been playing the 13th company since it came out, what i stated is from my experience. A thunderhammer is far more effective, especially against big creatures, or multiwound characters. A powerfist is more cost effective but not as versatile.

 

Wolf Tooth Necklace for a 13th Company Wolf Lord? Why not just take the far more effective Mark of the Wulfen instead?

Because for the cost of one MoTW i can equip 3 characters with a wolftooth necklace which is more effective then one character. You'll argue about the benefits to the squad and i guess i can't really agree as my main opponents are orks and nids mainly and i really don't want orks hitting me on 3+ especially choppas.

 

Everything i said was from my own personal experience, but then i have a completely unorthodox play style, so meh.

 

-

He jumped right in with both feet.

 

I'm a space wolf what do you expect?

 

HaHa BloodWraith got clowned on. Droppin Pods on your moms foo. JK

What in the hell is that supposed to mean? and that was really constructive :P

 

Well if you actually think gating long fangs is good then go ahead. That is like the worst idea. 

 

Like i said my play style is unorthodox but i have never had a problem with gating long fangs. That could just be me though.

 

Oh and by the way i don't really appreciate the fact that you jump on me for expressing my opinion. I have not done this to you, so maybe you could extend me the same courtesy huh? I was just adding a few things i think you missed from my own experiences of finding them really effective. However you probably haven't played with these things i suggested so don't worry about it.

[XxunderOATHxX]

There should not, should not, should not be any debate on the rules for Bikers and Scouts. Bikes cannot use the Scout move before a game starts. The proof is evident in the FAQ.

 

"Independent Characters mounted on Space Marine Bikes lose the Scout ability.

 

All of the Space Wolves Independent Characters comes with the Scout ability. If you take a Space Marine Bike, the presence of this wargear will remove this ability. So from cause and effect, we know that the reason for a certain character's Scout ability being lost is because of the option of taking a Space Marine Bike. Therefore, the Space Marine Bike is the contributor to the loss of the Scout ability for any models equipped with it and so should not be able to Scout.

 

Also, the Character itself counts as an infantry. The fact that you can take the wargear option "Space Marine Bike" does not change the type of model it is. It is still an infantry, but it is mounted on a bike. With this in mind, you treat the Biker as an infantry, but you follow additional rules for the Space Marine Bike. So we can safely say that Space Marine Bike rules do not replace infantry rules, but instead is an add-on to it.

 

So...the same rules apply for the Storm Claws Bike Pack. The troops are infantry mounted on bikes, and the bikes are an accessory to the troops. So Storm Claws Bike Packs CANNOT use the Scout ability.

 

My final comparison is with the beginning quote.

 

"Independent Characters mounted on Space Marine Bikes lose the Scout ability.

 

Now read pg. 53 of the rulebook, first paragraph. I quote:

"Troops mounted on bikes....etc."

 

Like I stated, infantry are mounted onto bikes. Both the wording for the two quotes have the same statement. ".....mounted on bikes" So if Characters mounted on bikes lose the Scout ability, then Troops mounted on bikes lose the Scout ability.